RugbyRebels

The Times ran a report highlighting the problem with Labour wanting to fill seats with those who support the Glorious Leader™ over progressive left of centre politics - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labo ... -zrls7p058

It's almost funny other than Labour might win

Digby wrote:The Times ran a report highlighting the problem with Labour wanting to fill seats with those who support the Glorious Leader™ over progressive left of centre politics - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labo ... -zrls7p058

It's almost funny other than Labour might win

They will almost certainly rout the Tories at the local elections.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:The Times ran a report highlighting the problem with Labour wanting to fill seats with those who support the Glorious Leader™ over progressive left of centre politics - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labo ... -zrls7p058

It's almost funny other than Labour might win

They will almost certainly rout the Tories at the local elections.

With candidates like this who wouldn't want to back them? David Icke might have a better grip on reality.

I've no idea what I'd even like to happen in local elections, I don't even know if it's possible to do a good job such have been the extra legal duties imposed by central government and he such have been the cuts to funding by central government.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:The Times ran a report highlighting the problem with Labour wanting to fill seats with those who support the Glorious Leader™ over progressive left of centre politics - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labo ... -zrls7p058

It's almost funny other than Labour might win

They will almost certainly rout the Tories at the local elections.

With candidates like this who wouldn't want to back them? David Icke might have a better grip on reality.

I've no idea what I'd even like to happen in local elections, I don't even know if it's possible to do a good job such have been the extra legal duties imposed by central government and he such have been the cuts to funding by central government.

She was also casting doubt over Jo Cox's death and the Westminster attack.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: They will almost certainly rout the Tories at the local elections.

With candidates like this who wouldn't want to back them? David Icke might have a better grip on reality.

I've no idea what I'd even like to happen in local elections, I don't even know if it's possible to do a good job such have been the extra legal duties imposed by central government and he such have been the cuts to funding by central government.

She was also casting doubt over Jo Cox's death and the Westminster attack.

Does one laugh or despair that she can reach such a high level of politics?

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
With candidates like this who wouldn't want to back them? David Icke might have a better grip on reality.

I've no idea what I'd even like to happen in local elections, I don't even know if it's possible to do a good job such have been the extra legal duties imposed by central government and he such have been the cuts to funding by central government.

She was also casting doubt over Jo Cox's death and the Westminster attack.

Does one laugh or despair that she can reach such a high level of politics?

There is no political party one can sensibly vote for at this point.

The Parliamentary Labour party just seems like a bunch of Uncle Tom's.
Is that racist..?.... corporate stooges might be a less inflammatory description.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: She was also casting doubt over Jo Cox's death and the Westminster attack.

Does one laugh or despair that she can reach such a high level of politics?

There is no political party one can sensibly vote for at this point.

I never have to worry too much about this as the Tories will win the seat easily, thus I'm left with a choice of voting either Greens or Lib Dem to add to national voting totals to add some little thing (and probably nothing) to the overall picture.

My local MP claims to be a remainer but also seems as much a remainer as May, and it was Gove he backed for the leadership role once Boris wasn't an option. He's also famously screamed at police officers there to protect him, he is though taller than one might think from just seeing him on TV

I do feel that Corbyn did a very good job of getting the youth Labour voters involved in politics again. But I also feel like his time has somewhat passed now, and Labour need to turn to a new leader. The only problem with that is...who?

I really feel Labour could do with a good old fashioned working class northerner in charge. Someone to "say it like it is", so to speak. Because Corbyn is neither an intellectual nor a man of the people. He's just a man...

Stom wrote:I do feel that Corbyn did a very good job of getting the youth Labour voters involved in politics again. But I also feel like his time has somewhat passed now, and Labour need to turn to a new leader. The only problem with that is...who?

I really feel Labour could do with a good old fashioned working class northerner in charge. Someone to "say it like it is", so to speak. Because Corbyn is neither an intellectual nor a man of the people. He's just a man...

Although Labour did benefit from a youth surge last time, it would appear that the under 24awere still under represented.

Corbyn brings too much baggage. A more moderate leader would attract more floating voters. Despite everything, the Torys are still ahead in the polls, which is insane.

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:I do feel that Corbyn did a very good job of getting the youth Labour voters involved in politics again. But I also feel like his time has somewhat passed now, and Labour need to turn to a new leader. The only problem with that is...who?

I really feel Labour could do with a good old fashioned working class northerner in charge. Someone to "say it like it is", so to speak. Because Corbyn is neither an intellectual nor a man of the people. He's just a man...

Although Labour did benefit from a youth surge last time, it would appear that the under 24awere still under represented.

Corbyn brings too much baggage. A more moderate leader would attract more floating voters. Despite everything, the Torys are still ahead in the polls, which is insane.

It's not the "moderation" that's the problem, it's his appearance. Labour needs to be left of centre, not right... Tony Blair was not a moderate, you have to remember that. A lot of what Corbyn and his team put out is far from extreme. But one or two policies, which are badly thought out and/or poorly released, are jumped upon and pushed as evidence that he's a pseudo communist.

