RugbyRebels

It's a lot easier and quicker to write 12.

For me the days of the bosh center are over, back rows now cover the channel and 10 can at least slow the bowyer down, not to say it won't come back, rugby seems very cyclic but for now and next few years I think the big bosher will be replaced for a more skillful player.

And yet I'd pick Manu if he were available, he might not have developed his game as Leicester and England fans would like, but his ability to break the line is just daft

The ABs are unlikely to deploy a 2nd 5. However they expect all their players - seemingly including forwards - to pass better than say a Mike Brown or a JD2 or an Andrew Trimble. They expect players to be able to evade with footwork and/or a pass as well as drive through. The expect them to know what is appropriate at any given moment. That is our problem.

SerjeantWildgoose wrote:Back on the old BBC boards we had a week of discussing whether the 5/8th should be decimalised (0.625). We'd have been truly fecked if we'd had to separate out the 2nd 5/8th, or 1 and a quarter in new money.

Ahhhh, the good old days.
Why did we rebel again?

whatisthejava wrote:For me the days of the bosh center are over, back rows now cover the channel and 10 can at least slow the bowyer down, not to say it won't come back, rugby seems very cyclic but for now and next few years I think the big bosher will be replaced for a more skillful player.

I think that getting over the advantage line remains important and there are times when you want a powerful player just to put their head down and give the forwards a target. Ideally you want that player to have some decent footballing skills as well. However, the days of having 2 crash ball specialists in the midfield must surely be over. Provided there is a balance in the backline (you could have all the backs as great handlers who couldn't truck the ball up) then that must be the way forward.

And that needs to be allied to a willingness by coaches to take some risks.

whatisthejava wrote:For me the days of the bosh center are over, back rows now cover the channel and 10 can at least slow the bowyer down, not to say it won't come back, rugby seems very cyclic but for now and next few years I think the big bosher will be replaced for a more skillful player.

I'm not suggesting a bosher at 12 per se (Roberts was an ill advised example...Nonu, better), but you do need a runner who threatens the defence imo, footwork, pace, physique (all three preferable), and one who has good passing skills (shouldn't need to be said)...and I put a premium on the running aspect vs say 'second playmaker/long passer/kicker' who doesn't threaten a defence (Faz). As Eugene says, it doesn't really enter the AB selectors minds that the 12 may not have a rounded skill set (though Nonu was sent off years ago to work on those aspects!).

So, ideally your 12 is a dangerous runner with playmaking skills; but if he isn't a dangerous runner, and your alternative is a less skilled bosher or runner, I'd go for the latter.

Sandydragon wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:For me the days of the bosh center are over, back rows now cover the channel and 10 can at least slow the bowyer down, not to say it won't come back, rugby seems very cyclic but for now and next few years I think the big bosher will be replaced for a more skillful player.

I think that getting over the advantage line remains important and there are times when you want a powerful player just to put their head down and give the forwards a target. Ideally you want that player to have some decent footballing skills as well. However, the days of having 2 crash ball specialists in the midfield must surely be over. Provided there is a balance in the backline (you could have all the backs as great handlers who couldn't truck the ball up) then that must be the way forward.

And that needs to be allied to a willingness by coaches to take some risks.

I can't remember too many sides who have put two crash ball centres out tbh, at least recently.

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:For me the days of the bosh center are over, back rows now cover the channel and 10 can at least slow the bowyer down, not to say it won't come back, rugby seems very cyclic but for now and next few years I think the big bosher will be replaced for a more skillful player.

I think that getting over the advantage line remains important and there are times when you want a powerful player just to put their head down and give the forwards a target. Ideally you want that player to have some decent footballing skills as well. However, the days of having 2 crash ball specialists in the midfield must surely be over. Provided there is a balance in the backline (you could have all the backs as great handlers who couldn't truck the ball up) then that must be the way forward.

And that needs to be allied to a willingness by coaches to take some risks.

I can't remember too many sides who have put two crash ball centres out tbh, at least recently.

Given JD2s passing ability, I think Wales have come the closest. Certainly when we have tried more skilful players, we seem to have reverted back to big is best pretty quickly.

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I think that getting over the advantage line remains important and there are times when you want a powerful player just to put their head down and give the forwards a target. Ideally you want that player to have some decent footballing skills as well. However, the days of having 2 crash ball specialists in the midfield must surely be over. Provided there is a balance in the backline (you could have all the backs as great handlers who couldn't truck the ball up) then that must be the way forward.

And that needs to be allied to a willingness by coaches to take some risks.

I can't remember too many sides who have put two crash ball centres out tbh, at least recently.

Given JD2s passing ability, I think Wales have come the closest. Certainly when we have tried more skilful players, we seem to have reverted back to big is best pretty quickly.

JD2 is a runner rather than crash ball though, at least in my mind!

