So 40 players, who's in?

[morepork]

I'm curious what people may view Hamish Watson's shortcomings as because he was fantastic in basically every game. On the floor, linking, carrying, hassling halfbacks, disrupting everything and scrapping for every bit of possession.

Warburton certainly returned to some form* after being a bit poor for quite a long time, but without the captaincy and with Tipuric doing a fantastic job of all the 7 duties. Yet is now starting Lions 7, captain and king of the universe? Don't get me wrong he's a great player and probably the best shout for captain but people seem to have gone a bit overboard on his performances.

*Except when Scotland tore Wales' breakdown to bits.

The flipside to this is Warburic doing a number on England's breakdown. Gatland just seems hugely selective about which of these performances count and which don't.

I'm wondering if the paucity of actual 7s in NH comps is down to a pathological aversion to any digression from "tackling" as the primary role. Gatland would be one of the least flexible coaches in the world.

[Hooky]

For me:

Hogg, North, Joseph, Farrell, Daley, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, George, Furlong, Itoje, Kruis, Stander, Warbuton, Vunipola

Mako, Owens, Cole, AWJ, Faletau, Webb, Biggar, Williams

[Numbers]

For me:

Hogg, North, Joseph, Farrell, Daley, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, George, Furlong, Itoje, Kruis, Stander, Warbuton, Vunipola

Mako, Owens, Cole, AWJ, Faletau, Webb, Biggar, Williams

Why haven't you got Ryan Jones at 7?

[Sandydragon]

I'm curious what people may view Hamish Watson's shortcomings as because he was fantastic in basically every game. On the floor, linking, carrying, hassling halfbacks, disrupting everything and scrapping for every bit of possession.

Warburton certainly returned to some form* after being a bit poor for quite a long time, but without the captaincy and with Tipuric doing a fantastic job of all the 7 duties. Yet is now starting Lions 7, captain and king of the universe? Don't get me wrong he's a great player and probably the best shout for captain but people seem to have gone a bit overboard on his performances.

*Except when Scotland tore Wales' breakdown to bits.

The flipside to this is Warburic doing a number on England's breakdown. Gatland just seems hugely selective about which of these performances count and which don't.

This is the conundrum. Warburton had a very good campaign. Tipuric had a better 6N in my opinion and Watson was very good. However, I think Gatland is set on the power game, Gatlandball v1, and so will move the most robust open side to the 7 shirt and will go for a big ball carrier at 8 and an aggressive blind side (a few options there). I don't think playing Warburton at 6 was ever in Gatlands mind for this tour.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I don't see how any of the flanker options could be in the of course option. You could remove any of them and put in Barclay or watson or just remove them without it being a heinous crime. Warburton had a good 6N but wasn't miles ahead of the rest and of course wasn't playing at 7 and as Mike Brown says wales got hammered at the breakdown by Scotland

[Sandydragon]

Yes, Wales got hammered by Scotland, although Tipuric was perhaps the one decent player in a defeated pack. Equally, England destroyed Scotland, and Wales did the job on Ireland. Care to pick the bones out of any of that?

[switchskier]

I like this way of classifying but a few changes for me.

Of course
Mako
McGrath
George
Furlong
Itoje
Tipuric
Stander
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
Farrell
Henshaw
Joseph
Seymour
Hogg
Williams

Fair enough

Cole
Marler
Owens
Best
POM
SOB
Warburton
Faletau
Webb
Te'o
Daly
North

Really?

Sinkler
AWJ
Kruis
Lawes
Henderson
Moriarty
Youngs
Payne
Watson
Nowell

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!!!

Biggar
Davies
Halfpenny

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Yes, Wales got hammered by Scotland, although Tipuric was perhaps the one decent player in a defeated pack. Equally, England destroyed Scotland, and Wales did the job on Ireland. Care to pick the bones out of any of that?

I did. All of the flanker selections are fair enough. None are of course.

[Mellsblue]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Stander - SOB - Vunipola backrow. Big is beautiful.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Stander - SOB - Vunipola backrow. Big is beautiful.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, though he may start Warburton and leave SOB on the bench to start

[Sandydragon]

Yes, Wales got hammered by Scotland, although Tipuric was perhaps the one decent player in a defeated pack. Equally, England destroyed Scotland, and Wales did the job on Ireland. Care to pick the bones out of any of that?

