RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

rowan wrote: I'd go out on a limb and suggest most people in the Middle East would. That's because I live here, talk to the locals every day, speaking their language and read the local press. So you think ISIS has been attacking Sunni majority Turkey when they have a pro-Sunni agenda? If you came here and spouted that nonsense you'd been laughed out of town.

So who's the hypocrite here?

That's quite a specific point you're choosing to contest about ISIS attacking Turkey, I'm not off the top of my sold I'll have ever made the point you're countering either. For what it's worth I don't think the people of the Middle East will speak with one voice, so some will agree with you and some not, and there are a lot of problems in the Middle East even before the actions of the west are considered, or put another way of the west vanished tomorrow it wouldn't mean peace in the Middle East as they're fighting for lots of reason only some of which are actions or perceived actions of the west.

Right, self-appointed expert on all things Middle Eastern, tell us what the people of this region are fighting over which is not the result, directly or indirectly, of the West. I'd be interested in your views on this.

Meanwhile, Turkey - according to the mainsteam media's propaganda - has been one of the primary targets for ISIS attacks, so this is a very useful case study. Again, why on earth would ISIS attack a Sunni Muslim stronghold? Why hasn't it officially claimed most of the attacks attributed to it. Concidentally, Turkey is still actively bombing people in Syria, and has reacted angrily to American support for Kurdish militants who were to the fore in fighting so-called ISIS (Saudi's Jihadis & America's mercenaries). It's a ridiculous notion that falls apart under scrutiny and thereby begins to unravel the entire 'ISIS' narrative...

There have been conflicts across the Middle East going back centuries, which we can still see now with the Kurds or the still more obvious problems which manifest between Sunnis and Shias, and of course a lot of people just want to grab whatever power they can in their area and then grow that power base as happens everywhere.

Certainly people being radicalised because of the actions of the West is a real thing, so too people being radicalised because of what they're told about the west even if it's not true or is based on some questionable moral assertions, but it's nowhere near the only problem

Digby wrote:There have been conflicts across the Middle East going back centuries, which we can still see now with the Kurds or the still more obvious problems which manifest between Sunnis and Shias, and of course a lot of people just want to grab whatever power they can in their area and then grow that power base as happens everywhere.

Certainly people being radicalised because of the actions of the West is a real thing, so too people being radicalised because of what they're told about the west even if it's not true or is based on some questionable moral assertions, but it's nowhere near the only problem

But you do understand the drawing up of borders by the British and the French almost a century ago created many of these conflicts and revived many others which had been long dormant. Ever heard of the Pax Ottomanica? What is going on today is very much the result of British and French imperialist greed and arrogance.

Trump has arrived at just the right time, too much liberality in politics at the moment, we need people like him to turn the tide. Nationalism is not a bad thing, and in these uncertain times nationalism can stem the tide of radical islam, because from where I'm sitting nothing else will.

We need another Trump in Europe, perhaps wins for Le Pen and Geert Wilders will bring the change in Europe that it desperately needs.

I smell bullshit...

I like Trump and I'm not afraid to say it, I also like the travel ban he put in place, hopefully common sense prevails, and the ridiculous order to suspend the ban is lifted.

What we are seeing in America, and other countries is the biggest, longest lasting hissy fit of all time, by people who wanted Clinton as president, or if the truth was known they couldn't care less about Clinton, they just wanted a woman as president.

Lord Lucan wrote:I like Trump and I'm not afraid to say it, I also like the travel ban he put in place, hopefully common sense prevails, and the ridiculous order to suspend the ban is lifted.

What we are seeing in America, and other countries is the biggest, longest lasting hissy fit of all time, by people who wanted Clinton as president, or if the truth was known they couldn't care less about Clinton, they just wanted a woman as president.

Who, or what is this 'Clinton' you talk about?

This is more like it

Good news for Arizona. They've won the 7nm chip production facility. Well done.

WaspInWales wrote:

Lord Lucan wrote:I like Trump and I'm not afraid to say it, I also like the travel ban he put in place, hopefully common sense prevails, and the ridiculous order to suspend the ban is lifted.

What we are seeing in America, and other countries is the biggest, longest lasting hissy fit of all time, by people who wanted Clinton as president, or if the truth was known they couldn't care less about Clinton, they just wanted a woman as president.

Who, or what is this 'Clinton' you talk about?

Yer wan that's married to a sexual predator, armed jihadists, hangs out with celebrity libtards, and failed to become the first female president of the USA.

Vengeful Glutton wrote:Good news for Arizona. They've won the 7nm chip production facility. Well done.

They'll need Mexican labour to build that.

