New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[FKAS]

Would have helped Tigers if Steward had been given a new deal as his contract is up for renewal this year. As there's a limited number of contracts to hand out I think it's a good idea not to be handing out deals to depth options or older guys like Cole and Marler who you are expecting to be pushed out of the squad by younger options in the next 12 months.

If his agent's got half a brain, they'll spend the next 3 months flogging him to every French club going - not because he actually intends to go, but to drum up enough noise and fear to get him the 18th contract to keep him in the country.

Puja

I think Steward got a decent contract last time out because Chiefs were interested and his agent leaked that to every journalist going to get him a good deal at Tigers. If Steward has any brains he'll bin off his agent, keep the 10% or whatever the cut is and just sign a three year deal at Tigers on what he was on last time out plus a small uplift for "inflation".

Keeps playing like he is and the England contract will come.

[Banquo]

Would have helped Tigers if Steward had been given a new deal as his contract is up for renewal this year. As there's a limited number of contracts to hand out I think it's a good idea not to be handing out deals to depth options or older guys like Cole and Marler who you are expecting to be pushed out of the squad by younger options in the next 12 months.

I think Stuart, Baxter and JvP are all a touch unlucky. JvP yeah is another depth pick but pre injury he was England's go to 9 and is still only 23 and now a vice captain at his club and back in form. Seems a reasonable horse to bet on. Similar with Baxter it would be a depth pick but let's keep the obvious future of England's loosehead position tied down, the kid has got it.

Agreed on not giving contracts to ancient props, my point being that’s it’s a concern there aren’t yet any props outside Genge in their prime that we can contract.

[Puja]

Would have helped Tigers if Steward had been given a new deal as his contract is up for renewal this year. As there's a limited number of contracts to hand out I think it's a good idea not to be handing out deals to depth options or older guys like Cole and Marler who you are expecting to be pushed out of the squad by younger options in the next 12 months.

I think Stuart, Baxter and JvP are all a touch unlucky. JvP yeah is another depth pick but pre injury he was England's go to 9 and is still only 23 and now a vice captain at his club and back in form. Seems a reasonable horse to bet on. Similar with Baxter it would be a depth pick but let's keep the obvious future of England's loosehead position tied down, the kid has got it.

Agreed on not giving contracts to ancient props, my point being that’s it’s a concern there aren’t yet any props outside Genge in their prime that we can contract.

Frankly, given that the (alleged) whole point of these contracts is to guide players development and make sure their game-time is managed for long-term benefit, I'm astounded that they haven't given them to AOF, and Fasogbon. Even if it's only a 1 year contract, surely England want a voice in the room making sure those two aren't run into the ground?

Puja

[Banquo]

Would have helped Tigers if Steward had been given a new deal as his contract is up for renewal this year. As there's a limited number of contracts to hand out I think it's a good idea not to be handing out deals to depth options or older guys like Cole and Marler who you are expecting to be pushed out of the squad by younger options in the next 12 months.

I think Stuart, Baxter and JvP are all a touch unlucky. JvP yeah is another depth pick but pre injury he was England's go to 9 and is still only 23 and now a vice captain at his club and back in form. Seems a reasonable horse to bet on. Similar with Baxter it would be a depth pick but let's keep the obvious future of England's loosehead position tied down, the kid has got it.

Agreed on not giving contracts to ancient props, my point being that’s it’s a concern there aren’t yet any props outside Genge in their prime that we can contract.

Frankly, given that the (alleged) whole point of these contracts is to guide players development and make sure their game-time is managed for long-term benefit, I'm astounded that they haven't given them to AOF, and Fasogbon. Even if it's only a 1 year contract, surely England want a voice in the room making sure those two aren't run into the ground?

Puja

Another angle on why it’s a bit odd. Slade doesn’t need one either

[Which Tyler]

Frankly, given that the (alleged) whole point of these contracts is to guide players development and make sure their game-time is managed for long-term benefit, I'm astounded that they haven't given them to AOF, and Fasogbon. Even if it's only a 1 year contract, surely England want a voice in the room making sure those two aren't run into the ground?

Excellent point.

On Steward, I'm still trying to square the circle here, of "don't give contracts to depth picks" alongside "do give a contract to Steward, who's not starting, and not going to make any benches"

Also worth remembering that we've been told a few times that players won't have their feet held to the fire over contracts, which pay less than PAYG match fees. We always expected a number of players to decline, we just didn't have a clue what that number would be.

From a Bath perspective, Underhill is the one I'm disappointed in not getting a contract. He starts when fit, and needs his playing time managed. Of course, he may be one who declined, but if so, I'd say that was a poor decision.

[Scrumhead]

Tom Willis with another imperious display. How is he not in the England squad?

I would have thought his style of play would be irresistible to Borthwick.

