RugbyRebels

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 1:46 pm**

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 12:57 am I actually know very little about young Asimov and I haven't noticed massive amounts of him when I've seen Glaws games, although that's mostly because I haven't been watching for him. What's he really good at - what's the thing worth looking out for?

Puja

The unnoticed work

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:30 pm**

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 1:46 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 12:57 am I actually know very little about young Asimov and I haven't noticed massive amounts of him when I've seen Glaws games, although that's mostly because I haven't been watching for him. What's he really good at - what's the thing worth looking out for?

Puja
The unnoticed work

Doesn't he run the Glaws lineout when Alemano isn't playing?

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:39 pm**

ilovelamp wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:54 pm Arthur Clarke is coming along very nicely at lock for us at Glaws. His work rate is insane and I think he’ll be capped before too long.

I've mentioned him a few times (not claiming to be an expert new talent spotter/scout!), he stands out. Big unit, seems to be involved a lot, quicker than you'd think, all over the maul/tight, good tackler... looks a good player, I'd have him in already over Isiekwe or Ewels, he's got potential for sure.

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 5:18 pm**

Charlie Morgan once again producing journalism that's too good for the Telegraph, going into depth about the number of EQP who have played in the Prem and what positions: https://archive.ph/3orMl

Two things from that:
- I've always thought the JIFF thing was a bit silly, in that it doesn't discriminate between French/non-French players and doesn't necessarily help the French team (aside from then allowing them to poach on residency), but the point about it being fairer when players change nationality is a very valid one. It's not fair that Glaws are being punished for bringing through Freddie Thomas or Sale for bringing through Reed. Mind, an argument could be made that introducing a JIFF in England would severely weaken the measures, as players like Reffell, Rees-Zammit, and Moriarty would count as "qualified" on the basis that English schools scooped them up, despite them never having any real intention of representing England - the school system and scholarships to youngsters in neighbouring nations aren't really the same issue in France.
- Charlie Morgan appears to agree with what Timbo said about BJVR being ineligible to become EQP because of his SA U20s cap.

Puja

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 6:17 pm**

I really wish Morgan would get away from that rag. Not that there are many options but least worst would be good.

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:47 pm**

Morgan is very much at the right paper. Quality meets quality

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:49 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm**

Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.

Posted: **Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:43 pm**

Only one of them starts for England and he's had serious questions about his ability in the international game until the last 4 matches. Just to temper that a little bit.

Our front row should be pretty fearsome in 3-5 years though.

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am**

Cameo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.

It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:06 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.
It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja

Am I understanding wrong? Previously English players deciding to play for Scotland like Bayliss would count as EQP but now they don’t?

Doesn’t that make it more likely that a player may have doubts about suddenly deciding their Scottish?

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:35 am**

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:06 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.
It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja
Am I understanding wrong? Previously English players deciding to play for Scotland like Bayliss would count as EQP but now they don’t?

Doesn’t that make it more likely that a player may have doubts about suddenly deciding their Scottish?

You are understanding wrong - my poor phrasing there! When I said, "a couple of years ago," I meant that was when they accepted Scottish caps. It has always been that taking the Celtic coin would lose your club any benefits of you being EQP. The only change has been (and I don't know exactly when it came in) that it used to be an increased grant for each additional EQP that you played in an average matchday squad, whereas now it's a fine if you're under an average of 15 EQP per matchday XXIII. A minimum bar set, with a stick, rather than a bit of carrot for any attempt.

It doesn't seem to be stopping players from switching and there's been plenty of DoRs who have championed their players and (publically, at least) cheered them on when they're capped. Obviously we don't know what happens behind closed doors in contract negotiations, but this would've been well known before the likes of Bayliss/White/Warr/Reed/Millar-Mills/Hurd/Henderson all relinquished their EQP status and it doesn't seem to've been a concern to them.

I think the situation would probably change if the league got richer again though. Right now, 15 EQP is an easy target to hit, as clubs are having to use a lot of academy and the vast majority of them are EQP (at least until Gatland discovers their Welsh ancestry and makes a 16 year old his new starting fly-half), plus a lot of overseas signings right now are uncapped and so any English ancestry makes them technically qualified. However, if money came back into the Prem and clubs started competing for higher quality overseas talent again, then it would become very much more marginal - would you really support Freddie Thomas going and exploring his Welsh dreams if it meant no longer being able to pick both him and one of your big-name signings?

Puja

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:48 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 10:35 am
Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 9:06 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am

It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja
Am I understanding wrong? Previously English players deciding to play for Scotland like Bayliss would count as EQP but now they don’t?

Doesn’t that make it more likely that a player may have doubts about suddenly deciding their Scottish?
You are understanding wrong - my poor phrasing there! When I said, "a couple of years ago," I meant that was when they accepted Scottish caps. It has always been that taking the Celtic coin would lose your club any benefits of you being EQP. The only change has been (and I don't know exactly when it came in) that it used to be an increased grant for each additional EQP that you played in an average matchday squad, whereas now it's a fine if you're under an average of 15 EQP per matchday XXIII. A minimum bar set, with a stick, rather than a bit of carrot for any attempt.