Why is it that when someone 'associates' themselves with the baby hands Trump, their suits fail to fit properly...just like the orange twat himself?

Anyway, not sure if this is legit or not:
http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/8/145516 ... nouncement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... nvestment/

Probably just more fake news.

WaspInWales wrote:Why is it that when someone 'associates' themselves with the baby hands Trump, their suits fail to fit properly...just like the orange twat himself?

Anyway, not sure if this is legit or not:
http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/8/145516 ... nouncement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... nvestment/

Probably just more fake news.

Why not? Everyone settles a 7 billion dollar investment in two weeks, don't they?

What is wrong with you? Are you a commie?

morepork wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:Why is it that when someone 'associates' themselves with the baby hands Trump, their suits fail to fit properly...just like the orange twat himself?

Anyway, not sure if this is legit or not:
http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/8/145516 ... nouncement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... nvestment/

Probably just more fake news.

Why not? Everyone settles a 7 billion dollar investment in two weeks, don't they?

What is wrong with you? Are you a commie?

Da, I mean net.

Killary is back in the news, claiming the future is female. She looks like she is made of wax, she is becoming more hideous looking than ever, and she is clearly becoming more demented as time goes on.

The future is female is it Killary? well take a look at Sweden, feminists have been running that country for years. They have taken what was once one of the best countries in Europe, with one of the highest standards of living, and turned it into a crime ridden shit hole, thats been dubbed the rape capital of the world, way to go girls. And if this isn't bad enough, they are busy hiding all the crime statistics, because they are in such denial on what a monumental pigs ear they have made by allowing massive unvetted migration from the middle east. This isn't going to end well.

Hmmm,

In other news, Sessions is confirmed as AG. 52-47.

#Landslide.

This is all a little too obvious???

Lord Lucan wrote:Killary is back in the news, claiming the future is female. She looks like she is made of wax, she is becoming more hideous looking than ever, and she is clearly becoming more demented as time goes on.

The future is female is it Killary? well take a look at Sweden, feminists have been running that country for years. They have taken what was once one of the best countries in Europe, with one of the highest standards of living, and turned it into a crime ridden shit hole, thats been dubbed the rape capital of the world, way to go girls. And if this isn't bad enough, they are busy hiding all the crime statistics, because they are in such denial on what a monumental pigs ear they have made by allowing massive unvetted migration from the middle east. This isn't going to end well.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... women.html

The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."

"One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."

canta_brian wrote:

Lord Lucan wrote:Killary is back in the news, claiming the future is female. She looks like she is made of wax, she is becoming more hideous looking than ever, and she is clearly becoming more demented as time goes on.

The future is female is it Killary? well take a look at Sweden, feminists have been running that country for years. They have taken what was once one of the best countries in Europe, with one of the highest standards of living, and turned it into a crime ridden shit hole, thats been dubbed the rape capital of the world, way to go girls. And if this isn't bad enough, they are busy hiding all the crime statistics, because they are in such denial on what a monumental pigs ear they have made by allowing massive unvetted migration from the middle east. This isn't going to end well.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... women.html

The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."

"One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."

Cozy corner.

Back in the real world, brutally rape 2 children in Sweden, get 2 months jail. https://gatestone.eu/sweden-immigrant-sentence/

Just before Christmas last year, a refugee from Syria forced a 13-year-old girl whom he met through Snapchat into the bathroom of a school in Northern Sweden. He locked the door and, according to the indictment, raped her, both vaginally and anally. After the rape, the man threatened the girl with violent reprisals if she would tell anyone. When apprehended, he stated to the police that the “sex was voluntary.” However, the forensic pathologist found that the girl had injuries consistent with her story. Nonetheless, he was acquitted of abuse, as the court said it was unclear what exactly was said.Shortly after this rape went to trial, he was indicted for a separate case, in which he was accused of raping a 14-year-old. He had known her a few days, and according to him, their intercourse was also voluntary. This time, the District Court agreed with him, even though the girl is below Sweden’s age of consent, as she would only turn 15 in a few weeks. This was close enough for the judge, however, so he concluded it wasn’t rape, just sexual exploitation of a child.The masterstroke of justice had yet to come. At trial, the man told the court that, despite the Immigration Board’s verdict that he was born in 1998, he was actually born in 1999. Which made him seventeen, at the time of the crimes. The judge concluded that he was probably telling the truth, so he was tried as a minor. He got a reduced sentence, which means a man who raped two girls younger than 15 years old, got away with a prison sentence of only two months and probation. Go Sweden!

