Scotland vs England - minute-by-minute

[Banquo]

Thanks Puja.

Shame F.Smith is out injured this weekend.

A few tweaks and hopefully we can be a bit more accurate and actually pose some sort of challenge to Ireland.

You'd hope so, but Ireland are also waay better than Scotland.

[16th man]

Thanks Puja.

Shame F.Smith is out injured this weekend.

A few tweaks and hopefully we can be a bit more accurate and actually pose some sort of challenge to Ireland.

You'd hope so, but Ireland are also waay better than Scotland.

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

[Puja]

Thanks Puja.

Shame F.Smith is out injured this weekend.

A few tweaks and hopefully we can be a bit more accurate and actually pose some sort of challenge to Ireland.

You'd hope so, but Ireland are also waay better than Scotland.

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

[Banquo]

You'd hope so, but Ireland are also waay better than Scotland.

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

[Puja]

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

...I'd keep Lawrence, Furbank, and Freeman?

Puja

[p/d]

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

[Banquo]

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

...I'd keep Lawrence, Furbank, and Freeman?

Puja

I think you get my drift/blitz

[Greebo]

Thanks Puja.

[Puja]

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

...I'd keep Lawrence, Furbank, and Freeman?

Puja

I think you get my drift/blitz

Very nice {golf-claps}

Point taken, although if we're talking putting Mitchell and Dingwall back in, then they've both got two games and 5 weeks of training under this system, so it's hardly bringing in unfamiliar newbies. As with so many thing with England across so much time though, I wouldn't be starting from here...

Puja

[Stom]

Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.

I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...

I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.

I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.

[Mikey Brown]

It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.

It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.

Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?

I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.

[Banquo]

This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.

Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.

Puja

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...

I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.

I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.

OP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of three

[Puja]

...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingers

Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...

I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.

I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.

OP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of three

But bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.

Puja

[Banquo]

Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...

I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.

I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.

OP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of three

But bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.

Puja

Not disputing it, but its all new combos. Think that's quite a lot of change, personally. Not that its happening- we seem to be happy to keep a poor unit together.

[Stom]

OP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of three

But bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.

Puja

Not disputing it, but its all new combos. Think that's quite a lot of change, personally. Not that its happening- we seem to be happy to keep a poor unit together.

Well, yeah, I probably wouldn't make that many changes. I'd keep Marcus on the bench, and keep Daly in the wing slot for now (he's got better since that awful performance against Italy). So only really one change.

It's all swings and roundabouts, though, if we continue to lack clarity in action. Damn, we really do need Mitchell back.

[Banquo]

But bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.

Puja

Not disputing it, but its all new combos. Think that's quite a lot of change, personally. Not that its happening- we seem to be happy to keep a poor unit together.

Well, yeah, I probably wouldn't make that many changes. I'd keep Marcus on the bench, and keep Daly in the wing slot for now (he's got better since that awful performance against Italy). So only really one change.

It's all swings and roundabouts, though, if we continue to lack clarity in action. Damn, we really do need Mitchell back.

he is . Only two changes to starting backline.

[Spiffy]

It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.

It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.

Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?

I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.

I think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.

[Oakboy]

It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.

It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.

Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?

I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.

I think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.

Agreed - a wasted talent. Unfortunately, most of his caps have been alongside Farrell and/or Ford - arguably the fundamental 'follow orders' men (at international level). He never fitted with Tuilagi either. I don't think England will fulfil potential until all four are consigned to history. Slade could have been better in different circumstances but I don't think he can adapt (or will be allowed to) for the future beyond preparing the 13 shirt for Freeman.

[Puja]

It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.

It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.

Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?

I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.

I think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.

I don't know I can agree - for most of the time with England, the problem with his game has been less that he's been restricted, but basic skills errors under the higher level of intensity that internationals bring. Look at the Scotland game for example - inaccurate passing (in one case, somehow managing to pass behind someone with a pop pass that needed to travel about 20cm), a horrendous misread in defence, awful decision-making when stepping in at first receiver. Can't really say it's a waste of talent and skill when he keeps making skill mistakes.

Puja

[p/d]

I have always really liked Slade but his stuttering performances at test level can’t always be laid at someone else’s door.
I just don’t think he is anything more than a very good club player, sadly.

[Which Tyler]

I have always really liked Slade but his stuttering performances at test level can’t always be laid at someone else’s door.
I just don’t think he is anything more than a very good club player, sadly.

This. He's got 62 caps, with the first dozen or so in a settled, winning team. He still looks uncomfortable at international level, it can't all be someone else's fault.

I think he's just one of those (and there are many) who look absolute mustard at club level (where I'm a big fan, and I fully supported his recall for this 6N, based on club form), but never make the step up to international level. Most of them don't get this many chances.

[16th man]

Italians are showing us up a bit here.

[FKAS]

Italians are showing us up a bit here.

It's amazing what you can do when you don't drop the ball every other phase.

[p/d]

Italians are showing us up a bit here.

Bloody marvellous game!!!!

[Spiffy]

Italians are showing us up a bit here.

Italy should really have had three wins in this 6N so far. That was a great win over Scotland with some great plays both in attack and defence.