RugbyRebels

Raggs wrote:Wasps were missing first choice ( and quite often 2nd choice too) in 1,4,5,6,8,9,10,12,13,15 which isn't ideal.

Are you really missing your first choice 12 when Gopperth is available?

Similar at Tigers. 1, 4, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14 all out so not quite as bad. The back ups for most of the positions are also hit particularly at loosehead and hooker. Things should improve with more players coming clear of the Covid outbreak and back into training as well. I think quite a few teams are struggling at the minute.

Is it 5 now 6 call ups for Wasps? Tigers have had 6 from go and the two Pumas would have been had they not been injured.

Gopperth at 10 is not the same as having him at 12. If mills was fit perhaps we can argue a bit more about the drop off.

Launch, Willis, Robson, Umaga, Barbeary, Minozzi, Rowlands all on international duty. Don't think zhavania got called up. Then a lot of injuries on top. Call ups can be covered by rotation but combined with injuries it's tough. Especially now we've picked up a few more i believe.

jngf wrote:Woki and Macalou are a frighteningly skilful back up pair of flankers for France to call upon. Against Italy the former had a good all court game and the latter whilst only given one real chance to show his attacking prowess and gas, did make it count with an eleventh hour try - this guy’s got the gifts of Itoje and Croft combined!

Unfortunately Macalou couldn't grab two balls out of three...

If he is in the mood he might indeed surprise you rosbifs, but it remains to be seen

I think what I've just said might sound a bit peculiar... ah well..

lol

Peej wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Peej wrote:Also, Wasps are being put in a challenging position losing their first choice 10 and their star back row and super sub for part of the week when they desperately need to sort their shit following a terrible performance

If only they had a couple of pricey experienced Kiwi playmakers. One of whom is on a small fortune of a salary and has 18 AB caps.

Injuries seem to be doing most the damage to Wasps but they aren't alone in that. Tigers could have really done with Genge last weekend, they wouldn't have struggled in the first half scrums Vs LI with him. Being forced to start 5th choice loosehead Bower didn't help anything.

True. But even having a 2001-vintage Wilkinson would mean fuck all if you don't have a pack that can you win you any ball

Wilkson has played in some Newcastle games going back playing behind a pack going backwards quickly and totally changed the game. So you can do it, albeit it's very unlikely even if you've got star quality at 10

27 players retained for the weekend:
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 46 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 87 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 71 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 4 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 60 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 6 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 45 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 103 caps)

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 27 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 53 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 42 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 68 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 7 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 55 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)

BARBEARY DROPPED!!!!!!!!

I imagine it will be one out of Marchant or Lawrence to be left out or the final 23.

Up front there is LHP and a lock to trim, plus a back rower.

fivepointer wrote:BARBEARY DROPPED!!!!!!!!

I imagine it will be one out of Marchant or Lawrence to be left out or the final 23.

Up front there is LHP and a lock to trim, plus a back rower.

Or Malins...

I think we'll either see something similar to last time, but with Marchant replacing Joseph, or Lawrence replacing Slade, or both. Or we'll see Watson replacing Joseph and Marchant on the bench, again: Slade vs Lawrence.

In the pack, it's a shootout between Marler and Genge, while surely Ewels will miss out...and I reckon 6:2 will be back.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lawrence again, we aren't getting rid of Farrell at 12 so might as well have someone that will fix a defender on one occasion over the 80*


*seconds that he gets from the bench

Hill, Willis, Genge and Marchant going home I reckon. Or Stuart instead of Genge so that Marler can play LH ¬.¬

O certainly hope Ewels is sent back to Bath. I'd much rather have the three locks we've been using in the squad. If we're rotating then give Hill another start, his set piece skillset might be more beneficial against France.

I hope Lawrence starts so that Ford has an actual backline to use this week.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell (I'd prefer Slade though)
13. Lawrence
14. Marchant
15. Daly (I'd like to see Malins given a go though)

If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

I'd be surprised if Watson does not start. I suspect that Jones will pick him instead of Joseph as the only change in the starting backs.

FKAS wrote:If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

That's an interesting idea. Basically have May and Daly as floating strike runners going from side-to-side?

Puja

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

That's an interesting idea. Basically have May and Daly as floating strike runners going from side-to-side?

Puja

And would work very nicely with Watson back at FB and Daly on the wing...

I like it! Definitely sounds like an excellent way of utilising the players we have.

Oakboy might have found his next England coach. Provided FKAS is under 45 of course ...

Oakboy wrote:I'd be surprised if Watson does not start. I suspect that Jones will pick him instead of Joseph as the only change in the starting backs.

Farrell back at 10, Lawrence in and Ford to bench.

Hopefully Watson at fb and Daly wing (won’t happen.)
Joseph out

FKAS wrote:O certainly hope Ewels is sent back to Bath. I'd much rather have the three locks we've been using in the squad. If we're rotating then give Hill another start, his set piece skillset might be more beneficial against France.

I hope Lawrence starts so that Ford has an actual backline to use this week.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell (I'd prefer Slade though)
13. Lawrence
14. Marchant
15. Daly (I'd like to see Malins given a go though)

If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

Watched Marchant play a few times during his stint in NZ. He did look a bit short of real pace, especially if considered as a wing.