I did. All of the flanker selections are fair enough. None are of course.

I disagree. Tipuric hardly put a foot wrong all tournament.

Tips was one of the best players on the championship, but he won't get near the test team barring injury.

[Stom]

No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

[Sandydragon]

No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Obviously a lot can happen before the 1st test, but that doesn't look too far off, although id have Furlong starting and Youngs vs Webb isn't a done deal.

[Stom]

No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Obviously a lot can happen before the 1st test, but that doesn't look too far off, although id have Furlong starting and Youngs vs Webb isn't a done deal.

I only have them that way round for the partnerships (Mako and Cole, Youngs and Farrell). Otherwise I would make the swaps you suggested. But I feel those partnerships are important considering the lack of time.

[Sandydragon]

No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Obviously a lot can happen before the 1st test, but that doesn't look too far off, although id have Furlong starting and Youngs vs Webb isn't a done deal.

I only have them that way round for the partnerships (Mako and Cole, Youngs and Farrell). Otherwise I would make the swaps you suggested. But I feel those partnerships are important considering the lack of time.

I get that and I agree that with such a short time frame, there are some partnerships that are worth preserving, unless there is a huge case to suggest otherwise.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'd have Mako coming off the bench and so start an all Irish front row. Not that I think Mako is necessarily worse or doesn't deserve to start over McGrath, just that I think he probably offers more from the bench.

Faletau or SOB should probably be on the bench given their flexibility, but if you're starting CJ then you don't really need cover at 8

[Mellsblue]

All Irish front row starting followed by an all English front row (Sinckler not Cole) sounds good to me.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

All Irish front row starting followed by an all English front row (Sinckler not Cole) sounds good to me.

Aye. If Sinckler's scrummaging can hold up to it, and I think it probably could given that the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging much preferring to move the ball, then he's the better bench option.

[Stom]

I'd have Mako coming off the bench and so start an all Irish front row. Not that I think Mako is necessarily worse or doesn't deserve to start over McGrath, just that I think he probably offers more from the bench.

Faletau or SOB should probably be on the bench given their flexibility, but if you're starting CJ then you don't really need cover at 8

Sigh.

Do you think Gatland purposefully made a couple of contentious picks just to make it interesting? As this is all too civil. I can go along with that suggestion, plus the below one about Sinckler.

We need something to fight about!

[J Dory]

OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

[Mellsblue]

OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

I know in NZ bullocks are treated as humans, both in human rights and marital law, but you can't play them at prop.

[J Dory]

OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

I know in NZ bullocks are treated as humans, both in human rights and marital law, but you can't play them at prop.

Oops. Bollocks then. The NZ scrum has had at least parity with the home nations more often than not. The perception of weak All Blacks scrums goes back to Stephen Jones basket ball comments and the one 13 man scrum of England pre-2003 WC, it's bOllocks.

[Mikey Brown]

I'd have Mako coming off the bench and so start an all Irish front row. Not that I think Mako is necessarily worse or doesn't deserve to start over McGrath, just that I think he probably offers more from the bench.

Faletau or SOB should probably be on the bench given their flexibility, but if you're starting CJ then you don't really need cover at 8

Sigh.

Do you think Gatland purposefully made a couple of contentious picks just to make it interesting? As this is all too civil. I can go along with that suggestion, plus the below one about Sinckler.

We need something to fight about!

Robshaw.

[kk67]

Do you think Gatland purposefully made a couple of contentious picks just to make it interesting? As this is all too civil. I can go along with that suggestion, plus the below one about Sinckler.

We need something to fight about!

Yeah. Injuries are inevitable before the first test. And they'll mostly be in the forwards.
Anyone of the original picks that make it to the tests will deserve their spot. We hope.

I hope the guys who are feeling hard done by just keep it technical in their remaining games.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

I know in NZ bullocks are treated as humans, both in human rights and marital law, but you can't play them at prop.

Oops. Bollocks then. The NZ scrum has had at least parity with the home nations more often than not. The perception of weak All Blacks scrums goes back to Stephen Jones basket ball comments and the one 13 man scrum of England pre-2003 WC, it's bOllocks.

The problem is that that isn't what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that the NZ scrum was especially weak, rather that it isn't used to grind out penalties. NH scrummaging is different not because it's better but because it's seen as an end in and of itself.