Blair might not be a moderate if only looking to the Labour party, but withing British politics as a whole Blair was very much a moderate or centrist. I always rather liked Blair other than his actual policies which always seemed rather poorly thought out through to just being shit. There is I think we'd have to allow Blair came in following more than a decade of chronic lack of investment under the Tories in a variety of public services, and now after another decade of Tory government someone is going to have to bite the bullet on a chronic lack of investment, and that's both expensive and in political terms takes a long time to pay off so it's not obvious in advance you'd get any credit.

Digby wrote:Blair might not be a moderate if only looking to the Labour party, but withing British politics as a whole Blair was very much a moderate or centrist. I always rather liked Blair other than his actual policies which always seemed rather poorly thought out through to just being shit. There is I think we'd have to allow Blair came in following more than a decade of chronic lack of investment under the Tories in a variety of public services, and now after another decade of Tory government someone is going to have to bite the bullet on a chronic lack of investment, and that's both expensive and in political terms takes a long time to pay off so it's not obvious in advance you'd get any credit.

cripes.

While I don't think Blair was the right winger many make him out as, his middle and late stint as PM was definitely to the right of centre...

I just don't think there's any true socialist government out there, and the British Labour party currently stands as one of the only actual socialist parties, and that's mainly due to Corbyn and his team.

And I do think it's essential that we have some form of democratic socialism out there, it's just that Corbyn maybe doesn't have that democratic part...

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Blair might not be a moderate if only looking to the Labour party, but withing British politics as a whole Blair was very much a moderate or centrist. I always rather liked Blair other than his actual policies which always seemed rather poorly thought out through to just being shit. There is I think we'd have to allow Blair came in following more than a decade of chronic lack of investment under the Tories in a variety of public services, and now after another decade of Tory government someone is going to have to bite the bullet on a chronic lack of investment, and that's both expensive and in political terms takes a long time to pay off so it's not obvious in advance you'd get any credit.

cripes.

Yep, I think he was a decent chap trying to do some good, he just went about it in ways I didn't like.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Blair might not be a moderate if only looking to the Labour party, but withing British politics as a whole Blair was very much a moderate or centrist. I always rather liked Blair other than his actual policies which always seemed rather poorly thought out through to just being shit. There is I think we'd have to allow Blair came in following more than a decade of chronic lack of investment under the Tories in a variety of public services, and now after another decade of Tory government someone is going to have to bite the bullet on a chronic lack of investment, and that's both expensive and in political terms takes a long time to pay off so it's not obvious in advance you'd get any credit.

cripes.

Yep, I think he was a decent chap trying to do some good, he just went about it in ways I didn't like.

I thought him a smarmy careerist. Each to their own.

Stom wrote:While I don't think Blair was the right winger many make him out as, his middle and late stint as PM was definitely to the right of centre...

I just don't think there's any true socialist government out there, and the British Labour party currently stands as one of the only actual socialist parties, and that's mainly due to Corbyn and his team.

And I do think it's essential that we have some form of democratic socialism out there, it's just that Corbyn maybe doesn't have that democratic part...

Depends what you mean by socialism. I think it's a fair point that Blair could easily have sat as a Lib Dem or left leaning Tory and having a choice to the left of Blair isn't the worst thing

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: cripes.

Yep, I think he was a decent chap trying to do some good, he just went about it in ways I didn't like.

I thought him a smarmy careerist. Each to their own.

as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Yep, I think he was a decent chap trying to do some good, he just went about it in ways I didn't like.

I thought him a smarmy careerist. Each to their own.

as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: I thought him a smarmy careerist. Each to their own.

as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

Aye. He came into power when I went to secondary school and I loved him then. But considering in my early teens I also loved BoJo, it kinda says something...

By the time I left school, I really did not like Blair and agree with all those words to describe him. There's only one politician I dislike more, and that's Liam Fox, a rather disgusting creature I had the great dishonour to meet and talk to.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: I thought him a smarmy careerist. Each to their own.

as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

His methods made me want to bang my head against the wall, I mean PFI, that was obviously one of the worst ideas going back when they first mentioned it, and yet, perhaps with his evangelical belief in something being right because it was him doing it he was persuaded good would come of it. Whether he's worse now I don't know, he's certainly rather toxic, but none of the big names in the Labour party who'd be worth listening to are putting their heads above the parapet which is leaving a vacuum. It's a shame someone like David Milliband isn't willing to stand up as it's too easy for many people to dismiss Blair because it's Blair, I'm sure he must realise that even if he doesn't like it, Blair's not the brightest but he's not that thick.

It's going to keep happening though that until a big name follows up a path Blair is creating, and he's done it a few times, until then Blair will keep stepping into the void as someone like Kinnock just isn't a big enough political figure. At this point it's even hard to see how a Milliband, or Cooper, or Umuna goes about restraining Momentum and the momentum behind the perception that Corbyn is the person to deliver for the greater good (and clearly none of them have read their Harry Potter and understood Corbyn is something of a Voldemort). It's good that other names on the political spectrum like a John Major are speaking out, but it needs a centre left big name too, so far they've lacked the courage.