It doesn't seem to be stopping players from switching and there's been plenty of DoRs who have championed their players and (publically, at least) cheered them on when they're capped. Obviously we don't know what happens behind closed doors in contract negotiations, but this would've been well known before the likes of Bayliss/White/Warr/Reed/Millar-Mills/Hurd/Henderson all relinquished their EQP status and it doesn't seem to've been a concern to them.

I think the situation would probably change if the league got richer again though. Right now, 15 EQP is an easy target to hit, as clubs are having to use a lot of academy and the vast majority of them are EQP (at least until Gatland discovers their Welsh ancestry and makes a 16 year old his new starting fly-half), plus a lot of overseas signings right now are uncapped and so any English ancestry makes them technically qualified. However, if money came back into the Prem and clubs started competing for higher quality overseas talent again, then it would become very much more marginal - would you really support Freddie Thomas going and exploring his Welsh dreams if it meant no longer being able to pick both him and one of your big-name signings?

Puja

I think a lot of HCs and DORs are happy for their players to go and play international rugby even if it means losing their EQ status. There's the chance for that experience to help them kick on and become better players. Ben White is a prime example, middling Prem scrum half and is now in contention for a Lions Tour and deservedly so. As you say only becomes an issue if you start signing big name foreign players.

Posted: **Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:31 pm**

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.
It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja

Yeah, it does. More chances for pro rugby increases the player pool. It just puts things in perspective when you lot are moaning that you have to pick Dan Cole as there are no alternatives. There are loads of alternatives, you just think (rightly or wrongly) they are not as good or not ready. We have to pick them whether or not we think they are any good.

Not having a go in any way, just think the crisis in English rugby is overstated.

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:19 am**

Hey Cameo, will trade you half-a-dozen of our 4/10 mediocre tightheads if you give us Zander Fagerson

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 am
Cameo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:04 pm Scary article from a Scotland fan. You can always do better, but compared to most countries you have a lot of players playing regular top level rugby. A couple of examples stood out, especially hooker and tighthead:

'Last weekend, all 10 Premiership clubs started an EQP at tighthead'

I'd be surprised if there are ten active Scottish qualified tightheads who have ever started a professional game.
It benefits your lot too though - two of your Scottish qualified tighthead were giving their clubs the EQP money up until a couple of years ago.

Puja

Hurd and Millar-Mills?

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 5:18 pm Charlie Morgan once again producing journalism that's too good for the Telegraph, going into depth about the number of EQP who have played in the Prem and what positions: https://archive.ph/3orMl

Two things from that:
- I've always thought the JIFF thing was a bit silly, in that it doesn't discriminate between French/non-French players and doesn't necessarily help the French team (aside from then allowing them to poach on residency), but the point about it being fairer when players change nationality is a very valid one. It's not fair that Glaws are being punished for bringing through Freddie Thomas or Sale for bringing through Reed. Mind, an argument could be made that introducing a JIFF in England would severely weaken the measures, as players like Reffell, Rees-Zammit, and Moriarty would count as "qualified" on the basis that English schools scooped them up, despite them never having any real intention of representing England - the school system and scholarships to youngsters in neighbouring nations aren't really the same issue in France.
- Charlie Morgan appears to agree with what Timbo said about BJVR being ineligible to become EQP because of his SA U20s cap.

Puja

That article settles a question I posed back in February: viewtopic.php?p=317896#p317896

So as an example someone like Will Addison remains Non-EQP until RFU apply to World Rugby (after a 3 year period from their last Cap) to change his eligibility back.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:27 amYou are understanding wrong - my poor phrasing there! When I said, "a couple of years ago," I meant that was when they accepted Scottish caps. It has always been that taking the Celtic coin would lose your club any benefits of you being EQP. The only change has been (and I don't know exactly when it came in) that it used to be an increased grant for each additional EQP that you played in an average matchday squad, whereas now it's a fine if you're under an average of 15 EQP per matchday XXIII. A minimum bar set, with a stick, rather than a bit of carrot for any attempt.

It doesn't seem to be stopping players from switching and there's been plenty of DoRs who have championed their players and (publically, at least) cheered them on when they're capped. Obviously we don't know what happens behind closed doors in contract negotiations, but this would've been well known before the likes of Bayliss/White/Warr/Reed/Millar-Mills/Hurd/Henderson all relinquished their EQP status and it doesn't seem to've been a concern to them.

