RugbyRebels

Stom wrote:I'm going to be honest...

Perhaps it's the ridiculousness of this going ahead considering the situation.
Perhaps it's that it's the 3rd Gatland Lions tour and his rugby is just not a turn-on for me.
Perhaps it's the terrible scheduling.
Perhaps it's that the football is on at the same time for a change.

But I just can't get into this one.

Very similar. I normally love the Lions, but I'm not paying Sky to watch the games this time, especially since there's even odds on at least one of the tests being cancelled.

Puja

Another one here.
I didn't get round to watching the Japan game until this morning - I still haven't even looked at who's in the tour squad.


I'm not distracted by the football though. I've struggled to get into this season throughout, probably watched about a dozen matches between Prem, Champ cup and 6N

Which Tyler wrote:Another one here.
I didn't get round to watching the Japan game until this morning - I still haven't even looked at who's in the tour squad.


I'm not distracted by the football though. I've struggled to get into this season throughout, probably watched about a dozen matches between Prem, Champ cup and 6N

I can understand the latter if you're a Bath fan. And I started the season not watching, but after the New Year, Quins kinda guaranteed I'd start watching again, so I've watched the tail end of the season with great excitement.

and so another predictable public health experiment begins...

Big D wrote:Navidi and Beard in for Tipuric and Jones.

Murray captain.

Navidi’s a good player and was unlucky to miss initial call up - he’s not a like for like replacement for Tipuric though,much more of a 6.5 like Tom Curry

Increasingly fascinated as to how Gatland’s sees that Lions openside position

jngf wrote:

Big D wrote:Navidi and Beard in for Tipuric and Jones.

Murray captain.

Navidi’s a good player and was unlucky to miss initial call up - he’s not a like for like replacement for Tipuric though,much more of a 6.5 like Tom Curry

Increasingly fascinated as to how Gatland’s sees that Lions openside position

I think Garland is shitting it and wishing that he had picked Navidi and billy over Tipuric and Watson.

Beard is much more suitable to that pack than AWj. I think the issue is, there is no question how garland wants the lions to play. If it works he will be a legend, if it doesn’t there is no plan B.

I reckon SA will just take the physicality up another level and then wait for the stupid penalties to flow.

jngf wrote:

Big D wrote:Navidi and Beard in for Tipuric and Jones.

Murray captain.

Navidi’s a good player and was unlucky to miss initial call up - he’s not a like for like replacement for Tipuric though,much more of a 6.5 like Tom Curry

Increasingly fascinated as to how Gatland’s sees that Lions openside position

I am not sure it necessarily says much about the openside position. Underhill is concussed at the moment, Van der Flier isn't a Lion IMO and Ritchie has played a lot at 6 and had a decent but not amazing season. The clincher for Navidi is probably that he is a jack of all trades type back rower. Will caveat this with saying Navidi may exclusively play 7 but he hasn't played at 7 for Wales since 2018 IIRC. It may be a reaction to a few things if they are thinking Bierne may be an option in the second row, there are knocks or they have thought "jeez Toby was shit and the weekend and we don't really know how Simmonds will do" for 8.

With only 5 games on tour before the test match and assuming Curry and Watson are fit, they can get 2 games in each and the other can be covered by Navidi or AN Other.

Am I the only one that doesn't really get it with Navidi? He's always had a bit of the Lewis Moody about him for me. Lots of running and and energy but it's not always that effective or well directed. I think he gets noticed more because his hair makes him easy to spot, often when he's around a ruck and aiming to jackle but getting nowhere near the ball.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player. But there are many that I'd rather have in the squad

switchskier wrote:Am I the only one that doesn't really get it with Navidi? He's always had a bit of the Lewis Moody about him for me. Lots of running and and energy but it's not always that effective or well directed. I think he gets noticed more because his hair makes him easy to spot, often when he's around a ruck and aiming to jackle but getting nowhere near the ball.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player. But there are many that I'd rather have in the squad

It's Gatland. If in doubt, pick someone he knows.

