RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:17 pm Tigers announced Josh Bassett, Jamie Shillcock, Kyle Hatherhall and Fin Theobald-Thomas as signings for next season. All fit areas of need nicely.

That's a sudden flurry of signings out of nowhere! Very pleased by Shillcock and Theobald-Thomas, not sure about Bassett and Hatherall. Bassett's quality, but the wrong side of 30 and I suspect that his signing rules out OHC, who I would've preferred (and if we do end up going for OHC, do we especially need Bassett?). Willing to be proven wrong though and he is a good Prem player.

Hatherall strikes me as a bit meh - one of those players who overachieved at Worcester and might not produce elsewhere - like Denton or Kitchener or Williams. Plus it's not an area that we're lacking in young academy talent to back up the main talent.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:28 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:17 pm Tigers announced Josh Bassett, Jamie Shillcock, Kyle Hatherhall and Fin Theobald-Thomas as signings for next season. All fit areas of need nicely.

That's a sudden flurry of signings out of nowhere! Very pleased by Shillcock and Theobald-Thomas, not sure about Bassett and Hatherall. Bassett's quality, but the wrong side of 30 and I suspect that his signing rules out OHC, who I would've preferred (and if we do end up going for OHC, do we especially need Bassett?). Willing to be proven wrong though and he is a good Prem player.

Hatherall strikes me as a bit meh - one of those players who overachieved at Worcester and might not produce elsewhere - like Denton or Kitchener or Williams. Plus it's not an area that we're lacking in young academy talent to back up the main talent.

Puja

By all accounts on Hatherall he's played well for La Rochelle and they were hopeful of keeping him. With the world cup and regular call ups for Weise, Reffell and Chessum (at least) then having someone that can play flanker and lock is very useful. Not to mention the attrition in that position. Considering he's likely to replace Snyman in the squad it should also facilitate more game time for the young guys coming through at lock.

Thinking ahead to the world cup a backrow of Martin/Cracknell/Liebenburg with Hatherall on the bench gives us a good physical combination. Ilione to supplement openside and Jansen well he's got a way to go based on recent performances. The other flankers around the development squad are still only just in under 20 level.

Signing - replacing
Hatherall - Snyman
Bassett - Ashton
Shillcock - Hegarty

That's all good business as far as I'm concerned. I think OHC is only coming if Watson is off as nice as it would be to see them on either wing and Steward at 15.

Theobald Thomas just makes sense because adding an under 20 front row is normally worth a punt. Hopefully it means Vanes is getting to the point where he can be trusted in the first team.

OHC is done deal and has been for a while from what I hear, I don't even think Bassett and OHC will be the only wingers coming in either
Nadolo's replacement.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:40 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:28 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:17 pm Tigers announced Josh Bassett, Jamie Shillcock, Kyle Hatherhall and Fin Theobald-Thomas as signings for next season. All fit areas of need nicely.

That's a sudden flurry of signings out of nowhere! Very pleased by Shillcock and Theobald-Thomas, not sure about Bassett and Hatherall. Bassett's quality, but the wrong side of 30 and I suspect that his signing rules out OHC, who I would've preferred (and if we do end up going for OHC, do we especially need Bassett?). Willing to be proven wrong though and he is a good Prem player.

Hatherall strikes me as a bit meh - one of those players who overachieved at Worcester and might not produce elsewhere - like Denton or Kitchener or Williams. Plus it's not an area that we're lacking in young academy talent to back up the main talent.

Puja

By all accounts on Hatherall he's played well for La Rochelle and they were hopeful of keeping him. With the world cup and regular call ups for Weise, Reffell and Chessum (at least) then having someone that can play flanker and lock is very useful. Not to mention the attrition in that position. Considering he's likely to replace Snyman in the squad it should also facilitate more game time for the young guys coming through at lock.

Thinking ahead to the world cup a backrow of Martin/Cracknell/Liebenburg with Hatherall on the bench gives us a good physical combination. Ilione to supplement openside and Jansen well he's got a way to go based on recent performances. The other flankers around the development squad are still only just in under 20 level.