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

Aye. He came into power when I went to secondary school and I loved him then. But considering in my early teens I also loved BoJo, it kinda says something...

By the time I left school, I really did not like Blair and agree with all those words to describe him. There's only one politician I dislike more, and that's Liam Fox, a rather disgusting creature I had the great dishonour to meet and talk to.

I found it odd at the time that so many were so happy with Blair as opposed to the Tories simply being out. For me people were too pro Blair back then, and often too anti now.

I did want the Tories to lose in '97, but then I think it's a good thing if any 3 term government loses as it gives them a chance to step back from not being able to see the wood for the trees, to think about what it is they want to achieve, and recharge and bring in some new names so when they come back into office they're not the same rather stagnated bunch.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
as Jim Telfer observed you've got to want it. nonetheless I thought he was good, and I thought he'd helped the Labour Party grow up a bit, turns out it only worsened the backlash from the window lickers in the party. when I say I liked him it was never enough to want to vote for him, and he loused plenty up and left plenty he never even got into, but his wider ambitions for what a society should look like didn't alarm me, similar to Cameron, whereas Corbyn and the Tory right I'd have big concerns about

Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

His methods made me want to bang my head against the wall, I mean PFI, that was obviously one of the worst ideas going back when they first mentioned it, and yet, perhaps with his evangelical belief in something being right because it was him doing it he was persuaded good would come of it. Whether he's worse now I don't know, he's certainly rather toxic, but none of the big names in the Labour party who'd be worth listening to are putting their heads above the parapet which is leaving a vacuum. It's a shame someone like David Milliband isn't willing to stand up as it's too easy for many people to dismiss Blair because it's Blair, I'm sure he must realise that even if he doesn't like it, Blair's not the brightest but he's not that thick.

It's going to keep happening though that until a big name follows up a path Blair is creating, and he's done it a few times, until then Blair will keep stepping into the void as someone like Kinnock just isn't a big enough political figure. At this point it's even hard to see how a Milliband, or Cooper, or Umuna goes about restraining Momentum and the momentum behind the perception that Corbyn is the person to deliver for the greater good (and clearly none of them have read their Harry Potter and understood Corbyn is something of a Voldemort). It's good that other names on the political spectrum like a John Major are speaking out, but it needs a centre left big name too, so far they've lacked the courage.

yep PFI and overstuffing the public sector were just two of the long term issues he created; PFI is a spectacular hampering of the NHS. I know two almost brand new hospitals that are hardly used, and the amount of money charged for simple building works in PFI funded and well used hospitals is eye watering.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Some of his aims were good as you said, the method of achieving them less so. I found him profoundly unlikeable, smug, smarmy, patronising, almost evangelical at times; he's even worse now not in power.

His methods made me want to bang my head against the wall, I mean PFI, that was obviously one of the worst ideas going back when they first mentioned it, and yet, perhaps with his evangelical belief in something being right because it was him doing it he was persuaded good would come of it. Whether he's worse now I don't know, he's certainly rather toxic, but none of the big names in the Labour party who'd be worth listening to are putting their heads above the parapet which is leaving a vacuum. It's a shame someone like David Milliband isn't willing to stand up as it's too easy for many people to dismiss Blair because it's Blair, I'm sure he must realise that even if he doesn't like it, Blair's not the brightest but he's not that thick.

It's going to keep happening though that until a big name follows up a path Blair is creating, and he's done it a few times, until then Blair will keep stepping into the void as someone like Kinnock just isn't a big enough political figure. At this point it's even hard to see how a Milliband, or Cooper, or Umuna goes about restraining Momentum and the momentum behind the perception that Corbyn is the person to deliver for the greater good (and clearly none of them have read their Harry Potter and understood Corbyn is something of a Voldemort). It's good that other names on the political spectrum like a John Major are speaking out, but it needs a centre left big name too, so far they've lacked the courage.

yep PFI and overstuffing the public sector were just two of the long term issues he created; PFI is a spectacular hampering of the NHS. I know two almost brand new hospitals that are hardly used, and the amount of money charged for simple building works in PFI funded and well used hospitals is eye watering.

I've said before I really don't like the idea of printing yet more money, a peoples quantitative easing as per the Corbynistas, but it would be worth crunching some numbers in this area to rid us of the last cunning financial plan a Labour government had. Were it another policy I might mock it was given to Prescott to deliver, but it was such a bad idea even a competent thinker couldn't have made a success of it

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Blair might not be a moderate if only looking to the Labour party, but withing British politics as a whole Blair was very much a moderate or centrist. I always rather liked Blair other than his actual policies which always seemed rather poorly thought out through to just being shit. There is I think we'd have to allow Blair came in following more than a decade of chronic lack of investment under the Tories in a variety of public services, and now after another decade of Tory government someone is going to have to bite the bullet on a chronic lack of investment, and that's both expensive and in political terms takes a long time to pay off so it's not obvious in advance you'd get any credit.

cripes.

We all have our surprise faves,...I've always thought John Major was a thoroughly decent bloke and a fine PM.

In terms of who or what the Labour party needs at the moment..... another John Smith would be good. Preferably a version with a bit more longevity this time.