RugbyRebels

I facking hate Laura Kuenssberg. She's the classic example of a cheap journo' that thinks she can 'make' the news as opposed to reporting it.
Wiki doesn't seem to mention it anymore but I seem to remember she's married to a former Conservative mandarin...?.

The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: ETA..I see bloody Farage said the same thing. Crap, I feel dirty now.

At the weekend I made an observation which was echoed moments later by Stuart Barnes, and I got knowing looks from my brother in law and his father who as an aside were on a really long trip to the tip it seemed, indeed I've some suspicions they never went to the tip and simply came to watch rugby and have a cup of tea and bacon sandwich, my newphew didn't notice but then he watches the rugby out of the corner of his eye whilst attending to his phone. Yours however is a much worse feeling no doubt, maybe you'd care to deliver a Le Pen line before the day is out

ouch

Which Tyler wrote:I see we still can't have political discussions without children throwing tantrums.

No one has thrown a tantrum but you have turned yet another thread into a whine fest about me.

I get it, you don't like me. The feeling is mutual.

But stop obsessing over it. It's pathetic.

UGagain wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:I see we still can't have political discussions without children throwing tantrums.

No one has thrown a tantrum but you have turned yet another thread into a whine fest about me.

I get it, you don't like me. The feeling is mutual.

But stop obsessing over it. It's pathetic.

Thanks for proving my point - again. Did you notice how discussion actually happened in your absence - again?

Shush now child, the adults are trying to talk.
Or do you just want to throw a tantrum and then complain that no-one's listening to you - again.

cashead wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Pretty much came to say this. He does appear genuine, he does have strong grassroots support, but he fucking sucks at politics, and he couldn't take the faction leaders and bang their heads together for the good of the party.

His genuineness certainly shone through during the referendum. Frankly it would have been better if he had campaigned with his heart.

Which Tyler wrote:

UGagain wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:I see we still can't have political discussions without children throwing tantrums.

No one has thrown a tantrum but you have turned yet another thread into a whine fest about me.

I get it, you don't like me. The feeling is mutual.

But stop obsessing over it. It's pathetic.

Thanks for proving my point - again. Did you notice how discussion actually happened in your absence - again?

Shush now child, the adults are trying to talk.
Or do you just want to throw a tantrum and then complain that no-one's listening to you - again.

You are pathetic. You're one of those causing the trouble.

You've personally attacked me again on false pretenses and now are complaining that I'm commenting and engaging in discussion on a thread that I started.

Do you people possess any self awareness?

It's truly absurd.

If you want an echo chamber, complain to Hammy and have me banned for not being right wing enough for your tastes.

Banquo wrote:

cashead wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Pretty much came to say this. He does appear genuine, he does have strong grassroots support, but he fucking sucks at politics, and he couldn't take the faction leaders and bang their heads together for the good of the party.

His genuineness certainly shone through during the referendum. Frankly it would have been better if he had campaigned with his heart.

He is personally opposed to the EU but was obliged to campaign for party policy. I don't think he claims to be a great actor.

fivepointer wrote:The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Half wouldn't be much of a problem. He managed 40 in the confidence vote out of 216.

The problem is that either he genuinely believes in Remain and did a fucking appalling job of convincing anyone to vote for it OR he's a closet Brexiteer and betrayed most of the party by pretending.

So he got 40 in the vote, how many are in his shadow cabinet - must be most of them if the cabinet is all loyal.

UGagain wrote:

Banquo wrote:

cashead wrote: Pretty much came to say this. He does appear genuine, he does have strong grassroots support, but he fucking sucks at politics, and he couldn't take the faction leaders and bang their heads together for the good of the party.

His genuineness certainly shone through during the referendum. Frankly it would have been better if he had campaigned with his heart.

He is personally opposed to the EU but was obliged to campaign for party policy. I don't think he claims to be a great actor.

exactly, this was well known, so if he is a genuine person, why try. It would have injected at least a little honesty into the debate.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Half wouldn't be much of a problem. He managed 40 in the confidence vote out of 216.

The problem is that either he genuinely believes in Remain and did a fucking appalling job of convincing anyone to vote for it OR he's a closet Brexiteer and betrayed most of the party by pretending.

He is known to be ideologically opposed to the EU. I agree, he should have campaigned against or stayed out of it (in fairness, that's what he effectively did).

As one of the few people on the board who is ACTUALLY a Labour Party activist and member, I think the whole thing is largely being misrepresented by the whining, facile Metro-liberals. This is a matter of survival. Labour is teetering on the edge of a precipice and the fucking cretin who dragged us there has done nothing to drag us away and present an image of a vibrant, fighting Labour Party that's ready to assume the reigns of power. The membership numbers are falling again, as I predicted they would, and those who have joined recently do nothing to further the aims of the Labour Party other than whine about Blairites and Red Tories. We can do without a load of spotty youths who think campaigning is posting a meme on Facebook, or engaging in a Twitter storm. So the sooner they fuck off and join whatever new youth revolution catches their fancy, the better. Where the fuck is Occupy anyway?

