RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:39 am

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

I agree, they looked a step change above what Pivac was getting, and a damn sight fitter. TBH had they kept playing like they did the first ten minutes they'd have won easily.

My EMB colleagues will shoot me, but I wouldn't have minded Gatland as a caretaker going into this RWC. He'd have been a better bridge than Borthwick imo.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:23 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:39 am

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

I agree, they looked a step change above what Pivac was getting, and a damn sight fitter. TBH had they kept playing like they did the first ten minutes they'd have won easily.

My EMB colleagues will shoot me, but I wouldn't have minded Gatland as a caretaker going into this RWC. He'd have been a better bridge than Borthwick imo.

Gatland turned us around from being a joke team who lost at home to Italy, Georgia and Australia seconds into a side that could have made the semis. A bit more composure in that first half and we could have gone in two scores clear. We weren’t blown away yesterday by a much better team, as well as Argentina played we were undone by own own mistakes and discipline.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:41 pm Totally agree they dominated the second half. But if we had been further ahead then it would have made it a different game and they would have had to chance their arm a bit.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:17 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:41 pm Totally agree they dominated the second half. But if we had been further ahead then it would have made it a different game and they would have had to chance their arm a bit.

yep,as I noted earlier..you were all over them for 20+ mins

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:16 pm

Rubbish. Australia and Georgia beat Provac teams comfortably in Cardiff. Privac didn’t get the best out of this team and whilst it isn’t vintage Gatland has got more out of the players.

I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:27 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:08 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:27 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

Youre right that the group was not the strongest of opposition compared to others. Yet it was made up of closely matched teams and Wales were comfortably the best of the lot, even if not flawless. The way Wales had played in the year or so before the world cup, there was a real.chance they they would not qualify as they'd lost to Australia and Georgia only last autumn. Since they won the 6n, under Pivac Wales looked lost as to what style and what players Pivac wanted, and that was reflected in the results. We'll never know if it would have all come together, but there was scant evidence a year ago that it would. Under Gatland, it didnt turn around immediately but there are signs it is now. Losing to Argentina yesterday was a setback, but it was only due to the recent improvements that we're as disappointed that we are. After losing to georgia and throwing away a big lead against Australia last year, I doubt many would have see this RWC performances coming.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:27 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:27 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
I'm not going to call your opinion rubbish, but I disagree with it. We have been flattered by the poor quality in our side of the draw. A Pivac coached Wales would have been similarly flattered and would probably also have gotten to the quarters.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Gatland has failed. I'm saying he hasn't performed any better than Pivac was likely to have. So the WRU wasted their money. I'm not saying we should change again - that would be more money wasted, I expect. But a dismal 6N and, to be generous, a par RWC is no great return for ~£1M spent to change the coaching team.

I'm not sure that a Pivac team would have got to the quarters with the performances that this squad has, if indeed at all. Gatland has given Wales a coherence that the Wales under Pivac lacked for the previous 2 seasons. Gatland may not have made them better players, but has got them ( largely) playing as a unit. Today was a step backward, yes, but from where we were last autumn, its stil progress. Of course, we need other areas of the game in Wales to progress too, to make a long term difference.

Yeah, but who have we been tested against? We've only shown 'coherence' against poor or average opposition and twice we've collapsed in the last 15 minutes. The only good team we've faced since the 6N was SA, who thrashed us. We've been beaten (albeit narrowly) by an average Argentina, and worst of all, we fell away as the match went on - we had no answer when our tactics didn't deliver and our fitness was matched by theirs (which is not really surprising - everyone gets fitter for the RWC).

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:40 pm

switchskier wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:30 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:05 pm

IMO: yellow card for Adams (it's not a tackle, it's a shoulder, off the ball, after the whistle), but restart with the penalty against Lavinini for the afters

My first reaction was red. It was a thought out cheap shot. Lavinnis reaction shouldn't change that and Argentina have ever right to be livid.

That’s never a red. A deserved yellow but nothing more.

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:42 pm I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:50 pm

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:42 pm I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

It's a fair point. But then so have the other national coaches, Privac probably had more access to his players than the Georgian coach had prior to the AIs last year.

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:33 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:50 pm

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:42 pm I think it's important to remember that Gatland had an extended period to get this squad ready, this is something he has excelled at prior to all the World Cups, Pivac never had that luxury..

It's a fair point. But then so have the other national coaches, Privac probably had more access to his players than the Georgian coach had prior to the AIs last year.

Yes and he was experimenting with new players also, there is no substitue for having an extended period of time with the players, we aren't comparing Pivac with the Georgian coach we're comparing him to Gatland so your comment doesn't really hold any water.

Graigwen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:49 pm I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:05 pm

Graigwen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:49 pm I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Sorry to hear about that. The quarter final was not much of a cause for cheer! Good thing the URC starts today . . . although perhaps hopes for cheer from that direction may be limited too.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:05 pm

Graigwen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:49 pm I have just resurfaced after one of the worst weeks of my life (close relatives almost dying and collecting two medical diagnoses myself) I have come to terms with us not reaching the semis - I was banking on a win to cheer me up.

We could have won the Argentina game, we should have won the game, but we were the second best team on the pitch. Sure there were lots of bits of bad luck, but it was our own failings that let Argentina win. It probably does not matter in the short term, I am sure the All Blacks would have thumped us if we had reached the semis, just as they will thump the Argies tonight.

We come away from the World Cup with potentially the components of a really good team. Next years 6 Nations will be a good test of this idea.

.

Sorry to hear about that. The quarter final was not much of a cause for cheer! Good thing the URC starts today . . . although perhaps hopes for cheer from that direction may be limited too.