Big D wrote:

jngf wrote:

Big D wrote:Navidi and Beard in for Tipuric and Jones.

Murray captain.

Navidi’s a good player and was unlucky to miss initial call up - he’s not a like for like replacement for Tipuric though,much more of a 6.5 like Tom Curry

Increasingly fascinated as to how Gatland’s sees that Lions openside position

I am not sure it necessarily says much about the openside position. Underhill is concussed at the moment, Van der Flier isn't a Lion IMO and Ritchie has played a lot at 6 and had a decent but not amazing season. The clincher for Navidi is probably that he is a jack of all trades type back rower. Will caveat this with saying Navidi may exclusively play 7 but he hasn't played at 7 for Wales since 2018 IIRC. It may be a reaction to a few things if they are thinking Bierne may be an option in the second row, there are knocks or they have thought "jeez Toby was shit and the weekend and we don't really know how Simmonds will do" for 8.

With only 5 games on tour before the test match and assuming Curry and Watson are fit, they can get 2 games in each and the other can be covered by Navidi or AN Other.

Still have a feeling we may see Simmonds at 7 - maybe not at start of the tour but more likely by second test. I appreciate he only plays 8 in premiership but he’s more than quick enough to move to 7 and his workrate is at least as good as any of the other back rowers in the squad. Gatland was imo right not to pick Billy by the way - the guy really needs the summer off to regain fitness and playing potency.

jngf wrote:

Big D wrote:

jngf wrote:
Navidi’s a good player and was unlucky to miss initial call up - he’s not a like for like replacement for Tipuric though,much more of a 6.5 like Tom Curry

Increasingly fascinated as to how Gatland’s sees that Lions openside position

I am not sure it necessarily says much about the openside position. Underhill is concussed at the moment, Van der Flier isn't a Lion IMO and Ritchie has played a lot at 6 and had a decent but not amazing season. The clincher for Navidi is probably that he is a jack of all trades type back rower. Will caveat this with saying Navidi may exclusively play 7 but he hasn't played at 7 for Wales since 2018 IIRC. It may be a reaction to a few things if they are thinking Bierne may be an option in the second row, there are knocks or they have thought "jeez Toby was shit and the weekend and we don't really know how Simmonds will do" for 8.

With only 5 games on tour before the test match and assuming Curry and Watson are fit, they can get 2 games in each and the other can be covered by Navidi or AN Other.

Still have a feeling we may see Simmonds at 7 - maybe not at start of the tour but more likely by second test. I appreciate he only plays 8 in premiership but he’s more than quick enough to move to 7 and his workrate is at least as good as any of the other back rowers in the squad. Gatland was imo right not to pick Billy by the way - the guy really needs the summer off to regain fitness and playing potency.

Navidi was one of those layers who could be considered unfortunate in the initial selection. He has had a good season for Wales and was badly missed when injured last year. He is hardly a left of field selection, even if not a total like for like replacement.

Toby was not at his best on Saturday but has been excellent this season. He will either pick his game up or someone else will edge him out, but still very deserving of his place on the tour.

Navidi'll be fine. Unlucky to have missed out initially. Poor AW. At least he's tough enough to recover but mentally that's a right bastard. Has he announced if he plans to continue international rugby?

Mr Mwenda wrote:Navidi'll be fine. Unlucky to have missed out initially. Poor AW. At least he's tough enough to recover but mentally that's a right bastard. Has he announced if he plans to continue international rugby?

Yeah I’d assumed this was going to be his last hurrah, so that’s a big shame. What an odd way to go out if so.

On the other hand he’s had a ludicrous career and been celebrated as a player for a long time now. He’s hardly going to be short of amazing experiences if he ends up calling it a day at this point. He goes out as a hero whatever happens really.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:Navidi'll be fine. Unlucky to have missed out initially. Poor AW. At least he's tough enough to recover but mentally that's a right bastard. Has he announced if he plans to continue international rugby?

