RugbyRebels

Coco wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:

Coco wrote:
I agree, however, I think everyone's energy is better expended by moving forward and at least giving him a chance to settle in, let his handlers do their job, and let him show what he is really made of. We all may be surprised, who knows? Personally, I would have worried more had Hillary won.

No republican did that for Obama. Why do you think dems will do it for Trump?

They may not, remains to be seen. People on both sides are ready to vote out political elites. If this shocker did anything, I'd hope it was a huge kick in the career politcians asses that people are done with biz as usual. Guess we will see.

Republicans have the senate and the house, the Democrats are powerless to stop anything. If Trump and the GOP work together, he can do far more in 4 years than Obama could in 8. The question is, what will they do? Paul Ryan has already stated the first thing on the agenda is the unwinding of Obamacare. What will Trump want from the GOP in return for not vetoing it? Funding for his wall? Sign off from the Senate on surveillance of minority religious groups? The horse trading will begin, there is no sea change in Washington, it's going to be business as usual only with an ego-maniacal buffoon at the helm. His rooting for the working class guy was a fraud IMO, he doesn't give a rats arse about Joe six pack or anyone else. Maybe he''ll prove me wrong, starting by upping of the Federal minimum wage he stated he was for. I'm not holding my breath.

Coco wrote:

cashead wrote:

Coco wrote:

Say what?

Because as flawed as it may have been, the Affordable Healthcare Act was a step in the right direction, and was a net positive in its current form for literally millions of people. It meant that those who would have been denied affordable healthcare by a broken medical industry plagued by for-profit institutions were given access.

The Republicans have spent the last 8 years either trying to prevent it by spreading misinformation ("Death panels?" Fuck off and go die in a ditch, Sarah Palin, you fucking human locust swarm.), trying to undermine it or trying to kill it off depending on which part of said 8 years. I guess predatory insurance companies pay rather well.

Now that they control both houses and have a president-elect that is openly hostile to it, what do you think is going to happen? 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Nobody said it wasnt a step in the right direction cashead. It is not working well for the majority of Americans now, myself included. Im really not sure that you understand how this is affecting businesses, and many Americans. There are more uninsured people now than there was prior to. For myself, my monthly premiums have now exceeded my monthly mortgage payment (which isnt peanuts)...and even then, my insurance will not pay a dime until I have spent $12,000 out of pocket for my deductible. Most people are now in this same boat and have thrown their arms up in frustration... Why even have insurance if it isnt going to pay for much at all? Nothing is free, regardless of what media is spoonfeeding the masses. I dont mind helping pay for somebody elses care but ffs, if I am going to do that, I'd like to know I can afford my own care as well.

The Republicans seem to think it's a huge leap in the wrong direction. The voters didn't vote for someone who would fine-tune it (that would've been the other candidate), they voted for someone who is on record saying it will be repealed and replaced, aligned with a party that want a return to the pre-AHA days.

Does California have much of an independence movement?

cashead wrote:

Coco wrote:

cashead wrote: Because as flawed as it may have been, the Affordable Healthcare Act was a step in the right direction, and was a net positive in its current form for literally millions of people. It meant that those who would have been denied affordable healthcare by a broken medical industry plagued by for-profit institutions were given access.

The Republicans have spent the last 8 years either trying to prevent it by spreading misinformation ("Death panels?" Fuck off and go die in a ditch, Sarah Palin, you fucking human locust swarm.), trying to undermine it or trying to kill it off depending on which part of said 8 years. I guess predatory insurance companies pay rather well.

Now that they control both houses and have a president-elect that is openly hostile to it, what do you think is going to happen? 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Nobody said it wasnt a step in the right direction cashead. It is not working well for the majority of Americans now, myself included. Im really not sure that you understand how this is affecting businesses, and many Americans. There are more uninsured people now than there was prior to. For myself, my monthly premiums have now exceeded my monthly mortgage payment (which isnt peanuts)...and even then, my insurance will not pay a dime until I have spent $12,000 out of pocket for my deductible. Most people are now in this same boat and have thrown their arms up in frustration... Why even have insurance if it isnt going to pay for much at all? Nothing is free, regardless of what media is spoonfeeding the masses. I dont mind helping pay for somebody elses care but ffs, if I am going to do that, I'd like to know I can afford my own care as well.