You won't find poor Maria Ladenburger on the BBC, either ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of ... adenburger

loudnconfident wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Lord Lucan wrote:Killary is back in the news, claiming the future is female. She looks like she is made of wax, she is becoming more hideous looking than ever, and she is clearly becoming more demented as time goes on.

The future is female is it Killary? well take a look at Sweden, feminists have been running that country for years. They have taken what was once one of the best countries in Europe, with one of the highest standards of living, and turned it into a crime ridden shit hole, thats been dubbed the rape capital of the world, way to go girls. And if this isn't bad enough, they are busy hiding all the crime statistics, because they are in such denial on what a monumental pigs ear they have made by allowing massive unvetted migration from the middle east. This isn't going to end well.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... women.html

The xenophobic fear of the "other" is not limited to Sweden, certainly. In the United States, presumed Republican nominee Donald Trump made headlines around the world after describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists."

"One of the ghosts of all kinds of racial prejudices is allegations of sexual crimes against women," Sarnecki said, noting that in the 19th and 20th centuries many African-American men were executed based on (often unproven) allegations of raping white women. "It's an old, very well-used argument against immigrants."

Cozy corner.

Back in the real world, brutally rape 2 children in Sweden, get 2 months jail. https://gatestone.eu/sweden-immigrant-sentence/

Just before Christmas last year, a refugee from Syria forced a 13-year-old girl whom he met through Snapchat into the bathroom of a school in Northern Sweden. He locked the door and, according to the indictment, raped her, both vaginally and anally. After the rape, the man threatened the girl with violent reprisals if she would tell anyone. When apprehended, he stated to the police that the “sex was voluntary.” However, the forensic pathologist found that the girl had injuries consistent with her story. Nonetheless, he was acquitted of abuse, as the court said it was unclear what exactly was said.Shortly after this rape went to trial, he was indicted for a separate case, in which he was accused of raping a 14-year-old. He had known her a few days, and according to him, their intercourse was also voluntary. This time, the District Court agreed with him, even though the girl is below Sweden’s age of consent, as she would only turn 15 in a few weeks. This was close enough for the judge, however, so he concluded it wasn’t rape, just sexual exploitation of a child.The masterstroke of justice had yet to come. At trial, the man told the court that, despite the Immigration Board’s verdict that he was born in 1998, he was actually born in 1999. Which made him seventeen, at the time of the crimes. The judge concluded that he was probably telling the truth, so he was tried as a minor. He got a reduced sentence, which means a man who raped two girls younger than 15 years old, got away with a prison sentence of only two months and probation. Go Sweden!

You won't find poor Maria Ladenburger on the BBC, either ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of ... adenburger

You didn't read the entire article in the link did you.

Edit: Nice first ever post outside of the rugby boards by the way. Good of you to realise that everything posted here has to be in black or white, with no room for any nuance.

canta_brian wrote: You didn't read the entire article in the link did you.

Unfortunately I did. Its truly shocking how little they care:
"Jerzy Sarnecki, a professor of criminology at Stockholm University, told The Daily Beast. "According to studies which I have done on general crime, most of the differences in recorded crimes between immigrants and Swedes are explained by socioeconomic factors. It doesn't mean of course, that one, a few, or several other incidents of that kind [sexual assaults perpetuated by immigrants] didn't happen.Young men coming from the Middle East confronting the much more open way of behavior of Swedish women may have, from time to time, committed acts which are criminal,"

A nicely "nuanced" way of putting it.

canta_brian wrote: Edit: Nice first ever post outside of the rugby boards by the way.

You're welcome

canta_brian wrote: Good of you to realise that everything posted here has to be in black or white, with no room for any nuance.

When it comes to rape and murder, I'm afraid I have no room for nuance at all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35406072

And much like the BBC piece above, the daily beast also mentions the concerns in Sweden surrounding the gender imbalance in the asylum seeking demographics.

It also mentions that reported rape cases went down between 2013 and 2014. As horrifying as individual cases can be, I don't think anyone has tried to argue otherwise, using them in place of statistics will give a skewed picture of what is happening.

My post was in response to Lord Lucan's one suggesting that having women in power has lead to Sweden seeing becoming the rape capital of the world. Read his post again and if you agree with its misogyny then come out and say so. Don't hide behind the tragic deaths of some individual Swedish women to try and make a cheap point.

People that make statements on population patterns based on a case-by-case analysis should probably get themselves back to school.

Jesus wept, that Swedish rape crisis in reality. This took about 3 mins with a simple google search...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinio ... ice=mobile

Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany's more limited laws, it would be zero cases. In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape

Wahey. Statistics and variables. BOOM.