Team for England

[Tuco Ramirez]

Serious question. What does Costellow offer which makes him "a very good player which is plain to see to most people" I have played a decent level and coached successfully so like to think i know a bit about the game.... I think he is erratic, weak in defence and cannot control a game. I have not seen a lot of Lloyd if i am being honest but Costellow is miles off it in my opinion and Lloyd, although not the answer, offers more in respect of getting the backline going. Obv has flaws but he does offer something.

His defence is very good for his size, he gets stuck in, he takes the ball to the attacking line very well, his kicking has improved immeasurably over the last two seasons both from hand and from the tee and he can make a break with excellent acceleration and a decent step. He can control a game better than Lloyd who wants to do something special everytime he has the ball, Lloyd has made a good fist of the 10 role at regional level but he doesn't have much in the way of game management at the moment which is required for test level.

There's not a huge amount in it, but as can be seen from both the regional and international coaches selections he is the preferred option at 10 over Lloyd, I don't purport to know more than professional coaches about this.

Here are some highlights for you:

Mate… we are going yo have agree to disagree here. Time will tell but not a test 10 for me for reasons given previously. It's not personal pal but for me he ain't got it at test level. Love to be proved wrong and time will tell . as for the highlight reel, many perform at club level and cannot step up. Not for me.... at the moment. too many mistakes in him, defence poor and kicks erraticaly

[Numbers]

Fair enough.

[Son of Mathonwy]

IMO Costelow and Lloyd have a lot of similarities as players. They're both young (almost the same age) and known for doing the unexpected and making quick breaks. When Biggar and Anscombe were around Costelow was the one with question marks over his ability to control a game, and removing those two hasn't magically changed that - it's just that, at this precise moment (with Sheedy and Owen Williams unavailable) Costelow finds himself in the position of being our most experienced 10. But that doesn't make him experienced.

The differences between Costelow and Lloyd are that Costelow is more experienced at 10, Lloyd in a variety of positions; and, while not huge, Lloyd is 4 inches and 10kg bigger than Costelow, while still being at least as manoeuvrable (or more so, if his exploits in the last few months are anything to go by). And at this moment Costelow has hardly played rugby since the world cup.

For me, Lloyd looks like he's got more potential than Costelow because of his (at times spectacular) recent form for the Scarlets and because of his greater physicality. Also, his game control has been reasonable in the last two tests, which calms my biggest fears. But it's early days.

[Tuco Ramirez]

IMO Costelow and Lloyd have a lot of similarities as players. They're both young (almost the same age) and known for doing the unexpected and making quick breaks. When Biggar and Anscombe were around Costelow was the one with question marks over his ability to control a game, and removing those two hasn't magically changed that - it's just that, at this precise moment (with Sheedy and Owen Williams unavailable) Costelow finds himself in the position of being our most experienced 10. But that doesn't make him experienced.

The differences between Costelow and Lloyd are that Costelow is more experienced at 10, Lloyd in a variety of positions; and, while not huge, Lloyd is 4 inches and 10kg bigger than Costelow, while still being at least as manoeuvrable (or more so, if his exploits in the last few months are anything to go by). And at this moment Costelow has hardly played rugby since the world cup.

For me, Lloyd looks like he's got more potential than Costelow because of his (at times spectacular) recent form for the Scarlets and because of his greater physicality. Also, his game control has been reasonable in the last two tests, which calms my biggest fears. But it's early days.

Can't disagree with any of that

[Numbers]

IMO Costelow and Lloyd have a lot of similarities as players. They're both young (almost the same age) and known for doing the unexpected and making quick breaks. When Biggar and Anscombe were around Costelow was the one with question marks over his ability to control a game, and removing those two hasn't magically changed that - it's just that, at this precise moment (with Sheedy and Owen Williams unavailable) Costelow finds himself in the position of being our most experienced 10. But that doesn't make him experienced.

The differences between Costelow and Lloyd are that Costelow is more experienced at 10, Lloyd in a variety of positions; and, while not huge, Lloyd is 4 inches and 10kg bigger than Costelow, while still being at least as manoeuvrable (or more so, if his exploits in the last few months are anything to go by). And at this moment Costelow has hardly played rugby since the world cup.

For me, Lloyd looks like he's got more potential than Costelow because of his (at times spectacular) recent form for the Scarlets and because of his greater physicality. Also, his game control has been reasonable in the last two tests, which calms my biggest fears. But it's early days.

Yet Peel prefers Costelow as does Gatland..