FKAS wrote:O certainly hope Ewels is sent back to Bath. I'd much rather have the three locks we've been using in the squad. If we're rotating then give Hill another start, his set piece skillset might be more beneficial against France.

I hope Lawrence starts so that Ford has an actual backline to use this week.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell (I'd prefer Slade though)
13. Lawrence
14. Marchant
15. Daly (I'd like to see Malins given a go though)

If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

So have you picked Marchant as an all out wing, or on Eddies third centre/blindside wing continuity programme?

I'd certainly start Watson.

Scrumhead wrote:I like it! Definitely sounds like an excellent way of utilising the players we have.

Oakboy might have found his next England coach. Provided FKAS is under 45 of course ...

Just sack Jones and let us find his successor, you mean?

Scrumhead wrote:I like it! Definitely sounds like an excellent way of utilising the players we have.

Oakboy might have found his next England coach. Provided FKAS is under 45 of course ...

34. Though hiring a utility back that only played social level rugby and who has extremely limited experience coaching might raise some eyebrows. The one season I did coach the backs we were undefeated though that might have had something to do with us acquiring a 10 who should have been playing several leagues above to run said attack.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:O certainly hope Ewels is sent back to Bath. I'd much rather have the three locks we've been using in the squad. If we're rotating then give Hill another start, his set piece skillset might be more beneficial against France.

I hope Lawrence starts so that Ford has an actual backline to use this week.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell (I'd prefer Slade though)
13. Lawrence
14. Marchant
15. Daly (I'd like to see Malins given a go though)

If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

So have you picked Marchant as an all out wing, or on Eddies third centre/blindside wing continuity programme?

I'd certainly start Watson.

The continuity with the three centre policy. If we're going to play three centres then two strike runners is a necessity. Also Watson and May are two wingers that need space. Asking Lawrence to hold the midfield by himself might be a bit much particularly for this weekend as he'll no doubt be man marked by Danty who's a bit of a beast.

Now if we're talking drop Daly for Watson then I'm open to that.

I’ve always said England selection should be by way of RR committee. Given the need to inject some fun into test rugby during this unbelievably boring social distancing period, I think doing it on a rotational basis is the best logical step. At the very least, it should keep the players on their toes, especially when I recall Andy Gomarsall.

Mellsblue wrote:I’ve always said England selection should be by way of RR committee. Given the need to inject some fun into test rugby during this unbelievably boring social distancing period, I think doing it on a rotational basis is the best logical step. At the very least, it should keep the players on their toes, especially when I recall Andy Gomarsall.

Fifty years ago I would have responded with a phrase that would have included "lunatics" and "asylum"!

So many times have I read comments on this Forum, sadly including my own, so prejudiced that another saying has leapt to mind:

"Don't confuse me with the facts - my mind is made up!"

Mellsblue wrote:I’ve always said England selection should be by way of RR committee. Given the need to inject some fun into test rugby during this unbelievably boring social distancing period, I think doing it on a rotational basis is the best logical step. At the very least, it should keep the players on their toes, especially when I recall Andy Gomarsall.

I think that national teams everywhere should be selected by lottery of the whole population with 22 people randomly allocated. It would then give a fairer reflection of the country's sporting ability.

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I like it! Definitely sounds like an excellent way of utilising the players we have.

Oakboy might have found his next England coach. Provided FKAS is under 45 of course ...

34. Though hiring a utility back that only played social level rugby and who has extremely limited experience coaching might raise some eyebrows. The one season I did coach the backs we were undefeated though that might have had something to do with us acquiring a 10 who should have been playing several leagues above to run said attack.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:O certainly hope Ewels is sent back to Bath. I'd much rather have the three locks we've been using in the squad. If we're rotating then give Hill another start, his set piece skillset might be more beneficial against France.

I hope Lawrence starts so that Ford has an actual backline to use this week.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell (I'd prefer Slade though)
13. Lawrence
14. Marchant
15. Daly (I'd like to see Malins given a go though)

If Eddie is in to his hybrid theories (can't think of an LP sorry) then why don't we play left and right. Split the flyhalfs, forwards become the inside runners, centres (as we play three in effect though one's Farrell) split with the winger and fullback working round to the openside or splitting if we're in the middle of the park. Be a lot harder to defend and a lot harder to pressure the flyhalf when the inevitable kicking takes place.

So have you picked Marchant as an all out wing, or on Eddies third centre/blindside wing continuity programme?

I'd certainly start Watson.

The continuity with the three centre policy. If we're going to play three centres then two strike runners is a necessity. Also Watson and May are two wingers that need space. Asking Lawrence to hold the midfield by himself might be a bit much particularly for this weekend as he'll no doubt be man marked by Danty who's a bit of a beast.

Now if we're talking drop Daly for Watson then I'm open to that.

If we are to continue with three centres, then it needs a lot more thinking and prep from the coaching staff than currently. If you play Lawrence, I'd favour going back to a more conventional way forward, with Watson at 15. Personally, I like Daly as a wing, and if anyone could fulfil a third centre role its him . So you could do either with Ford, Daly, xxx, Lawrence, May, Watson.

Yep. Daly is the ideal candidate for that role, but I think Marchant is a bit underestimated. He really is a fantastic player, so I would be happy enough to see him get a proper opportunity rather than single-digit cameos.