RugbyRebels

stepsider wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:47 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:08 am

stepsider wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 7:28 pm

Agree that there's strong competition but sadly none of the three you mention is getting chances either, more's the pity.

OHC has played and imo struggled (albeit in a poor team), Freeman was outstanding in Oz (and mysterious why Splendid Braveman hasn't seen fit to stick him in a match day squad yet -iirc), Murley has been in lots of squads. TBH I don't think our presenting issue is not selecting or embracing talented and quick wingers.

Sorting the pack is def. the priority. But I'd also like to see wingers with the most potential being picked. IMHO that hasn't been happening.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 4:32 pm

stepsider wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:47 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:08 am

OHC has played and imo struggled (albeit in a poor team), Freeman was outstanding in Oz (and mysterious why Splendid Braveman hasn't seen fit to stick him in a match day squad yet -iirc), Murley has been in lots of squads. TBH I don't think our presenting issue is not selecting or embracing talented and quick wingers.

Sorting the pack is def. the priority. But I'd also like to see wingers with the most potential being picked. IMHO that hasn't been happening.

I don't really agree. The one slightly hard done by player is Freeman. And you only pick players with 'potential' if there is no-one playing better tbh.

(that said, I wouldn't touch Malins with Mells' bargepole)

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:34 pmFord/Kelly/Steward worked at Tigers I'd like to see that given a go with Lawrence at 13.

Would mean dropping the Ice Man.

padprop wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:34 pm just reflecting that our overall squad isn’t good enough. We havent produced a dominant Under 20s squad in years. 2019 was probably the best we have been since 2003 and alot of those players have gone backwards (Vunipola x 2, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Youngs, May). I don’t think we have better alternatives to those players at their peak.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 7:34 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 4:32 pm

stepsider wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:47 am

Sorting the pack is def. the priority. But I'd also like to see wingers with the most potential being picked. IMHO that hasn't been happening.

I don't really agree. The one slightly hard done by player is Freeman. And you only pick players with 'potential' if there is no-one playing better tbh.

(that said, I wouldn't touch Malins with Mells' bargepole)

I'm a fan of Freeman and would have him in the 23 but I think you're overselling it slightly to say he was outstanding in Australia, he was good but not his free flowing best.

A Freeman, Watson, Steward back three would add a lot in terms of attacking threat but would lack a playmaker though we didn't use the one we had last time out. Ford/Kelly/Steward worked at Tigers I'd like to see that given a go with Lawrence at 13. Would mean dropping the Ice Man.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:50 pm

padprop wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:34 pm just reflecting that our overall squad isn’t good enough. We havent produced a dominant Under 20s squad in years. 2019 was probably the best we have been since 2003 and alot of those players have gone backwards (Vunipola x 2, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Youngs, May). I don’t think we have better alternatives to those players at their peak.

Been saying this on and off for years.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:08 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:50 pm

padprop wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:34 pm just reflecting that our overall squad isn’t good enough. We havent produced a dominant Under 20s squad in years. 2019 was probably the best we have been since 2003 and alot of those players have gone backwards (Vunipola x 2, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Youngs, May). I don’t think we have better alternatives to those players at their peak.

Been saying this on and off for years.

Selection debates on new players are inevitable:

Puja wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:59 pm Jack Nowell declares himself unavailable for the RWC (almost certainly ending his international career): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65685320

I'm not disappointed from an England perspective as I think we can do better currently, but I think he has been perennially undervalued by England supporters. He lacked some traditional winger strengths, like being very fast, but he made ground in ridiculous ways. A traditional speedster might've finished tries that Nowell couldn't by burning people on the outside, but Nowell finished tries and made ground that no-one else could by being so ridiculously hard to stop in contact. Fair play to him for deciding not to flog himself through a summer that'd likely end in disappointment, given Suella Bravermann had already dropped him once, and good luck in France.

Puja

padprop wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:34 pm Us: ENGLISH COACHES DONT PICK EXCITING PLAYERS

Coach: picks Smith, Simmonds, Hassell-Collins, JVP, Lawrence, Arundell and Malins early in their career who go on to have on the whole mixed performances and none of which own the shirt

Us: BUT RADWAN

Feel we so easily forget how many messiahs have been tried and failed to make an impact. We just go onto the next one and blame coaching staff for not starting the next messiah inside of just reflecting that our overall squad isn’t good enough. We havent produced a dominant Under 20s squad in years. 2019 was probably the best we have been since 2003 and alot of those players have gone backwards (Vunipola x 2, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Youngs, May). I don’t think we have better alternatives to those players at their peak.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:49 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:59 pm Jack Nowell declares himself unavailable for the RWC (almost certainly ending his international career): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65685320

I'm not disappointed from an England perspective as I think we can do better currently, but I think he has been perennially undervalued by England supporters. He lacked some traditional winger strengths, like being very fast, but he made ground in ridiculous ways. A traditional speedster might've finished tries that Nowell couldn't by burning people on the outside, but Nowell finished tries and made ground that no-one else could by being so ridiculously hard to stop in contact. Fair play to him for deciding not to flog himself through a summer that'd likely end in disappointment, given Suella Bravermann had already dropped him once, and good luck in France.

Puja

I take the opposite view- I think he's been lucky to have got got so many caps especially with his injury record. Top club player, moderate intl, especially in defence, tho his scoring rate is also low-ish.

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:25 pm very effective.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:15 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:25 pm very effective.

At int level?

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:46 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:15 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:25 pm very effective.

At int level?

Yeah, sure at the start. He was a busy, elusive wing, who wasn't going to run them in from half way, but was pretty hard to stop in the red zone. Fairly productive too. His overall record was impacted by only scoring 2 tries in 22 games international career from 2018, when he'd tailed off a bit and there were better options available.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:36 am Nowell is the Farrell of wingers, for me. Loads of attributes but not many that are at the top of the list of what I want in a winger.

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:46 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:15 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:25 pm very effective.

At int level?

Yeah, sure at the start. He was a busy, elusive wing, who wasn't going to run them in from half way, but was pretty hard to stop in the red zone. Fairly productive too. His overall record was impacted by only scoring 2 tries in 22 games international career from 2018, when he'd tailed off a bit and there were better options available.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:10 am

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:46 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:15 pm

At int level?

Yeah, sure at the start. He was a busy, elusive wing, who wasn't going to run them in from half way, but was pretty hard to stop in the red zone. Fairly productive too. His overall record was impacted by only scoring 2 tries in 22 games international career from 2018, when he'd tailed off a bit and there were better options available.

Always liked him. Nuggety, determined, with a priceless ability to beat the first man and make more ground than he had a right to. Not averse to getting stuck into breakdowns or to go infield looking for work. Sure there were limitations but he played well for England a lot more times than he played poorly.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 6:56 am The Cueto effect, sadly.