It's what happens after the RWC that bothers me. If we've got Reffell, Liebenberg, Cracknell, Martin, and Hatherell, with options for Chessum/Wells as well, then that's a long list before Ilione gets a game.

Tigersman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:33 pm OHC is done deal and has been for a while from what I hear, I don't even think Bassett and OHC will be the only wingers coming in either
Nadolo's replacement.

Well, that's good to hear. I wasn't overly impressed when we were originally linked with OHC, but his form this year has convinced me that I was very wrong.

Puja

Yeah Puja I do see the hindrance to Ilione getting game time but thankfully he's signed a new deal so some sort of development plan must be agreed. I would hope he starts to push through at openside, Reffell will be away with Wales for a third of every season and likely also miss the start of every season following the summer tour. We need a more specialist 7 than Cracknell, he's very useful as a player but not the best jackler. I'm hoping Ilione will push through there, especially if the new head coach is one that's going to push the attack.

Martin IMO will be transitioned to Lock now.

Seemed like he’d just settled at 6 really. Is he big enough for lock? Obviously he’s big, but he’s looking to be an England player right?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:31 am Seemed like he’d just settled at 6 really. Is he big enough for lock? Obviously he’s big, but he’s looking to be an England player right?

He's 6'6 and 18st 8, so he's bigger than Itoje. Incidentally, while looking up those stats, I came across his Wikipedia page (which I can't believe he hasn't edited at some point) which says, "His preferred position is lock, but he also plays back row."

I'll be very pleased if he does settle at lock, for the same reason I want Chessum there - rangy 6s are a dime a dozen, but if he can play lock while keeping that mobility and intensity in defence, that's much rarer and much more useful.

Future Leicester pack featuring Theobald-Thomas, Hoyt, Martin, Chessum, Ilione - very useful spine indeed.

Puja

Well fair enough, would have guessed quite a lot smaller than that, perhaps because (despite the way he hits) he does actually look quite light on his feet.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:58 am Well fair enough, would have guessed quite a lot smaller than that, perhaps because (despite the way he hits) he does actually look quite light on his feet.

Tbh, I was getting ready to defend him as being, "surely that's big enough" until I saw the actual stats and realised they defended themselves. He's more mobile than those figures would suggest, even allowing for a little bit of inflation of statistics.

Puja

Hatherall is, to my mind, significantly better than the other guys you mention Puja. Different calibre of player.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:07 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:58 am Well fair enough, would have guessed quite a lot smaller than that, perhaps because (despite the way he hits) he does actually look quite light on his feet.

Tbh, I was getting ready to defend him as being, "surely that's big enough" until I saw the actual stats and realised they defended themselves. He's more mobile than those figures would suggest, even allowing for a little bit of inflation of statistics.

Puja

He's spent some time working on his acceleration and agility. He was up at Loughborough University training over the summer with some of the sprint coaches. It was one of his work ons from England that he needed to improve his footwork before contact.

He does pack down as a tighthead lock which is always sought after and he hits like a train. Quite frankly versatility is useful though so I can see him specialising though I can see him playing a bit more lock to become more of a hybrid.

I'm also fairly certain he's been listed as 18 stone 8 for some time so might actually be heavier than that now.

According to this article in L'Equipe, Richard Cockerill's name is in the hat to become Montpellier's forwards' coach next season.

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... er/1374325

Cockers speaks fluent French and Montpellier's forwards look like they need a kick up the backside so makes lots of sense.

Brive are said to be rather interested in signing Billy Vunipola - and so are Racing, apparently.

When do we just rename the Premiership to Rugby Pro D3?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:01 pm When do we just rename the Premiership to Rugby Pro D3?

When RICH LANE!!! abandons us.

Puja

First Bristol transfer rumor in awhile, and one to file under "believe it when it happens":

Beauden Barrett being talked to as the the next marquee player. But only if
1) he plays 12
2) Semi stays (so would need to go into the cap)

From a poster with tenuous connections to the Highlanders set up.