The Republicans seem to think it's a huge leap in the wrong direction. The voters didn't vote for someone who would fine-tune it (that would've been the other candidate), they voted for someone who is on record saying it will be repealed and replaced, aligned with a party that want a return to the pre-AHA days.

I was reading that repealing it will be very difficult. At the very least it means a full refund and insurance companies and refund are not good bedfellows.

J Dory wrote:

Coco wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:
No republican did that for Obama. Why do you think dems will do it for Trump?

They may not, remains to be seen. People on both sides are ready to vote out political elites. If this shocker did anything, I'd hope it was a huge kick in the career politcians asses that people are done with biz as usual. Guess we will see.

Republicans have the senate and the house, the Democrats are powerless to stop anything. If Trump and the GOP work together, he can do far more in 4 years than Obama could in 8. The question is, what will they do? Paul Ryan has already stated the first thing on the agenda is the unwinding of Obamacare. What will Trump want from the GOP in return for not vetoing it? Funding for his wall? Sign off from the Senate on surveillance of minority religious groups? The horse trading will begin, there is no sea change in Washington, it's going to be business as usual only with an ego-maniacal buffoon at the helm. His rooting for the working class guy was a fraud IMO, he doesn't give a rats arse about Joe six pack or anyone else. Maybe he''ll prove me wrong, starting by upping of the Federal minimum wage he stated he was for. I'm not holding my breath.

Not necessarily true. Not all Repubs agree with his agenda. We can speculate to our hearts content but in reality it all remains to be seen.

Refund them what? Premiums went up quite some time ago. They've made money off the fucking thing.

Coco wrote:

J Dory wrote:

Coco wrote:
They may not, remains to be seen. People on both sides are ready to vote out political elites. If this shocker did anything, I'd hope it was a huge kick in the career politcians asses that people are done with biz as usual. Guess we will see.

Republicans have the senate and the house, the Democrats are powerless to stop anything. If Trump and the GOP work together, he can do far more in 4 years than Obama could in 8. The question is, what will they do? Paul Ryan has already stated the first thing on the agenda is the unwinding of Obamacare. What will Trump want from the GOP in return for not vetoing it? Funding for his wall? Sign off from the Senate on surveillance of minority religious groups? The horse trading will begin, there is no sea change in Washington, it's going to be business as usual only with an ego-maniacal buffoon at the helm. His rooting for the working class guy was a fraud IMO, he doesn't give a rats arse about Joe six pack or anyone else. Maybe he''ll prove me wrong, starting by upping of the Federal minimum wage he stated he was for. I'm not holding my breath.

Not necessarily true. Not all Repubs agree with his agenda. We can speculate to our hearts content but in reality it all remains to be seen.

That's kind of my point, it's still going to be you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, only now the guy with the biggest scratchy stick is orange coloured. You're right, we need to wait and see, and while I admire you optimism, or positivism perhaps it should be called, I don't share it based on what Trumps shown of himself up to this time. Que sera sera.

J Dory wrote:

Coco wrote:

J Dory wrote:
Republicans have the senate and the house, the Democrats are powerless to stop anything. If Trump and the GOP work together, he can do far more in 4 years than Obama could in 8. The question is, what will they do? Paul Ryan has already stated the first thing on the agenda is the unwinding of Obamacare. What will Trump want from the GOP in return for not vetoing it? Funding for his wall? Sign off from the Senate on surveillance of minority religious groups? The horse trading will begin, there is no sea change in Washington, it's going to be business as usual only with an ego-maniacal buffoon at the helm. His rooting for the working class guy was a fraud IMO, he doesn't give a rats arse about Joe six pack or anyone else. Maybe he''ll prove me wrong, starting by upping of the Federal minimum wage he stated he was for. I'm not holding my breath.