[p/d]

Stonking player. Everything about his play points to being a menace at test level.

[Banquo]

Marler has retired again

[Mellsblue]

I do wonder if the RFU are holding Dan Cole hostage.

[Mikey Brown]

Marler has retired again

Unsurprising. Doesn’t help himself at times, but overall a great career. Probably about time, with a good few younger and more dynamic props about, and I’m sure he’ll continue to be great for Baxter’s progress.

[Mr Mwenda]

Yes, he did his bit but I do think it's good now to move on from the carry on that he often attracts.

[jimKRFC]

Bristol sign Oscar Lennon as short term injury cover (Wolstenholme has done his knee). Nice to have him back, always liked like he could have challenged Uren/Randell.

[Banquo]

Bristol sign Oscar Lennon as short term injury cover (Wolstenholme has done his knee). Nice to have him back, always liked like he could have challenged Uren/Randell.

Sam Edwards is a good un

[jimKRFC]

Bristol sign Oscar Lennon as short term injury cover (Wolstenholme has done his knee). Nice to have him back, always liked like he could have challenged Uren/Randell.

Sam Edwards is a good un

With Randell away and now Wolstenholme injured we only Sam left..

[Danno]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gz2v5nz5qo

Ted Hill binned, Ewels and AOF called up.

I fail to see the logic in any of this.

[FKAS]

Bristol sign Oscar Lennon as short term injury cover (Wolstenholme has done his knee). Nice to have him back, always liked like he could have challenged Uren/Randell.

Sam Edwards is a good un

With Randell away and now Wolstenholme injured we only Sam left..

Marmion?

[jimKRFC]

Sam Edwards is a good un

With Randell away and now Wolstenholme injured we only Sam left..

Marmion?

Oops...

[Banquo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gz2v5nz5qo

Ted Hill binned, Ewels and AOF called up.

I fail to see the logic in any of this.

aye

[Mr Mwenda]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gz2v5nz5qo

Ted Hill binned, Ewels and AOF called up.

I fail to see the logic in any of this.

There's surely some excellent stats records on the line now!

[FKAS]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gz2v5nz5qo

Ted Hill binned, Ewels and AOF called up.

I fail to see the logic in any of this.

There's surely some excellent stats records on the line now!

If AOF and Dan Cole come on together will that be the biggest age gap between two props at international level? 17 years, Dan's nearly old enough to be his dad.

[Puja]

The BBC have just done an article about a Lions XV based just on Opta stats over the past month - mostly fluff, but I found Itoje's entry interesting:

One of just three Englishmen to play every minute of England's Autumn Nations Series campaign, Itoje won five turnovers, more than any other player during this month's Tests.

No British or Irish player hit more attacking rucks per 80 minutes than Itoje (27.3), while he was also the only English player to average 10 or more defensive rucks hit per 80 minute (11.8).

I think we really do undervalue on here (and England fans in general, I'd say) the sheer amount of quiet, effective graft that he gets through. Might not do as many ostensibly impressive things as Etzebeth, but he does give a full Richard Hill's worth of unseen work.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

We do? I thought we were the only informed people on the internet?

I know Jngf would rather we select a combo of Simon Shaw and Jonny Hill, but I think he's an outlier.

It's crazy they're using stats from games vs Portugal when other teams only played the very best, but I guess that par for that sort of article.

[Banquo]

The BBC have just done an article about a Lions XV based just on Opta stats over the past month - mostly fluff, but I found Itoje's entry interesting:

One of just three Englishmen to play every minute of England's Autumn Nations Series campaign, Itoje won five turnovers, more than any other player during this month's Tests.

No British or Irish player hit more attacking rucks per 80 minutes than Itoje (27.3), while he was also the only English player to average 10 or more defensive rucks hit per 80 minute (11.8).

I think we really do undervalue on here (and England fans in general, I'd say) the sheer amount of quiet, effective graft that he gets through. Might not do as many ostensibly impressive things as Etzebeth, but he does give a full Richard Hill's worth of unseen work.

Puja

Well I don’t and have been saying this for ages, even during the alleged drop off when he was retasked with hitting more rucks, presumably to allow Earl to swan about and shout at people.
He’s a phenomenal player, brilliant at the lineout in three position too. If you don’t value him, I’d suggest you aren’t seeing what’s going on.

[Mellsblue]

As Banquo alludes to, we had quite a long discussion on here about Itoje being asked to hit a lot more rucks under Stats Bunker in the ‘23 6N and how it may have affected the highlights reel.

[Stom]

As Banquo alludes to, we had quite a long discussion on here about Itoje being asked to hit a lot more rucks under Stats Bunker in the ‘23 6N and how it may have affected the highlights reel.

Yep, I remember that. He is incredible, and the sheer quantity and quality of the work he gets through is incredible.

It's just the balance of the pack that's all over the place...