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:28 pm First Bristol transfer rumor in awhile, and one to file under "believe it when it happens":

Beauden Barrett being talked to as the the next marquee player. But only if
1) he plays 12
2) Semi stays (so would need to go into the cap)

From a poster with tenuous connections to the Highlanders set up.

Does Beauden even play 12?!

Puja

francoisfou wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:39 pm Brive are said to be rather interested in signing Billy Vunipola - and so are Racing, apparently.

Would be interesting to see Billy playing under Lancaster again. Think he’s been fairly critical of Lancaster at times in recent years.

The idea that you sign Barrett and shuffle him out to accommodate MacGinty…

According to this article in Midi Olympique, Union Bordeaux/Bègles are actively pursuing the signature of Jack Willis.
One would think that this is pie in the sky as Willis would be a shoo-in for the World Cup squad and a lengthy England career after, and with the current eligibility regulations, he'd be obliged to find a Premiership club for next season.
But maybe this signals a relaxation in these regulations which'd permit Willis to remain in France?

francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:04 pm According to this article in Midi Olympique, Union Bordeaux/Bègles are actively pursuing the signature of Jack Willis.
One would think that this is pie in the sky as Willis would be a shoo-in for the World Cup squad and a lengthy England career after, and with the current eligibility regulations, he'd be obliged to find a Premiership club for next season.
But maybe this signals a relaxation in these regulations which'd permit Willis to remain in France?

If he plays most of the 6N and becomes a key cog in the England team, you'd assume it is pie in the sky. Or, at least, that they may be actively pursuing it, but he'll turn them down.

However, you can't blame him for at least feeling things out, given his previous history of being the best player in the Prem and getting 3 minutes off the bench for England. Okay, so that was the last regime, but I'd imagine he's still got one eye out there.

Can't see the regulations changing. The clubs don't want it and I can't imagine Borthwick wants it, given the disruption it's already caused.

Puja

Would an English club be able to afford Willis and remain under the cap currently? I'm unclear, although I suspect the Wasps/Wuss lot will all be given special dispensation. I'm not so sure that relaxing the rules isn't such a bad idea for the short-term, given English rugby is now losing players with the stature of Vunipola, Simmonds, Cowan-Dickie, Nowell etc. Yes, we want England's stars playing in the Prem and the lure of an England cap is a strong one, but economically at the moment English rugby just isn't in a place to compete with the bigger URC and French clubs and on the field England isn't New Zealand, which can absorb multiple players heading overseas as there's usually three or four quality options bubbling under the surface just waiting for a chance. I'm a supporter of the policy to only pick players who play here, but at the moment it's possibly unrealistic to enforce. South Africa and Argentina show that it's still possible to compete without an iron grip on your entire playing base, for example.

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:18 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:17 pm Would an English club be able to afford Willis and remain under the cap currently? I'm unclear, although I suspect the Wasps/Wuss lot will all be given special dispensation. I'm not so sure that relaxing the rules isn't such a bad idea for the short-term, given English rugby is now losing players with the stature of Vunipola, Simmonds, Cowan-Dickie, Nowell etc. Yes, we want England's stars playing in the Prem and the lure of an England cap is a strong one (see: Mercer), but economically at the moment English rugby just isn't in a place to compete with the bigger URC and French clubs and on the field England isn't New Zealand, which can absorb multiple players heading overseas as there's usually three or four quality options bubbling under the surface just waiting for a chance. I'm a supporter of the policy to only pick players who play here, but at the moment it's possibly unrealistic to enforce. South Africa and Argentina show that it's still possible to compete without an iron grip on your entire playing base, for example.

I feel like the players listed, at that stage in their careers, going to France isn’t that big a deal to be honest? Would be nice to keep LCD because we haven’t really looked at many other option behind him and George, but I feel like the rule has kept a lot of good players in the premiership.

Mercer (and Marchant you could argue) only really gone due to being shut out at international level by one specific coach.