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Ireland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.
This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.16th man wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:07 pmIreland probably a bigger step up from Scotland than Scotland were from Wales.
I suspect an organised, grooved in side, with numerous top class players are going to be ready to carve us to pieces.
...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pmThis is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
...I'd keep Lawrence, Furbank, and Freeman?Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:36 pm...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pmThis is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:36 pm...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pmThis is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
I think you get my drift/blitzPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:53 pm...I'd keep Lawrence, Furbank, and Freeman?Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:36 pm...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pm
This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
Puja
Very nice {golf-claps}
Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:36 pm...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pmThis is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
OP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of threeStom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:28 amJust shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:36 pm...so we trot out with a completely new backline and cross our fingersPuja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:35 pm
This is some hope, to my mind. That defensive system that we're building is nasty and will end up winning us games on its own when it's ready. If Mitchell is truly fit, then we're a significantly better side than the Scotland game (both from the step-up from Mitchell to starting!Care, and the massive step-up from Impact!Care to Spencer), and, if MSmith is truly fit, he will add the personal threat from 10 that our attack has been crying out for.
Don't get me wrong, I think we're going to get clumped. But I also think there is a very good performance lurking somewhere in this England team and it is possible to rattle Ireland if we manage to bring it out.
Puja
I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.
I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.
But bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:25 amOP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of threeStom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:28 amJust shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...
I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.
I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.
Not disputing it, but its all new combos. Think that's quite a lot of change, personally. Not that its happening- we seem to be happy to keep a poor unit together.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:28 amBut bringing back two of the players that played the first two games, so really only two newbies.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:25 amOP was bringing back Mitchell, bringing in Smith m, changing out Slade and Daly to be fair. Basically three new units out of threeStom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:28 am
Just shows how badly wrong many of us think SB has got backs selection...
I'd say that reverting to your first choice SH, who missed the last game through injury, is hardly a "complete change". I would probably be making 1 or 2 changes on top of Mitchell, with Dingwall coming back in for Slade, and then I'd think about Steward coming back.
I wouldn't say a hard no to Tuilagi, I just want shot of Slade, finally.
Puja
Well, yeah, I probably wouldn't make that many changes. I'd keep Marcus on the bench, and keep Daly in the wing slot for now (he's got better since that awful performance against Italy). So only really one change.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:41 amNot disputing it, but its all new combos. Think that's quite a lot of change, personally. Not that its happening- we seem to be happy to keep a poor unit together.
he isStom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:18 pmWell, yeah, I probably wouldn't make that many changes. I'd keep Marcus on the bench, and keep Daly in the wing slot for now (he's got better since that awful performance against Italy). So only really one change.
It's all swings and roundabouts, though, if we continue to lack clarity in action. Damn, we really do need Mitchell back.
. Only two changes to starting backline.I think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:18 am It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.
It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.
Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?
I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.
Agreed - a wasted talent. Unfortunately, most of his caps have been alongside Farrell and/or Ford - arguably the fundamental 'follow orders' men (at international level). He never fitted with Tuilagi either. I don't think England will fulfil potential until all four are consigned to history. Slade could have been better in different circumstances but I don't think he can adapt (or will be allowed to) for the future beyond preparing the 13 shirt for Freeman.Spiffy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:52 amI think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:18 am It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.
It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.
Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?
I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.
I don't know I can agree - for most of the time with England, the problem with his game has been less that he's been restricted, but basic skills errors under the higher level of intensity that internationals bring. Look at the Scotland game for example - inaccurate passing (in one case, somehow managing to pass behind someone with a pop pass that needed to travel about 20cm), a horrendous misread in defence, awful decision-making when stepping in at first receiver. Can't really say it's a waste of talent and skill when he keeps making skill mistakes.Spiffy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:52 amI think Slade is a pretty good, all-round, skillful player who does most things well and has rugby intelligence. Like others, he has failed to impress at international level because he has been instructed by the coaches (Jones, then Borthwick) to play rugby by numbers in a rigid game plan that leaves little (or no) room for creativity/spontaneous invention. Follow orders or get dropped. Bogged down by this restriction, and unable to express himself, his selection has mostly been a waste of talent.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:18 am It’s weird thinking about calling time on Slade’s international career. He looked like he was almost there so many times.
It looked like being left out of the RWC had a real positive impact. He’s been in his best form for years for Exeter, seemed to have grown as a leader (and a handy enough goal kicker) then comes back in for England and just looks all out of place again.
Obviously he’s largely responsible for Jones’s new, innovative, never-before-seen blitz defence, which has had pretty mixed results. Yet again “it needs time to bed in” etc etc. Will Lawrence do any better?
I find it hard not to make the parallel with Dombrandt yet again. I hope it goes better for him if he gets another shot, but it’s not looking likely given his club understudy has already usurped him.
This. He's got 62 caps, with the first dozen or so in a settled, winning team. He still looks uncomfortable at international level, it can't all be someone else's fault.