Yeah I’d assumed this was going to be his last hurrah, so that’s a big shame. What an odd way to go out if so.

On the other hand he’s had a ludicrous career and been celebrated as a player for a long time now. He’s hardly going to be short of amazing experiences if he ends up calling it a day at this point. He goes out as a hero whatever happens really.

Absolutely.

I hope he can have at least one more game at home in front of fans to give him a proper send off. I had wondered if this would be the end for him but I wouldn't bet against him playing in the next RWC (I seem to recall Simon Shaw managed a tournament at 37). Provided this is nothing too serious theres no reason why not other than AWJ feeling that his time is up.

If he does decide that this is the end of the road then, I hope Privac can convince him into one more game at home, even if its Italy in the 6N, so he can get the standing ovation he absolutely deserves.

Lions V Lions

15. Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales)
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)
10. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland)
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, England)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England)
6.Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England)
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland)
8. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales)

Replacements:
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)
18. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster Rugby, Ireland)
20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England)
21.Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales)
22. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland)
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England)

Russell and Farrell as the 10/12. That should be... cohesive?

Puja

Certainly an interesting clash of personalities, but no reason it shouldn't work? Farrell and Harris as a Lions centre pairing is hilarious though, to be fair. Very interested how the defensive shape looks in midfield. Tandy's approach with Scotland so far has been a long, long way from how we're used to seeing Farrell defend for Saracens/England.

Lawes at 6 is alarming but at least he's accompanied by two very mobile backrows and locks.

Are the SA Lions likely to be any sort of test at all?

Puja wrote:Russell and Farrell as the 10/12. That should be... cohesive?

Puja

It is going to be interesting. In theory it gives lots of opportunity to do something different in attack as both can play 10 and 12. They wont but in theory they might

Mikey Brown wrote:
Lawes at 6 is alarming but at least he's accompanied by two very mobile backrows and locks.

They don't really have too many options. I don't think we will see Curry and Watson together, Conan/Bierne played last week and Navidi is just joined up. There are few actual 6's in the squad.

Yeah, fair enough. Alarming was probably overstating it, given none of this matters and we probably won't even make it to a test match.

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:Russell and Farrell as the 10/12. That should be... cohesive?

Puja

It is going to be interesting. In theory it gives lots of opportunity to do something different in attack as both can play 10 and 12. They wont but in theory they might

In fairness, Farrell is far from being as bad a player as he's painted and has done a good job outside of Ford who can play just as attacking as Russell can. It's just a bit of an amusing clash of archetypes: Price/Russell looking for lines from Farrell/Harris. But Russell and Harris have worked pretty well for Scotland over the years, so clearly Finn can adapt to what he's working with.

Puja

Yep, it's down to Farrell to see if he can emulate his hero Cameron Redpath and tie that midfield together.

Gloskarlos wrote:Lions V Lions

15. Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales)
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England)
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)
10. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland)
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, England)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England)
6.Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England)
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland)
8. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales)

Replacements:
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England)
18. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster Rugby, Ireland)
20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England)
21.Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales)
22. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland)
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England)

Interesting line up, no real clues yet on what the fist test team will look like id suggest. Lawes at 6 is an interesting call, but I do understand why its been made . Really not sure about the centre partnership, although I do feel that centres is the one area where we have less depth.

I don't especially rate Lawes at 6 and I have no particular desire to see it ever tried for England again, but IIRC he's been playing that position near exclusively for Northampton this year and last. It's not hard to argue that he's a full-time 6, even if not one that I'm a fan of.

Puja

Puja wrote:I don't especially rate Lawes at 6 and I have no particular desire to see it ever tried for England again, but IIRC he's been playing that position near exclusively for Northampton this year and last. It's not hard to argue that he's a full-time 6, even if not one that I'm a fan of.

Puja

This. I struggle to see him as a 6 regardless of what he does for Saints. I think there are better options available almost everywhere else.