Banquo wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The constituency parties and the activists are to the left of the PLP. Thats been the case for years. Corbyn has struck a note with them and echoed many of the issues that concern them. He has wide, though diminishing, support amongst the membership.

Problem is he's basically an amateur and frankly (to use rugby terminology) doesnt have the skillset to be leader of a major political party. Ineffectual in Parliament, poor in the media (who he hates having to deal with), hopeless at driving policy and seemingly completely unable to bring even half of the PLP with him.

I think the remain campaign showed him in a poor light, and the MP's are rightly concerned that he simply isn't up to leading a GE campaign. Its not so much politics now; its a question of core competence that alarms a lot of people.

Half wouldn't be much of a problem. He managed 40 in the confidence vote out of 216.

The problem is that either he genuinely believes in Remain and did a fucking appalling job of convincing anyone to vote for it OR he's a closet Brexiteer and betrayed most of the party by pretending.

He is known to be ideologically opposed to the EU. I agree, he should have campaigned against or stayed out of it (in fairness, that's what he effectively did).

Labour Party policy is Remain. He has an obligation to carry out Labour Party policy. Instead he sabotaged it, because he is a "decent, honest man".

UKHamlet wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
Half wouldn't be much of a problem. He managed 40 in the confidence vote out of 216.

The problem is that either he genuinely believes in Remain and did a fucking appalling job of convincing anyone to vote for it OR he's a closet Brexiteer and betrayed most of the party by pretending.

He is known to be ideologically opposed to the EU. I agree, he should have campaigned against or stayed out of it (in fairness, that's what he effectively did).

Labour Party policy is Remain. He has an obligation to carry out Labour Party policy. Instead he sabotaged it, because he is a "decent, honest man".

I understand that, my argument was that he wasn't genuine during the campaign. We agree on the end result I guess.

Banquo wrote:

UGagain wrote:

Banquo wrote: His genuineness certainly shone through during the referendum. Frankly it would have been better if he had campaigned with his heart.

He is personally opposed to the EU but was obliged to campaign for party policy. I don't think he claims to be a great actor.

exactly, this was well known, so if he is a genuine person, why try. It would have injected at least a little honesty into the debate.

He was obliged to while he remained the leader. That's the rules as far as I can tell.

Difficult but it was what it was.

I don't believe that the Brexit decision is the real impetus behind the coup though.

It is quite absurd to blame JC for the result.

A majority of the British public are opposed to neoliberalism. Getting out of the EU is a precondition for getting rid of the neoliberal curse.

Maybe a lot of British people have thought that one through and the Rugby Rebels intelligentsia haven't.

The Blairites in the "Labour" Party don't seem to have noticed that they, themselves, are electoral poison. They've lost twice and been absolutely creamed in the leadership race.

When do these facts start to sink in?

UGagain wrote:

Banquo wrote:

UGagain wrote:
He is personally opposed to the EU but was obliged to campaign for party policy. I don't think he claims to be a great actor.

exactly, this was well known, so if he is a genuine person, why try. It would have injected at least a little honesty into the debate.

He was obliged to while he remained the leader. That's the rules as far as I can tell.

Difficult but it was what it was.

I don't believe that the Brexit decision is the real impetus behind the coup though.

It is quite absurd to blame JC for the result.

A majority of the British public are opposed to neoliberalism. Getting out of the EU is a precondition for getting rid of the neoliberal curse.

Maybe a lot of British people have thought that one through and the Rugby Rebels intelligentsia haven't.

The Blairites in the "Labour" Party don't seem to have noticed that they, themselves, are electoral poison. They've lost twice and been absolutely creamed in the leadership race.

When do these facts start to sink in?

True, painted into his own corner, but couldn't have made it much clearer that he didn't believe in the party line; tarnishes his created image imo, whatever the circumstances.

UKHamlet wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
Half wouldn't be much of a problem. He managed 40 in the confidence vote out of 216.

The problem is that either he genuinely believes in Remain and did a fucking appalling job of convincing anyone to vote for it OR he's a closet Brexiteer and betrayed most of the party by pretending.

He is known to be ideologically opposed to the EU. I agree, he should have campaigned against or stayed out of it (in fairness, that's what he effectively did).

Labour Party policy is Remain. He has an obligation to carry out Labour Party policy. Instead he sabotaged it, because he is a "decent, honest man".

How did he sabotage it?

That's ridiculous.

Banquo wrote:

UGagain wrote:

Banquo wrote: exactly, this was well known, so if he is a genuine person, why try. It would have injected at least a little honesty into the debate.

He was obliged to while he remained the leader. That's the rules as far as I can tell.