Not necessarily true. Not all Repubs agree with his agenda. We can speculate to our hearts content but in reality it all remains to be seen.

That's kind of my point, it's still going to be you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, only now the guy with the biggest scratchy stick is orange coloured. You're right, we need to wait and see, and while I admire you optimism, or positivism perhaps it should be called, I don't share it based on what Trumps shown of himself up to this time. Que sera sera.

Maybe I could take the spare room in your hoose, aye?

cashead wrote:

Coco wrote:

cashead wrote: Because as flawed as it may have been, the Affordable Healthcare Act was a step in the right direction, and was a net positive in its current form for literally millions of people. It meant that those who would have been denied affordable healthcare by a broken medical industry plagued by for-profit institutions were given access.

The Republicans have spent the last 8 years either trying to prevent it by spreading misinformation ("Death panels?" Fuck off and go die in a ditch, Sarah Palin, you fucking human locust swarm.), trying to undermine it or trying to kill it off depending on which part of said 8 years. I guess predatory insurance companies pay rather well.

Now that they control both houses and have a president-elect that is openly hostile to it, what do you think is going to happen? 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Nobody said it wasnt a step in the right direction cashead. It is not working well for the majority of Americans now, myself included. Im really not sure that you understand how this is affecting businesses, and many Americans. There are more uninsured people now than there was prior to. For myself, my monthly premiums have now exceeded my monthly mortgage payment (which isnt peanuts)...and even then, my insurance will not pay a dime until I have spent $12,000 out of pocket for my deductible. Most people are now in this same boat and have thrown their arms up in frustration... Why even have insurance if it isnt going to pay for much at all? Nothing is free, regardless of what media is spoonfeeding the masses. I dont mind helping pay for somebody elses care but ffs, if I am going to do that, I'd like to know I can afford my own care as well.

The Republicans seem to think it's a huge leap in the wrong direction. The voters didn't vote for someone who would fine-tune it (that would've been the other candidate), they voted for someone who is on record saying it will be repealed and replaced, aligned with a party that want a return to the pre-AHA days.

I have to disagree. I am sure that was a scary talking point but most Repubs just want it affordable for everyone.. As it is right now, it is not even close. Please consider entertaining the notion that the vast majority of Repubs are not the redneck, white trash, racist, bigoted idiots the main stream media portray them to be. Some of us are even educated, believe it or not.

Coco wrote:

cashead wrote:

Coco wrote:
Nobody said it wasnt a step in the right direction cashead. It is not working well for the majority of Americans now, myself included. Im really not sure that you understand how this is affecting businesses, and many Americans. There are more uninsured people now than there was prior to. For myself, my monthly premiums have now exceeded my monthly mortgage payment (which isnt peanuts)...and even then, my insurance will not pay a dime until I have spent $12,000 out of pocket for my deductible. Most people are now in this same boat and have thrown their arms up in frustration... Why even have insurance if it isnt going to pay for much at all? Nothing is free, regardless of what media is spoonfeeding the masses. I dont mind helping pay for somebody elses care but ffs, if I am going to do that, I'd like to know I can afford my own care as well.

The Republicans seem to think it's a huge leap in the wrong direction. The voters didn't vote for someone who would fine-tune it (that would've been the other candidate), they voted for someone who is on record saying it will be repealed and replaced, aligned with a party that want a return to the pre-AHA days.

I have to disagree. I am sure that was a scary talking point but most Repubs just want it affordable for everyone.. As it is right now, it is not even close. Please consider entertaining the notion that the vast majority of Repubs are not the redneck, white trash, racist, bigoted idiots the main stream media portray them to be. Some of us are even educated, believe it or not.

