RugbyRebels

twitchy wrote:http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysi ... nd-at-six/

It is obvious that Itoje is further ahead in learning the game at lock than he is as a backrower. What is also obvious is how quickly the chap does learn. It is not just about fitting all the good players in, though. I believe that Itoje can be better at 6 or 7 than at 4 or 5. Playing him in the back-row may delay his promotion to captain until he is fully effective, perhaps.

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Strong case for Maro at 6. I'm sold. That way we can get Launchbury in the side and still have Lawes on the bench.

Why wouldn't you have Launch/Lawes starting and Kruis on the bench? Lawes is in superb form, Kruis is only just back from injury and not match sharp, and Launch/Lawes is a tried and tested combo, especially if we have to suffer Hartley at 2.

Puja

Agreed, but I can understand reluctance to omit Kruis based on his performances so far.

I just noticed another big hit from Lawes (on another poor halfback) on rugbydump. It has basically all his big hits tagged below. A very enjoyable way to spend 5 minutes.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2017/01/5523/c ... will-cliff

fivepointer wrote:Strong case for Maro at 6. I'm sold. That way we can get Launchbury in the side and still have Lawes on the bench.

Given one of Itoje's many strengths is his skill at forcing turnovers at the breakdown I'd like to see Eddy go for broke and pick him at 7 and I believe he will offer more in this role than Haskell would, whilst big is beautiful remains Eddy's view of the openside role.

Mikey Brown wrote:I just noticed another big hit from Lawes (on another poor halfback) on rugbydump. It has basically all his big hits tagged below. A very enjoyable way to spend 5 minutes.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2017/01/5523/c ... will-cliff

It's 'when' you make the hit that counts. CGS does the grunt work,.....but Launch and Maro do it when it really matters.

Teimana Harrison has been pretty epic these last few weeks. I wonder where he sits in the pecking order right now.

How has Mallinder been getting on since he came back?

TheNomad wrote:How has Mallinder been getting on since he came back?

Still talented at using the ball and annoyingly still soft as puppy-dog sh*te whenever there's a hint of contact that might not be 100% on his terms. Just watched the game tonight and he avoided being anywhere the ball was going when in defence and, when he couldn't get out of the way, made some of the limpest attempts I've ever seen at tackling. He's infuriating, cause he's got all the skills, but he's just so *wet*.

Puja

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote:How has Mallinder been getting on since he came back?

Still talented at using the ball and annoyingly still soft as puppy-dog sh*te whenever there's a hint of contact that might not be 100% on his terms. Just watched the game tonight and he avoided being anywhere the ball was going when in defence and, when he couldn't get out of the way, made some of the limpest attempts I've ever seen at tackling. He's infuriating, cause he's got all the skills, but he's just so *wet*.

Puja

Came to the same conclusion. Really good with the ball but that defence just isnt remotely good enough.

Harrison excellent again last night. On commentary they suggested he might play at 8 for England. You know that is not the worst suggestion I've heard.

I wonder if Saints have let the wrong Waller go. Ethan looked one heck of a player.

fivepointer wrote:

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote:How has Mallinder been getting on since he came back?

Still talented at using the ball and annoyingly still soft as puppy-dog sh*te whenever there's a hint of contact that might not be 100% on his terms. Just watched the game tonight and he avoided being anywhere the ball was going when in defence and, when he couldn't get out of the way, made some of the limpest attempts I've ever seen at tackling. He's infuriating, cause he's got all the skills, but he's just so *wet*.

Puja

I wonder if Saints have let the wrong Waller go. Ethan looked one heck of a player.

I remember hearing on the grapevine when A Waller first broke through that Ethan was rated even more highly. Still, they've got that world class lose head in the form of Ma'afu so nothing to worry about. Saints have now lost/let go of Waller and Hobbs-Ayowomi (spelling????) but have the rank average Ma'afu stinking up the place.

As for Mallinder being soft. At least he wasn't wearing a fluffy head band to keep his ears warm, a la Estelles. I hope he was mercilessly ripped to pieces after the match.