Difficult but it was what it was.

I don't believe that the Brexit decision is the real impetus behind the coup though.

It is quite absurd to blame JC for the result.

A majority of the British public are opposed to neoliberalism. Getting out of the EU is a precondition for getting rid of the neoliberal curse.

Maybe a lot of British people have thought that one through and the Rugby Rebels intelligentsia haven't.

The Blairites in the "Labour" Party don't seem to have noticed that they, themselves, are electoral poison. They've lost twice and been absolutely creamed in the leadership race.

When do these facts start to sink in?

True, painted into his own corner, but couldn't have made it much clearer that he didn't believe in the party line; tarnishes his created image imo, whatever the circumstances.

Short of resigning, what more could he do?

The principled, logical position from a labour/left perspective cannot be pro-EU.

Do the voters want another actor/charlatan like Blair to sell them to big capital?

I really don't think so.

UKHamlet wrote:As one of the few people on the board who is ACTUALLY a Labour Party activist and member, I think the whole thing is largely being misrepresented by the whining, facile Metro-liberals. This is a matter of survival. Labour is teetering on the edge of a precipice and the fucking cretin who dragged us there has done nothing to drag us away and present an image of a vibrant, fighting Labour Party that's ready to assume the reigns of power. The membership numbers are falling again, as I predicted they would, and those who have joined recently do nothing to further the aims of the Labour Party other than whine about Blairites and Red Tories. We can do without a load of spotty youths who think campaigning is posting a meme on Facebook, or engaging in a Twitter storm. So the sooner they fuck off and join whatever new youth revolution catches their fancy, the better. Where the fuck is Occupy anyway?

I thought you were a Lib Dem Hammy?

bruce wrote:

UKHamlet wrote:As one of the few people on the board who is ACTUALLY a Labour Party activist and member, I think the whole thing is largely being misrepresented by the whining, facile Metro-liberals. This is a matter of survival. Labour is teetering on the edge of a precipice and the fucking cretin who dragged us there has done nothing to drag us away and present an image of a vibrant, fighting Labour Party that's ready to assume the reigns of power. The membership numbers are falling again, as I predicted they would, and those who have joined recently do nothing to further the aims of the Labour Party other than whine about Blairites and Red Tories. We can do without a load of spotty youths who think campaigning is posting a meme on Facebook, or engaging in a Twitter storm. So the sooner they fuck off and join whatever new youth revolution catches their fancy, the better. Where the fuck is Occupy anyway?

I thought you were a Lib Dem Hammy?

I doubt many voted leave on the basis they were concerned the EU was a bastion of neoliberalism, indeed I doubt 50% of them could tell you what neoliberalism is, how to spell it and what 50% means. And perhaps I read the wrong articles and listen to the wrong news (mainly Radio 4 for me) but beyond one person on here I'm not sure I've heard the term neoliberalism used much in the last few years, about the EU or anything else.

How can a party have a leader who doesn't support such an important policy? Or, conversely, how could a party adopt a policy it's own leader didn't support. I would say that the right thing for him to have done was resign, or hold whatever musical chairs operation the UK Labour Party deems fit for a leadership election with remain/leave as an express issue.

He's crapping on about how he got voted in by whatever percent of the party but what percent of labour members voted remain?

Digby wrote:I doubt many voted leave on the basis they were concerned the EU was a bastion of neoliberalism, indeed I doubt 50% of them could tell you what neoliberalism is, how to spell it and what 50% means. And perhaps I read the wrong articles and listen to the wrong news (mainly Radio 4 for me) but beyond one person on here I'm not sure I've heard the term neoliberalism used much in the last few years, about the EU or anything else.

I genuinely laughed out loud at that.

There's nothing honest that I can say in response that wouldn't be considered an insult.

It's too stupid for words.

But you're condescending towards those who didn't vote your way. Astonishing.

UGagain wrote:

Banquo wrote:

UGagain wrote:
He was obliged to while he remained the leader. That's the rules as far as I can tell.

Difficult but it was what it was.

I don't believe that the Brexit decision is the real impetus behind the coup though.

It is quite absurd to blame JC for the result.

A majority of the British public are opposed to neoliberalism. Getting out of the EU is a precondition for getting rid of the neoliberal curse.

Maybe a lot of British people have thought that one through and the Rugby Rebels intelligentsia haven't.

The Blairites in the "Labour" Party don't seem to have noticed that they, themselves, are electoral poison. They've lost twice and been absolutely creamed in the leadership race.

When do these facts start to sink in?

True, painted into his own corner, but couldn't have made it much clearer that he didn't believe in the party line; tarnishes his created image imo, whatever the circumstances.

Short of resigning, what more could he do?

The principled, logical position from a labour/left perspective cannot be pro-EU.

Do the voters want another actor/charlatan like Blair to sell them to big capital?

I really don't think so.

resign or change the policy.