RugbyRebels

Epaminondas Pules wrote:You would think so, which likely means JJ to the bench and if not JJ stays on the wing and Malin's keeps his place on the bench. I've got an inkling for a 6/2 split on this one. There is enough versatility in the backs to cover any injury, or loss of player (barring three injuries).

Nah, that's just a chance for Earl to show off his "winger" skills. Jones is all for his versatility. He might even name him in the 23 shirt just to screw with people. Then bring him on at 8. jngf will love that.

p/d wrote:Am I missing something.............when did Coka suddenly appear as an option

Yes

Oakboy wrote:

p/d wrote:

Puja wrote:
He trained with England last week and he's in the squad currently.

Puja

Ah, I did not know that.

Be nice to see him make the bench

Going back to the adage of picking who your opponents would like least, he is hell of a bench option.

Not in his current state. Much like I would like George North to start for Wales, poor fella

Stom wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:You would think so, which likely means JJ to the bench and if not JJ stays on the wing and Malin's keeps his place on the bench. I've got an inkling for a 6/2 split on this one. There is enough versatility in the backs to cover any injury, or loss of player (barring three injuries).

Nah, that's just a chance for Earl to show off his "winger" skills. Jones is all for his versatility. He might even name him in the 23 shirt just to screw with people. Then bring him on at 8. jngf will love that.[/quote]

Whilst you’re correct that I wouldn’t exactly be jumping for joy at seeing Earl at 8 it would still be a hell of an improvement on T Curry being in that role!

fivepointer wrote:Real pity Lawrence has to miss out. Marler and probably Willis to miss out on the final 23. Can't see the starting pack changing.

Either Ford or Joseph to the bench i imagine. Malins retained so that at least is good news.

Yep. Wouldn’t be surprised if both Malins and Watson were benched though. From that mob I’d go
Robson, Ford, Daly, Slade, JJ, May, Watson. Bench Youngs, Faz, Malins. But that’s me and it has weaknesses

Peej wrote:You do wonder why Malins is retained though if Eddie has both Farrell and Ford to cover 10, and Daly and Watson to cover 15.

This is not to say he shouldn't be, I think he should be involved far more. It just seems strange to overload on certain positions to the detriment of others. Lawrence is probably not going to make it, so behind Slade who is the next cab off the rank for 13? We arguably lost a 13 to Wales because of this lack of depth testing.

Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Stom wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:You would think so, which likely means JJ to the bench and if not JJ stays on the wing and Malin's keeps his place on the bench. I've got an inkling for a 6/2 split on this one. There is enough versatility in the backs to cover any injury, or loss of player (barring three injuries).

Nah, that's just a chance for Earl to show off his "winger" skills. Jones is all for his versatility. He might even name him in the 23 shirt just to screw with people. Then bring him on at 8. jngf will love that.

Nah he'll bring Earl into centre as Robson will be the wing cover. Earl hitting lines at 12 off of Ford could work nicely. Knowing our luck that would probably mean Farrell at 13 though...

Banquo wrote:

Peej wrote:You do wonder why Malins is retained though if Eddie has both Farrell and Ford to cover 10, and Daly and Watson to cover 15.

This is not to say he shouldn't be, I think he should be involved far more. It just seems strange to overload on certain positions to the detriment of others. Lawrence is probably not going to make it, so behind Slade who is the next cab off the rank for 13? We arguably lost a 13 to Wales because of this lack of depth testing.

Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Peej wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Peej wrote:You do wonder why Malins is retained though if Eddie has both Farrell and Ford to cover 10, and Daly and Watson to cover 15.

This is not to say he shouldn't be, I think he should be involved far more. It just seems strange to overload on certain positions to the detriment of others. Lawrence is probably not going to make it, so behind Slade who is the next cab off the rank for 13? We arguably lost a 13 to Wales because of this lack of depth testing.

Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Did Daly not play the last few minutes at 13 last Saturday?

Peej wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Peej wrote:You do wonder why Malins is retained though if Eddie has both Farrell and Ford to cover 10, and Daly and Watson to cover 15.

This is not to say he shouldn't be, I think he should be involved far more. It just seems strange to overload on certain positions to the detriment of others. Lawrence is probably not going to make it, so behind Slade who is the next cab off the rank for 13? We arguably lost a 13 to Wales because of this lack of depth testing.

Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Well yes, but as Manu has spent nearly all his career at 13 it’s fair to say he adds some depth there, just as Slade hasn’t suddenly lost his ability to play there. Daly has filled in a lot at 13, not sure about starting.

So we have 3 x 13s with 30 + caps in that position when Manu is fit, Marchant and to some extent Daly who are very good there, and an apprentice in Dingwall. And Lawrence. I don’t see Eddie has created an issue there, save picking the right horse for the right course.

Far more energised about 9 and 12 tbh.

Oakboy wrote:

Peej wrote:

Banquo wrote: Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Did Daly not play the last few minutes at 13 last Saturday?

Yep and not for the first time.

Banquo wrote:

Peej wrote:

Banquo wrote: Er JJ, Marchant, Lawrence, and Manu eventually with it also being Daly’s preferred position. And Dingwall has trained with them. We have good depth at 13. Tompkins might have served us ok at 12 though- but he’s even benched for Wales.(is that who you mean?)

Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Well yes, but as Manu has spent nearly all his career at 13 it’s fair to say he adds some depth there, just as Slade hasn’t suddenly lost his ability to play there. Daly has filled in a lot at 13, not sure about starting.