Oh, I don't think they're redneck white trash at all. But I'm going to disagree that they're not "bigoted," when their rhetoric speaks for itself.

morepork wrote: Maybe I could take the spare room in your hoose, aye?

We're building a wall, last thing we need is American refugees coming in here with your raping and drugs etc etc.

J Dory wrote:

Coco wrote:

J Dory wrote:
Republicans have the senate and the house, the Democrats are powerless to stop anything. If Trump and the GOP work together, he can do far more in 4 years than Obama could in 8. The question is, what will they do? Paul Ryan has already stated the first thing on the agenda is the unwinding of Obamacare. What will Trump want from the GOP in return for not vetoing it? Funding for his wall? Sign off from the Senate on surveillance of minority religious groups? The horse trading will begin, there is no sea change in Washington, it's going to be business as usual only with an ego-maniacal buffoon at the helm. His rooting for the working class guy was a fraud IMO, he doesn't give a rats arse about Joe six pack or anyone else. Maybe he''ll prove me wrong, starting by upping of the Federal minimum wage he stated he was for. I'm not holding my breath.

Not necessarily true. Not all Repubs agree with his agenda. We can speculate to our hearts content but in reality it all remains to be seen.

That's kind of my point, it's still going to be you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, only now the guy with the biggest scratchy stick is orange coloured. You're right, we need to wait and see, and while I admire you optimism, or positivism perhaps it should be called, I don't share it based on what Trumps shown of himself up to this time. Que sera sera.

I hear you. Don't blame you either. For me, I have been waiting the last 8 years for things to get better and turn around. I am very ready to try something else, and who knows? The orange bafoon may surprise us. I was not happy about Obama but gave him a chance, too.

J Dory wrote:

morepork wrote: Maybe I could take the spare room in your hoose, aye?

We're building a wall, last thing we need is American refugees coming in here with your raping and drugs etc etc.

Hurry or we will take your jobs!

morepork wrote:Refund them what? Premiums went up quite some time ago. They've made money off the fucking thing.

No doubt.
I was working on the, probably naïve assumption, that if it's repealed, under contract law, those who have paid the premiums and not claimed would be entitled to a refund on the basis that the customer had fulfilled primary and secondary terms of the contract and the services were not delivered and no longer able to be delivered.

My understanding of contract law is 30 years out of date and it wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong.

Lizard wrote:Does California have much of an independence movement?

4 or 5 years ago there were rumors that California might break up in to 3 sep states, (northern, central, and southern). Have not heard much about it since. Maybe I misunderstood the question?

Coco wrote:

Lizard wrote:Does California have much of an independence movement?

4 or 5 years ago there were rumors that California might break up in to 3 sep states, (northern, central, and southern). Have not heard much about it since. Maybe I misunderstood the question?

Don't be cute Cocoid.

Secede. A pinko liberal Texas.

J Dory wrote:It will be an interesting few months in American politics. His choices for his administration might provide some insight into what will actually be implemented versus what was election rhetoric. I've heard Giuliani is inline to be Attorney General, scary stuff for American citizens. If the US isn't a police state already, lets see where Rudy takes it.

There have been so many worrying promises made in his campaign, "opening up" libel laws to make suing reporters easier, surveillance of US mosques, using torture during interrogation, mass deportation of 11 million people.

Misogyny, racism, denial of climate change, a warped sense of entitlement, massive ego, lack of self control, all wrapped up in pig ignorance. I can see him making any number of deals with special interest groups to the detriment of the future of the American people, and the world for that matter.

I guess we have to wait and see what he actually does, but it's all a bit frightening and depressing.

And a bit hysterical. I doubt you'll be getting shipped back to Nuristan. Relax the kacks.

Incidentally the US already is a surveillance state.

morepork wrote:

Coco wrote:

Lizard wrote:Does California have much of an independence movement?

4 or 5 years ago there were rumors that California might break up in to 3 sep states, (northern, central, and southern). Have not heard much about it since. Maybe I misunderstood the question?