Probably more so than pure crash ball, he has a tidy left boot (normally) as well. But a skilful distributer he aint. Thats kind of what I meant by Wales coming closest, one pure crash ball centre and one who can run a nice line, but lacks the handling skills one would normally expect from an international centre.

Not that JD2 is the only Welsh back who seems to lack the right level of handling skill, but that is for another thread.

Sandydragon wrote:Probably more so than pure crash ball, he has a tidy left boot (normally) as well. But a skilful distributer he aint. Thats kind of what I meant by Wales coming closest, one pure crash ball centre and one who can run a nice line, but lacks the handling skills one would normally expect from an international centre.

Not that JD2 is the only Welsh back who seems to lack the right level of handling skill, but that is for another thread.

well, we had Burgess and Barritt briefly , so I have top trumps in the crap crash centre selections, so my memory was in fact faulty.

Mind, I think Roberts is more skilled than he is allowed to be.

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Probably more so than pure crash ball, he has a tidy left boot (normally) as well. But a skilful distributer he aint. Thats kind of what I meant by Wales coming closest, one pure crash ball centre and one who can run a nice line, but lacks the handling skills one would normally expect from an international centre.

Not that JD2 is the only Welsh back who seems to lack the right level of handling skill, but that is for another thread.

well, we had Burgess and Barritt briefly , so I have top trumps in the crap crash centre selections, so my memory was in fact faulty.

Mind, I think Roberts is more skilled than he is allowed to be.

To a degree. Wales haven't liked offloads for quite some time so we have been quite content for him to carry the ball and then recycle. He hasn't had the same pressure to develop as Nonu had.

Fair call on Burgess and Barritt. I win on duration score, but otherwise they score perfect 10s on the vision and distribution (lack of) front.

Whilst thinking about uninspiring centres a terrible memory came back to me... didn't we have a squad involving this lot in the centre? Flutey, Hipkiss, Hape, Noon & Tindall aka bosh bosh bosh bosh bosh

Which Tyler wrote:

SerjeantWildgoose wrote:Back on the old BBC boards we had a week of discussing whether the 5/8th should be decimalised (0.625). We'd have been truly fecked if we'd had to separate out the 2nd 5/8th, or 1 and a quarter in new money.

Ahhhh, the good old days.
Why did we rebel again?

because the BBC wouldn't let us say 'bum' or 'flip' (The cunts!) and you were only allowed to post once every three and a half weeks.

Admittedly the imposed delay between postings would have made the Lurk thread a damn site more competitive!

iLovett wrote:Whilst thinking about uninspiring centres a terrible memory came back to me... didn't we have a squad involving this lot in the centre? Flutey, Hipkiss, Hape, Noon & Tindall aka bosh bosh bosh bosh bosh

Flutey wasn't bosh, decent player I thought. But yes, I must have had deliberate amnesia

I don't know what makes you think Roberts is skillful. He came to Quins hoping to play a more open game and he really doesn't seem to do it very well when he tries. Manages some good offloads every so often but that's about it.

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't know what makes you think Roberts is skillful. He came to Quins hoping to play a more open game and he really doesn't seem to do it very well when he tries. Manages some good offloads every so often but that's about it.

Because I've seen him play at both full back and wing when younger and show more skills. Perhaps he's forgotten! Anyway, playing in that quins team would drag anyone down. I also said 'more skilled than allowed to be', as in Gatland refuses to let him do owt but bosh, so any offload or pass must improve on that.

Digby wrote:And yet I'd pick Manu if he were available, he might not have developed his game as Leicester and England fans would like, but his ability to break the line is just daft

You could remove the "the line" bit out of that sentence.

Does Gatland have a bit of consistency with running out concussed players?

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't know what makes you think Roberts is skillful. He came to Quins hoping to play a more open game and he really doesn't seem to do it very well when he tries. Manages some good offloads every so often but that's about it.

He's a better player than Gatland has utilised.

morepork wrote:Does Gatland have a bit of consistency with running out concussed players?

Yes he does. He's been rapped over the knuckles once. He clearly couldn't give a fuck about the safety of his players.

kk67 wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't know what makes you think Roberts is skillful. He came to Quins hoping to play a more open game and he really doesn't seem to do it very well when he tries. Manages some good offloads every so often but that's about it.

He's a better player than Gatland has utilised.

perhaps better put than me!

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

morepork wrote:Does Gatland have a bit of consistency with running out concussed players?

Yes he does. He's been rapped over the knuckles once. He clearly couldn't give a fuck about the safety of his players.

Gatland doesn't perform the HIA's Eugene that's done by a doctor, but I am pretty sure he is responsible for world poverty and brexit.

If you see one of your players sparked out, you don't put them back on the pitch. If an international coach in the 21st century is not aware that loss of consciousness equals manifest neurological abnormalities for up to one year with concrete evidence of compromised cerebral glucose metabolism, then they are dangerously out of touch. Add repeat episodes into that equation, and well, fuck...