RugbyRebels

A bit harsh on Tua. I think he could be a very good signing.

Genuinely never heard of the prop though. At least they also signed Goodrick-Clarke.

From what I can see the prop has barely played for the Stormers in Super Rugby or URC. Sio and WGC are likely to be the two in the 23 and then Blose will be fighting it out with Keast to be the third choice.

As Puja says the centre is injured, neck injury requiring an op and rehab, so unlikely to be playing much anytime soon. Should help Wimbush get game time but does leave them a bit short on centres with only the three recognised options. Don't know if anyone they've got in the academy/BUCS set up is any good.

In the article I read, Rob Baxter name-checked Lilley from the academy and apparently Hammersley and Wyatt can both play centre.

Will Rigg joined them from Coventry half way through last season and might see some more first team action. He did well in BUCS and the Championship so could potentially step up?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:33 am In the article I read, Rob Baxter name-checked Lilley from the academy and apparently Hammersley and Wyatt can both play centre.

Will Rigg joined them from Coventry half way through last season and might see some more first team action. He did well in BUCS and the Championship so could potentially step up?

IFW can also play centre if needs be.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:33 am In the article I read, Rob Baxter name-checked Lilley from the academy and apparently Hammersley and Wyatt can both play centre.

Will Rigg joined them from Coventry half way through last season and might see some more first team action. He did well in BUCS and the Championship so could potentially step up?

I'd forgotten about Will Rigg, was a good player for Coventry. Didn't play much for Chiefs last season due to injury iirc. Could be his time to shine.

If he learns to be really good at everything maybe he could even be an England contender.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:02 pm If he learns to be really good at everything maybe he could even be an England contender.

Puff piece in the Times/Guardian/Telegraph coming up...


This one the other week was a belter: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ug-of-war/

"Bryn Bradley could be part of an Anglo-Welsh tug of war over international recognition... except for the fact that he's declared solidly for Wales and isn't even in the Harlequins side yet and even the handpicked quotes from the coaches are mentioning things which he needs to improve on."

Puja

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:33 am In the article I read, Rob Baxter name-checked Lilley from the academy and apparently Hammersley and Wyatt can both play centre.

Will Rigg joined them from Coventry half way through last season and might see some more first team action. He did well in BUCS and the Championship so could potentially step up?

Lilley is an outstanding talent. Predominantly a 13. Pushed Gus Hall outwards for England consistently. He’s proper quality!

How might Tigers replace the best 8 in the league? This article starts off quite well but sadly feels like the author ran out of time or word count before he could finish the article.

https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/could-le ... -approach/

I thought the same.

Considering Beets is essentially Wiese’s replacement, I was expecting a section about him. Some background on why they had decided to sign him over other options based upon stats/value for money would have made a lot of sense.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:47 am I thought the same.

Considering Beets is essentially Wiese’s replacement, I was expecting a section about him. Some background on why they had decided to sign him over other options based upon stats/value for money would have made a lot of sense.

I think Beets is a punt. He was a star at age grade, he's a big, mobile and physical unit. Unpolished diamond though and at the Bulls he wasn't getting game time as they have a raft of backrow stars. Over time he could be a fantastic signing for us but this season I'm not sure, he's not going to arrive until October either.

I was disappointed at the lack of stats. My question would be can we use Martin, Chessum and Henderson to carry more from the second row. We've rarely had all three fit at the same time but if we finally do then giving them more carrying responsibility is not only doable but having an option off the bench that can add more of the same is invaluable. Using Hatherall or Cracknell at 8 in the short term drops the carrying strength their significantly but work rate wise and in defence we'd still be alright. Can new signings Nicky Smith at loosehead and the locks pick up the additional carrying load of Hatherall and Cracknell can be relied upon just to split the minutes 50/30 between themselves and run themselves into the ground?

We've got some good direct running centres in Kata, Kelly and Perese that can also lighten the load. The option to deploy Kata on the wing would be risky defensively but could provide more of a free role in attack with him running off of the shoulders of 9/10/12 (whether we could do something very clever with Wand attacking at 13 but defending on the wing so that Kata can be the maximum menace I'm not sure). Better use of Bassett and OHC, two well built centres would also help. Hewatt in as attack coach is facing a lot of expectation.

Agreed, but that’s kind of why I thought there might be some piece on Beets. A bit of gamble but good raw material and probably some stats that could have made him a great example of a ‘money ball’ type signing.

I did like that the article was focusing on the idea that it’s more about replacing the job a player does than it always being a like for like replacement. From a Quins POV, we haven’t directly replaced Esterhuizen but rather than expecting one of our other centres to fulfil his role, it may be that we look to utilise our other carriers in different ways.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:55 pm Agreed, but that’s kind of why I thought there might be some piece on Beets. A bit of gamble but good raw material and probably some stats that could have made him a great example of a ‘money ball’ type signing.

I did like that the article was focusing on the idea that it’s more about replacing the job a player does than it always being a like for like replacement. From a Quins POV, we haven’t directly replaced Esterhuizen but rather than expecting one of our other centres to fulfil his role, it may be that we look to utilise our other carriers in different ways.

In the book/film they use on base percentage with the Oakland As losing three big name players. They then set about trying to find three players that can average the same on base percentage but cover the roles of those missing players. Looking at the old, the unfashionable etc that lead to players being undervalued.