Don't be cute Cocoid.

Secede. A pinko liberal Texas.

Turns out there is one. http://www.yescalifornia.org/ #calexit

Trump's biggest ally in this election may well have been Obama. The incumbent ran on the promise of change but delivered mostly a continuation of the normal crap - at home and abroad. In some respects, he was even worse than his infamous predecessor. In regards to foreign policy he was more of a neo-con than a democrat, and that is exactly how Clinton was shaping up. For all the faults of their leadership, I've tried never to criticize the American people themselves too much, and today they have certainly gained my respect. They saw that Clinton was going to represent a continuation of these dreadful policies and they were fed up with it. Trump is an unknown quantity, but sometimes it's a case of better the devil you don't know.

As an English pal of mine wrote on Facebook:

"I suggest a preliminary choice on ballots before anybody can proceed to choose in elections/referendums.

1. I believe in democracy and all votes are equal. I understand that both sides have had the chance to put their case fully and that even if I don't agree with the result, I will respect it.

2. I only entered this because the pollsters told me we would win . Should we lose I reserve the right to whinge indefinately that people clearly intellectually inferior to what I am didn't understand the issue."

Fucking hell, it's cliche-wang.

White middle class America is being squeezed. Capitalism wants rid of them. Bring in Mustafa the taxi driver, give him a smart phone and google maps( he doesn't need to know the streets of NYC), and pay him in bottle tops. Anyone criticises it, called them bigoted.

It was only a matter of time before the middle classes reacted. This is it I think. Unlike previous eras there was no bloodshed, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Anyone else think that Uncle Sam's house is bearing a remarkable similarity to 4th century Rome?

Vengeful Glutton wrote:
And a bit hysterical. I doubt you'll be getting shipped back to Nuristan. Relax the kacks.

Incidentally the US already is a surveillance state.

You remind me of someone .....

canta_brian wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:

Or an education. Bernie where art thou? Young people have stayed away in droves.

I haven't been following this word for word - too depressing - but is that right because last I heard turnout was up. If it is right, then they've got no one but themselves to blame when they see the consequences.

I don't quite agree with the "no one but themselves to blame" sentiment. I wonder if a lot of young people in America simply decided that they couldn't bring themselves to vote for the status quo. The Republicans have the house again so Hillary wouldn't have been able to change much even if she had wanted to. If I was a Sanders fan, and a lot of the younger generation seem to have been a supporter I would probably have chosen to Vote for Hillary. However I can understand the sentiment that having Trump in the chair is a form of change at least. If nothing else if Trump enacts some of his ideas it will focus the need for change in America in a way that a Vote for Clinton couldn't for these people.

It's fucking idiotic. Not all change is equally good or bad. Electing Trump is the shit that happens when fuckwits peddle that sort of nonsense. This isn't just a 4 years cycle they've fucked it's potentially most of their working lives as the Supreme Court appointees rob them of abortion rights, affimative action, their lives by striking down gun control measures and allow Trump to rule by executive order. FUCK. THAT. SHIT.

kk67 wrote:

morepork wrote:Refund them what? Premiums went up quite some time ago. They've made money off the fucking thing.

No doubt.
I was working on the, probably naïve assumption, that if it's repealed, under contract law, those who have paid the premiums and not claimed would be entitled to a refund on the basis that the customer had fulfilled primary and secondary terms of the contract and the services were not delivered and no longer able to be delivered.

My understanding of contract law is 30 years out of date and it wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong.

Even 30 years ago you'd have been wrong.

cashead wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: And UKIP won more than both the Lib Dems and the Greens. Yet I imagine you weren't complaining about that?
For all the moaning about first past the post, it does keep the extreme fringes at bay. Well, most of the time.

Hmmm. 1988 was the last time the Republicans lost the popular vote and still won.

Al Gore would like to have a word with you.

It's perverse/insane to have system for electing one person which makes winning with less votes possible.