Mellsblue wrote:

fivepointer wrote:

Puja wrote:
Still talented at using the ball and annoyingly still soft as puppy-dog sh*te whenever there's a hint of contact that might not be 100% on his terms. Just watched the game tonight and he avoided being anywhere the ball was going when in defence and, when he couldn't get out of the way, made some of the limpest attempts I've ever seen at tackling. He's infuriating, cause he's got all the skills, but he's just so *wet*.

Puja

I wonder if Saints have let the wrong Waller go. Ethan looked one heck of a player.

I remember hearing on the grapevine when A Waller first broke through that Ethan was rated even more highly. Still, they've got that world class lose head in the form of Ma'afu so nothing to worry about. Saints have now lost/let go of Waller and Hobbs-Ayowomi (spelling????) but have the rank average Ma'afu stinking up the place.

As for Mallinder being soft. At least he wasn't wearing a fluffy head band to keep his ears warm, a la Estelles. I hope he was mercilessly ripped to pieces after the match.

Mind, if you're going to wear a fluffy headband, it's probably better to turn in a performance like that to stand some chance of recovering your dignity.

Puja

There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

twitchy wrote:There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

Absolutely. He's perhaps not dissimilar to Greenwood at such an age, and he went on to be useful. Always perhaps going to be a concern about how quickly he can move his feet with Mallinder, if he can't get into the right position he's going to struggle, especially given it'll be so easy for him to catch someone high in what's likely to be a card offence

twitchy wrote:There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

You can improve your defence, but unless anyone's got access to the Wizard of Oz, I'm not sure that you can give someone courage. It's not a technique or a size thing - it's an unwillingness to commit or put himself anywhere scary.

It's the same with his carrying - he'll take a preplanned and precalled crash ball no problem, but give him a ball in an unplanned play and he'll do anything to avoid taking it up. And I've seen him literally abandon a defensive ruck when a big man's coming in to clear out. It's a cojones failure and I can't see it being fixed while his dad is his coach.

Compare him to a young Cipriani who was a very poor defender due to technique rather than cowardice. Or Eastmond, who's half the size and twice the physical presence.

Puja

Puja wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

You can improve your defence, but unless anyone's got access to the Wizard of Oz, I'm not sure that you can give someone courage. It's not a technique or a size thing - it's an unwillingness to commit or put himself anywhere scary.

It's the same with his carrying - he'll take a preplanned and precalled crash ball no problem, but give him a ball in an unplanned play and he'll do anything to avoid taking it up. And I've seen him literally abandon a defensive ruck when a big man's coming in to clear out. It's a cojones failure and I can't see it being fixed while his dad is his coach.

Compare him to a young Cipriani who was a very poor defender due to technique rather than cowardice. Or Eastmond, who's half the size and twice the physical presence.

Puja

Young Cipriani was a mix of both. His technique was pap and his heart was missing. Mallinder is much the same. His heart is also missing at this level and his body position into contact is gash. He just needs a really good defence coach. You don't need magic to become brave, just he right coaching.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

You can improve your defence, but unless anyone's got access to the Wizard of Oz, I'm not sure that you can give someone courage. It's not a technique or a size thing - it's an unwillingness to commit or put himself anywhere scary.

It's the same with his carrying - he'll take a preplanned and precalled crash ball no problem, but give him a ball in an unplanned play and he'll do anything to avoid taking it up. And I've seen him literally abandon a defensive ruck when a big man's coming in to clear out. It's a cojones failure and I can't see it being fixed while his dad is his coach.

Compare him to a young Cipriani who was a very poor defender due to technique rather than cowardice. Or Eastmond, who's half the size and twice the physical presence.

Puja

Young Cipriani was a mix of both. His technique was pap and his heart was missing. Mallinder is much the same. His heart is also missing at this level and his body position into contact is gash. He just needs a really good defence coach. You don't need magic to become brave, just he right coaching.

See C Hodgson at Sarries.

Or James Short, who was a total nonce as a defender.