If the key component for Tigers was post contact metres then you'd look at how to spread those among the players we needed to sign this summer. LH, 8 and 13. Can we acquire more tackle busting ability then we are losing as a whole. Seeing as Francois van Wyk, Weise and Scott are the ones being replaced by Nicky Smith, Beets and Perese there's a fair chance. Albeit that Weise will be replaced by one of Hatherall or Cracknell in the short term.

In of himself Beets isn't a Moneyball signing. He's a very standard and logical signing for a sports team to make. Very promising young player who's route to the first team is blocked by talent. Ergo make him an offer that gets him into first team rugby quicker. I don't think there's anything undervalued about him, it's bad luck for him the Bulls are stacked in the backrow (Louw and Hannekom providing serious talent at 6/8).

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:55 pm Agreed, but that’s kind of why I thought there might be some piece on Beets. A bit of gamble but good raw material and probably some stats that could have made him a great example of a ‘money ball’ type signing.

I mean, tbh, Wiese was a very Moneyball signing in the first place - a very, very rough diamond who had the raw materials to do something special.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 9:12 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:55 pm Agreed, but that’s kind of why I thought there might be some piece on Beets. A bit of gamble but good raw material and probably some stats that could have made him a great example of a ‘money ball’ type signing.

I mean, tbh, Wiese was a very Moneyball signing in the first place - a very, very rough diamond who had the raw materials to do something special.

Puja

Spot on. His indiscipline coupled with him playing for an unfashionable school really did mean he was overlooked and heavily undervalued in South Africa. Not being the biggest unit going didn't help either. His stats were very good in a less successful team though, Borthwick and the scouts pulled one out the bag there.

Quins sign Rodrigo Isgro: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequi ... igo-isgro/

Could be an interesting acquisition. With Murley out we were lacking depth on the wing so this is welcome news.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:27 am Quins sign Rodrigo Isgro: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequi ... igo-isgro/

Could be an interesting acquisition. With Murley out we were lacking depth on the wing so this is welcome news.

Seems a decent punt. Sevens to full size rugby is a well trodden path for Puma wingers iirc. I was hoping that Cleaves and/or Zheng would be deemed ready for regular game time and generate a few more EQ options but maybe it's too soon.

I thought Bath had a monopoly on 7s players?
Or is that just English ones?

Telegraph doing their analysis/guesswork on salary cap usage for Prem clubs again - part 1/2 here: https://archive.ph/h0mhU

Some really interesting titbits in there, including info on which players are out of contract at the end of this season. Also McGinty is apparently now Bristol's biggest earner on circa £475,000, which feels like terrible value for money.

Puja

Part 2 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ns-saints/

Sarries makes some interesting reading. They've done some serious wheeling and dealing.


Mod edit - Non-paywalled link here: https://archive.ph/loTdL

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:04 pm Telegraph doing their analysis/guesswork on salary cap usage for Prem clubs again - part 1/2 here: https://archive.ph/h0mhU

Some really interesting titbits in there, including info on which players are out of contract at the end of this season. Also McGinty is apparently now Bristol's biggest earner on circa £475,000, which feels like terrible value for money.

Puja

What are other top FHs earning in comparison (Smith, Smith, Ford, Russell, Pollard)?

Spiffy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:15 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:04 pm Telegraph doing their analysis/guesswork on salary cap usage for Prem clubs again - part 1/2 here: https://archive.ph/h0mhU

Some really interesting titbits in there, including info on which players are out of contract at the end of this season. Also McGinty is apparently now Bristol's biggest earner on circa £475,000, which feels like terrible value for money.

Puja

What are other top FHs earning in comparison (Smith, Smith, Ford, Russell, Pollard)?

£500k-£600k appears to be the benchmark for a top fly-half (according to the Telegraph's guesstimates), but I'd question the definition of 2024!McGinty as a "top FH". Five years ago, then sure, but he's not the same player at 34 years old, and that's without taking into account his injury history.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:54 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:15 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:04 pm Telegraph doing their analysis/guesswork on salary cap usage for Prem clubs again - part 1/2 here: https://archive.ph/h0mhU

Some really interesting titbits in there, including info on which players are out of contract at the end of this season. Also McGinty is apparently now Bristol's biggest earner on circa £475,000, which feels like terrible value for money.

Puja

What are other top FHs earning in comparison (Smith, Smith, Ford, Russell, Pollard)?

£500k-£600k appears to be the benchmark for a top fly-half (according to the Telegraph's guesstimates), but I'd question the definition of 2024!McGinty as a "top FH". Five years ago, then sure, but he's not the same player at 34 years old, and that's without taking into account his injury history.

Puja

McGinty's agent pulled a blinder getting a three year deal out of Bristol. I think the general hope was that getting McGinty and Lam back together would bring Connacht style success to Bristol.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:33 pm McGinty's agent pulled a blinder getting a three year deal out of Bristol. I think the general hope was that getting McGinty and Lam back together would bring Connacht style success to Bristol.

Not sure any supporters thought McGinty would make us title winners! We did need better competition for Sheedy and he's more than done that. But 475k for seems excessive!

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 2:45 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:33 pm McGinty's agent pulled a blinder getting a three year deal out of Bristol. I think the general hope was that getting McGinty and Lam back together would bring Connacht style success to Bristol.

Not sure any supporters thought McGinty would make us title winners! We did need better competition for Sheedy and he's more than done that. But 475k for seems excessive!

I was referring to the board. I suspect the Bristol fans would have opted for different signings several times over the last few years than those the board/Lam selected.