[Son of Mathonwy]

IMO Costelow and Lloyd have a lot of similarities as players. They're both young (almost the same age) and known for doing the unexpected and making quick breaks. When Biggar and Anscombe were around Costelow was the one with question marks over his ability to control a game, and removing those two hasn't magically changed that - it's just that, at this precise moment (with Sheedy and Owen Williams unavailable) Costelow finds himself in the position of being our most experienced 10. But that doesn't make him experienced.

The differences between Costelow and Lloyd are that Costelow is more experienced at 10, Lloyd in a variety of positions; and, while not huge, Lloyd is 4 inches and 10kg bigger than Costelow, while still being at least as manoeuvrable (or more so, if his exploits in the last few months are anything to go by). And at this moment Costelow has hardly played rugby since the world cup.

For me, Lloyd looks like he's got more potential than Costelow because of his (at times spectacular) recent form for the Scarlets and because of his greater physicality. Also, his game control has been reasonable in the last two tests, which calms my biggest fears. But it's early days.

Yet Peel prefers Costelow as does Gatland..

Well, Peel has that issue we've seen before with Dan Biggar and Stephen Jones - they don't play any other position. If you're going to play Costelow, you pretty much have to make him 10, whereas Lloyd could play anywhere from 10 to 15. So in the very small amount of time Peel had both available he put Costelow at 10 and Lloyd at 15. Similarly for Gatland, this 'prefers' is based on very little evidence (ie 1 match). I'm not saying you're wrong but there's not much to go on at this point.

[Numbers]

IMO Costelow and Lloyd have a lot of similarities as players. They're both young (almost the same age) and known for doing the unexpected and making quick breaks. When Biggar and Anscombe were around Costelow was the one with question marks over his ability to control a game, and removing those two hasn't magically changed that - it's just that, at this precise moment (with Sheedy and Owen Williams unavailable) Costelow finds himself in the position of being our most experienced 10. But that doesn't make him experienced.

The differences between Costelow and Lloyd are that Costelow is more experienced at 10, Lloyd in a variety of positions; and, while not huge, Lloyd is 4 inches and 10kg bigger than Costelow, while still being at least as manoeuvrable (or more so, if his exploits in the last few months are anything to go by). And at this moment Costelow has hardly played rugby since the world cup.

For me, Lloyd looks like he's got more potential than Costelow because of his (at times spectacular) recent form for the Scarlets and because of his greater physicality. Also, his game control has been reasonable in the last two tests, which calms my biggest fears. But it's early days.

Yet Peel prefers Costelow as does Gatland..

Well, Peel has that issue we've seen before with Dan Biggar and Stephen Jones - they don't play any other position. If you're going to play Costelow, you pretty much have to make him 10, whereas Lloyd could play anywhere from 10 to 15. So in the very small amount of time Peel had both available he put Costelow at 10 and Lloyd at 15. Similarly for Gatland, this 'prefers' is based on very little evidence (ie 1 match). I'm not saying you're wrong but there's not much to go on at this point.

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

[bruce]

Let's get Patchell back from NZ.

[Numbers]

Let's get Patchell back from NZ.

Not enough caps unfortunately.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Let's get Patchell back from NZ.

Not enough caps unfortunately.

Yep, arguably he left Wales just at the wrong time but there's a fair chance Gatland would have ignored him even if he was available.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Yet Peel prefers Costelow as does Gatland..

Well, Peel has that issue we've seen before with Dan Biggar and Stephen Jones - they don't play any other position. If you're going to play Costelow, you pretty much have to make him 10, whereas Lloyd could play anywhere from 10 to 15. So in the very small amount of time Peel had both available he put Costelow at 10 and Lloyd at 15. Similarly for Gatland, this 'prefers' is based on very little evidence (ie 1 match). I'm not saying you're wrong but there's not much to go on at this point.

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

In an ideal world there's no need to compromise.

In the real world every selection is potentially a compromise, depending on the available players.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Yet Peel prefers Costelow as does Gatland..

Well, Peel has that issue we've seen before with Dan Biggar and Stephen Jones - they don't play any other position. If you're going to play Costelow, you pretty much have to make him 10, whereas Lloyd could play anywhere from 10 to 15. So in the very small amount of time Peel had both available he put Costelow at 10 and Lloyd at 15. Similarly for Gatland, this 'prefers' is based on very little evidence (ie 1 match). I'm not saying you're wrong but there's not much to go on at this point.