Short, TMO and ref killing the enjoyment of this game. Oscar award for Bendy as well

Mellsblue wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:
You can improve your defence, but unless anyone's got access to the Wizard of Oz, I'm not sure that you can give someone courage. It's not a technique or a size thing - it's an unwillingness to commit or put himself anywhere scary.

It's the same with his carrying - he'll take a preplanned and precalled crash ball no problem, but give him a ball in an unplanned play and he'll do anything to avoid taking it up. And I've seen him literally abandon a defensive ruck when a big man's coming in to clear out. It's a cojones failure and I can't see it being fixed while his dad is his coach.

Compare him to a young Cipriani who was a very poor defender due to technique rather than cowardice. Or Eastmond, who's half the size and twice the physical presence.

Puja

Young Cipriani was a mix of both. His technique was pap and his heart was missing. Mallinder is much the same. His heart is also missing at this level and his body position into contact is gash. He just needs a really good defence coach. You don't need magic to become brave, just he right coaching.

See C Hodgson at Sarries.

I don't think Charlie was ever a bad defender, he just got that label for not being Jonny Wilkinson, and for getting flattened by Nonu just like everybody else.

Would fearns have been a got fit for this 6N?

I R Geech wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
Young Cipriani was a mix of both. His technique was pap and his heart was missing. Mallinder is much the same. His heart is also missing at this level and his body position into contact is gash. He just needs a really good defence coach. You don't need magic to become brave, just he right coaching.

See C Hodgson at Sarries.

I don't think Charlie was ever a bad defender, he just got that label for not being Jonny Wilkinson, and for getting flattened by Nonu just like everybody else.

I didn't say he was a bad defender but his aggression in the tackle and his willingness to put himself in places where he needed to tackle improved when he went to Sarries.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

twitchy wrote:There is still loads of time for mallinder, he's only 20. You can improve your defence.

You can improve your defence, but unless anyone's got access to the Wizard of Oz, I'm not sure that you can give someone courage. It's not a technique or a size thing - it's an unwillingness to commit or put himself anywhere scary.

It's the same with his carrying - he'll take a preplanned and precalled crash ball no problem, but give him a ball in an unplanned play and he'll do anything to avoid taking it up. And I've seen him literally abandon a defensive ruck when a big man's coming in to clear out. It's a cojones failure and I can't see it being fixed while his dad is his coach.

Compare him to a young Cipriani who was a very poor defender due to technique rather than cowardice. Or Eastmond, who's half the size and twice the physical presence.

Puja

Young Cipriani was a mix of both. His technique was pap and his heart was missing. Mallinder is much the same. His heart is also missing at this level and his body position into contact is gash. He just needs a really good defence coach. You don't need magic to become brave, just he right coaching.

Actually disagree. Pre-injury, Cips' defence was actually very good, as was his attitude. Witness that great tackle on the rampaging Tuilagi in the H Cup final.

He lost all of that after the injury

fivepointer wrote:

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote:How has Mallinder been getting on since he came back?

Still talented at using the ball and annoyingly still soft as puppy-dog sh*te whenever there's a hint of contact that might not be 100% on his terms. Just watched the game tonight and he avoided being anywhere the ball was going when in defence and, when he couldn't get out of the way, made some of the limpest attempts I've ever seen at tackling. He's infuriating, cause he's got all the skills, but he's just so *wet*.

Puja

Harrison excellent again last night. On commentary they suggested he might play at 8 for England. You know that is not the worst suggestion I've heard.

I would worry that Harrison's a bit underpowered
to play 8 at test level, but would certainly see him as a handy 6 cover for injured Robshaw and his ball carrying and mobility would nicely complement Itoje's breakdown work and line out work if latter picked at 7.

Not sure why we are even hinting at Harrison starting, let alone at 8.

Haskell and Clifford not travelled with rest of squad to Portugal…

How's Beaumont been doing this season? Worth pulling in to the training squad?

Are there players outside of the EPS worth calling up or are we stuck with some combination of Harrison, Hughes, Williams, Wood (And Itoje)