I think the situation would probably change if the league got richer again though. Right now, 15 EQP is an easy target to hit, as clubs are having to use a lot of academy and the vast majority of them are EQP (at least until Gatland discovers their Welsh ancestry and makes a 16 year old his new starting fly-half), plus a lot of overseas signings right now are uncapped and so any English ancestry makes them technically qualified. However, if money came back into the Prem and clubs started competing for higher quality overseas talent again, then it would become very much more marginal - would you really support Freddie Thomas going and exploring his Welsh dreams if it meant no longer being able to pick both him and one of your big-name signings?

Puja

If money came back into the Premiership, would they care (assuming they even do currently) anymore about EQP incentives/fines

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2024 8:57 pm**

Interview with BJVR in the Times.

“He says the Boks have had no contact, yet spool back to 2016 and there is a potential issue. Janse van Rensburg was playing in the Varsity Cup for his university when he was called up, dropped, called up, dropped and then called up again by South Africa’s under-20 side.

Eventually he played 22 minutes off the bench against Argentina — in a 19-13 pool-stage defeat — in Sale in the Junior World Cup. World Rugby rules state that a player is captured for a country if they play for the main Test side, or the “next senior national representative team”, against another country’s first or nominated second team.

South Africa under-20 were the “next national representative team”, but it is unclear whether that was the case for Argentina under-20. In 2018 it was decreed that unions could not give their under-20 sides such a status and that “if a player has played for a union’s under-20 team prior to January 1, 2018, guidance should be sought from World Rugby”.

So Janse van Rensburg may need to call up the governing body soon. If given the opportunity, he would definitely like to play for England. “If I get the chance, why would I say no?” he says. “By the time I qualify I’ll be 29 years old. Why would I say no if South Africa don’t need me because they have two of the best centres in the world, and enough back-up, and then never play international rugby?“

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2024 10:32 pm**

Again, he's still SA qualified, so why try to catch Borthwick's eye instead of Rassie's.

He answers that himself

"South Africa don’t need me because they have two of the best centres in the world, and enough back-up"

Maybe try to find any sort of tenuous link with Wales or Scotland

Posted: **Fri Dec 06, 2024 10:39 pm**

“Why the fuck not?”

Very compelling argument.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:51 am**

Surely the most important fact to be taken from the article is that he played 10 at school.

Posted: **Tue Dec 10, 2024 6:01 pm**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 47vynl1pvo

England flanker Tom Curry will miss Sale's Champions Cup clash with Racing 92 on Friday for a stem-cell procedure on his chronic hip condition.

Curry missed the bulk of last season as he underwent career-saving surgery, but recovered to make the summer tour of New Zealand and the November internationals.

Sale boss Alex Sanderson says the latest procedure is part of managing the 26-year-old with a long-term view to making the 2027 Rugby World Cup.

Hopes of making it to 2027 RWC, when he’ll be 29. Don’t particularly like the sound of that.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:58 am**

Mixed news on Kpoku. Signed a new deal with Racing until 2027 but says he definitely wants to play for England and not France.

https://archive.ph/kmuXe

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:01 am**

Would he realistically challenge the squad/23 yet? I guess I can understand his hesitation seeing what happened to Mercer, not that I'm comparing them as players particularly.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:07 am**

Damn. Just looked him up.

Junior KPOKU is a 19-year-old English rugby player standing at 2.04 m tall (6 ft 8 in) and weighing in at 119 kg (18 st 10.35 lb; 262.35 lb) , who currently plays for Racing 92 in France as lock.

Occupied positions by Junior on start team :

Lock : 14 times ( Lock #5 47%, Lock #4 35% )
Back Row : 3 times ( Blindside Flanker 18% )

Only 19, enormous and he's already starting big games for Racing. A couple more years out of the limelight before coming back to the prem (at an age many locks would only just start breaking through) sounds fine to me. It would be nice to add to the crucial Itoje/Martin/Chessum trio, particularly as the latter two are very injury prone, but surely there's no rush.

I guess you can argue playing so many T14 minutes in the tight five at such a young age might not be great for him long term either.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:12 am**

Ah the good old Daily Mail with a good interview with Kpoku and then using a picture of a totally different black player

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:17 am**

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:58 am Mixed news on Kpoku. Signed a new deal with Racing until 2027 but says he definitely wants to play for England and not France.

https://archive.ph/kmuXe

Tbh, that's a pretty good result. My major worry was less about him not being available now (although I think he would be in the EPS - he's a better option than Ewels/Isiekwe for the 4th slot and, while possibly behind Coles at present, has a much higher ceiling) and more about his possible defection, which he seems to be stating against in relatively strident terms. Hopefully he's a man of his word (and, tbh, after that strong of a statement, I'm not sure I'd want him if he was the kind of man to walk that back).

I wouldn't hate Borthwick chucking him an A cap next year though just to be certain though!

He'll do well in the Top 14, learn his trade in a high quality league, and then be coming back aged 21 to improve the Prem and hopefully England - with luck Racing will suck in 2026-27 as well and he'll be able to leave on time to join all the pre-RWC camps and compete for a position.

Puja

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