So we have 3 x 13s with 30 + caps in that position when Manu is fit, Marchant and to some extent Daly who are very good there, and an apprentice in Dingwall. And Lawrence. I don’t see Eddie has created an issue there, save picking the right horse for the right course.

Far more energised about 9 and 12 tbh.

The problem with that is...who?

I mean, Robson has moved into 2nd place at last, but Spencer is okay, Mitchell is...okay, Randall is Welsh, Maunder isn't playing, Taylor is a kid...Care is out of the picture and not strong enough on defence...

And at 12, there's Devoto who is perma-crocked, Mallinder who has been injured and we don't know what colour he is after coming back, and, err...Francis...yeah...

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Peej wrote:
Bizarrely in my head I had for some reason thought Manu was playing 12 a lot, after Eddie said he saw him as a 12 really. I'll give you Marchant as well, as I'd forgotten about him. Fair dos.

Has Daly ever started a game at 13 for England, or even been moved there mid-match? I can't recall one.

Well yes, but as Manu has spent nearly all his career at 13 it’s fair to say he adds some depth there, just as Slade hasn’t suddenly lost his ability to play there. Daly has filled in a lot at 13, not sure about starting.

So we have 3 x 13s with 30 + caps in that position when Manu is fit, Marchant and to some extent Daly who are very good there, and an apprentice in Dingwall. And Lawrence. I don’t see Eddie has created an issue there, save picking the right horse for the right course.

Far more energised about 9 and 12 tbh.

The problem with that is...who?

I mean, Robson has moved into 2nd place at last, but Spencer is okay, Mitchell is...okay, Randall is Welsh, Maunder isn't playing, Taylor is a kid...Care is out of the picture and not strong enough on defence...

And at 12, there's Devoto who is perma-crocked, Mallinder who has been injured and we don't know what colour he is after coming back, and, err...Francis...yeah...

Hence energised (as in, not much choice that I like) The original point was about planning leading to a lack of options, and its a mix of planning (Heinz!) and lack of options as you point out. Though Slade could have been tried at 12 before.

Maunder is playing, just not very well. Mallinder never an option at 12 for me either. There is Redpath, and I believe Dingwall was lining up there v the Baa baas.

So there are things that could have been done before, but not especially compelling ones. Key point really is that 13 is by no means the biggest or even second biggest of problems.

Is that Harry Randall who was born in England to English parents and with four English grandparents? He qualifies for Wales as his family moved there when he was a kid, but he is English and even as recent as last month said he's English.

Oh and Maunder is the starting for Exeter.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Is that Harry Randall who was born in England to English parents and with four English grandparents? He qualifies for Wales as his family moved there when he was a kid, but he is English and even as recent as last month said he's English.

Oh and Maunder is the starting for Exeter.

I thought he'd been poached?

Nah. He does qualify for Wales, and his family still live there, but he's proper English and at present isn't tied to anyone.

He did play for Wales U16 & U18, as he was at school there. At that level it usually comes down to where your school is as opposed to nationality.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Nah. He does qualify for Wales, and his family still live there, but he's proper English and at present isn't tied to anyone.

He did play for Wales U16 & U18, as he was at school there. At that level it usually comes down to where your school is as opposed to nationality.

Just looked it up, I could have sworn he was called up...my bad.

12 is still a big problem area, though. A big problem area...

Stom wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Nah. He does qualify for Wales, and his family still live there, but he's proper English and at present isn't tied to anyone.

He did play for Wales U16 & U18, as he was at school there. At that level it usually comes down to where your school is as opposed to nationality.

Just looked it up, I could have sworn he was called up...my bad.

12 is still a big problem area, though. A big problem area...

So is 9 and likely more important the way we play at the mo. Until we see, say Randall, we don’t know. Robson has underwhelmed-ish for me so far, but that’s very harsh

Stom wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Nah. He does qualify for Wales, and his family still live there, but he's proper English and at present isn't tied to anyone.

He did play for Wales U16 & U18, as he was at school there. At that level it usually comes down to where your school is as opposed to nationality.

Just looked it up, I could have sworn he was called up...my bad.

12 is still a big problem area, though. A big problem area...

No worries. And apols if I came across a bit on a knob, am on a Webex and being sold to by Cisco, so wanted to take it out on someone.

And agreed. I'm hoping we get Redpath in and have a proper look at him. He loos the best shout at the moment. To me anyway. Even looking at the age grade levels 12 is probably the position with least exciting prospects.

12 might have been less a problem area if we had taken the chance to have a proper look at Johnny Williams when we had the option. Jones went for Piers Francis instead....

fivepointer wrote:12 might have been less a problem area if we had taken the chance to have a proper look at Johnny Williams when we had the option. Jones went for Piers Francis instead....

To be fair at the time that was probably a bit of a coin toss, with Francis having age and a bit more experience than Johnny. I really like Johnny ad am sad to see him playing for Wales, but it wasn't an obvious choice.

Based on Premiership form there was no contest. Williams was clearly the better player, and was far less injury prone.

Jones missed a trick ignoring Williams.

Wasn't Williams just as injury prone? If not more

2017/18
- Francis played 21 games (1,364 minutes)
- Williams played 16 (1,150)

2018/19
- Francis 23 games (1,402)
- Williams 17 games (1,109)

Not doing the 2019/20 stats as he was diagnosed with cancer after the 2019 season.

There were a couple seasons where he was available and in good nick, but then of course he missed a lot due to his illness.

I'm sure there was some media chat about Randall and Wales earlier this year.

He was sounded out by Pivac apparently, but evidently it didn't go anywhere solid, IF it did happen at all. There was also a few interviews with him from Wales Online and others.