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

[Numbers]

Well, Peel has that issue we've seen before with Dan Biggar and Stephen Jones - they don't play any other position. If you're going to play Costelow, you pretty much have to make him 10, whereas Lloyd could play anywhere from 10 to 15. So in the very small amount of time Peel had both available he put Costelow at 10 and Lloyd at 15. Similarly for Gatland, this 'prefers' is based on very little evidence (ie 1 match). I'm not saying you're wrong but there's not much to go on at this point.

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

[Tuco Ramirez]

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

What i was saying is I don't think either of them are the answer. Who he pick v Ireland is a moot point. If your arguing who is the best out of them both then no there is not a great deal in it. But MY personal preference of the two is Lloyd

[Sandydragon]

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

What i was saying is I don't think either of them are the answer. Who he pick v Ireland is a moot point. If your arguing who is the best out of them both then no there is not a great deal in it. But MY personal preference of the two is Lloyd

Neither are really international fly halves at the moment, but since we don’t have an alternative that’s really ideal for the next RWC (I
Don’t rate Sheedy that highly) then we need to stick with them. Costelow has hardly played this season and Lloyd has played well at club level so he deserve the shirt right now. When both play regularly there is an argument for having both in the squad and using the different skills tactically.

Neither will perform if they get slow ball off a beaten pack. Right now that’s our biggest issue.

[Numbers]

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

What i was saying is I don't think either of them are the answer. Who he pick v Ireland is a moot point. If your arguing who is the best out of them both then no there is not a great deal in it. But MY personal preference of the two is Lloyd

This is the issue tho I suppose, there's no-one else on the horizon apart from Jarrod Evans who has serious issues with his kicking, I'd have liked to have seen Ben Thomas given some game time at 10 but that ship seems to have sailed, the worrying thing is that it's quite a step down from those two to Cai Evans who is not a 10 in anyone's book, Dan Edwards at the Os looks like a promising player, maybe he'll be given a chance but it's too soon at the moment.

But as SDandy said when the forwards are getting bested there's not much a 10 can do to show their qualities (other than the defensive ones.)

[pompey-zebra]

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

What i was saying is I don't think either of them are the answer. Who he pick v Ireland is a moot point. If your arguing who is the best out of them both then no there is not a great deal in it. But MY personal preference of the two is Lloyd

This is the issue tho I suppose, there's no-one else on the horizon apart from Jarrod Evans who has serious issues with his kicking, I'd have liked to have seen Ben Thomas given some game time at 10 but that ship seems to have sailed, the worrying thing is that it's quite a step down from those two to Cai Evans who is not a 10 in anyone's book, Dan Edwards at the Os looks like a promising player, maybe he'll be given a chance but it's too soon at the moment.

But as SDandy said when the forwards are getting bested there's not much a 10 can do to show their qualities (other than the defensive ones.)

I think we've got to hope that reasonably one if not both of them do become reliable international players regardless of their ultimate potential. As it's been said, there are few if any clearly better alternatives, and even if one or two do come along and become our first choices, we'll still need back up to them. Otherwise, we'll be in the same position as the RWC with two very experienced 10's and the third an international rookie, raw to such an extent that one of the scrum halves is being considered as a viable alternative.

[Tuco Ramirez]

10 isn't really a position to compromise, you play your best 10 available not shuffle players around, we'll see I suppose with who Gatland picks for the next match.

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

Do you still think Costellow needs to be persevered with mate?

[Numbers]

Thats not really true is it, you pick what is available and suits the team best. Because of Lloyds utility Peel is able to get them both on the park. I am not an expert on the Scarlets squad but that is how i see it. If Galand picks Costellow v Ireland that makes no difference either, still don't think he is the long term option for reasons given previously. Don't think Lloyd is either but imho he is the best of a bad bunch.

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

Do you still think Costellow needs to be persevered with mate?

Yep, the cupboard is rather bare, as I said before I would prefer it if Ben Thomas was given a chance but that doesn't seem to be on the cards whilst he's playing 12.

[Sandydragon]

It would mean that the coaches see him as a better 10, that's quite evident, I may be wrong, perhaps Lloyd will get the nod, who knows.

Do you still think Costellow needs to be persevered with mate?

Yep, the cupboard is rather bare, as I said before I would prefer it if Ben Thomas was given a chance but that doesn't seem to be on the cards whilst he's playing 12.

Callum Sheedy should be eligible again shortly. Whilst not the new Barry John, he is less likely to lose us a match than Costelow or Lloyd are right now and might take some of the pressure off them. And he is young enough to play a full part in this RWC cycle.