normanski wrote:I see Eddie the hypocrite has attacked World Rugby for announcing that the TMO did make a mistake in not awarding the try. The game is done and dusted and there should be no need to comment further he said.
It’s rather rich that only Eddie the hippo is allowed to comment after the game like when he complained officially to World Rugby about AWJ in a match that his team were not even involved in.
Eddie is a world class prick. People like him, Richard Cockerill, Boudjelal, and sometimes gatland pushes the line a bit to far too, are a cancer on the game. Classless pricks with the win at all cost mentality
Numbers wrote:
That's because the ball has gone forwards from the hand originally and was not regathered or controlled again before kicking it.
I don't know why this is being persisted with, when none of us have even given the opinion that it changed the match significantly, I would be more concerned by Mike Brown's professional foul towards the end of the game, for which he should have been yellow-carded.
So, if the ball goes backwards from an attempted deliberate, or otherwise knock-on/interception, without getting the ball under control and then kicked forwards? It's still a knock-on right?
Case in point; England Vs Wales in the pre-summer tour warm up in 2016. Biggar throws a pass to Moriarty, but Cole sticks a hand out, the ball clearly bounces backwards, Clifford picks it up and then runs in from the halfway creaming Scott Williams along the way. Try is good. Much to the protestations from the WesternMail after the match.
Had Cole tried to kick it forward, it would've been a knock-on as he didn't have control at the time. However, he left the ball, a player onside picked up the ball and did the rest.
My point is, Evans lost control the moment the ball hit his fingers and he failed to catch or be in the position to intentionally kick the ball forward.
It would be interesting to hear world rugby's interpretation of that, rather than the grounding which was obviously clear.
But hey, like you say, it doesn't matter
No that is wrong, the ball never went forwards, did it, so the ball is in open play, therefore kicking it would be fine.
I know the ball didn't go forward, but I'm sure I've read an explanation after it happened that stated had Cole kicked the ball after losing control, it would've been deemed a knock-on as the kick would not have satisfied the definition of a kick.
normanski wrote:I see Eddie the hypocrite has attacked World Rugby for announcing that the TMO did make a mistake in not awarding the try. The game is done and dusted and there should be no need to comment further he said.
It’s rather rich that only Eddie the hippo is allowed to comment after the game like when he complained officially to World Rugby about AWJ in a match that his team were not even involved in.
He has made things rather awkward for himself now. If he criticises any on field decisions from now on, his comments will look even more ridiculous.
Players on the pitch have to accept the decisions, even if they are incorrect, but surely post-match debate and justification should be allowed.
WaspInWales wrote:
So, if the ball goes backwards from an attempted deliberate, or otherwise knock-on/interception, without getting the ball under control and then kicked forwards? It's still a knock-on right?
Case in point; England Vs Wales in the pre-summer tour warm up in 2016. Biggar throws a pass to Moriarty, but Cole sticks a hand out, the ball clearly bounces backwards, Clifford picks it up and then runs in from the halfway creaming Scott Williams along the way. Try is good. Much to the protestations from the WesternMail after the match.
Had Cole tried to kick it forward, it would've been a knock-on as he didn't have control at the time. However, he left the ball, a player onside picked up the ball and did the rest.
My point is, Evans lost control the moment the ball hit his fingers and he failed to catch or be in the position to intentionally kick the ball forward.
It would be interesting to hear world rugby's interpretation of that, rather than the grounding which was obviously clear.
But hey, like you say, it doesn't matter
No that is wrong, the ball never went forwards, did it, so the ball is in open play, therefore kicking it would be fine.
I know the ball didn't go forward, but I'm sure I've read an explanation after it happened that stated had Cole kicked the ball after losing control, it would've been deemed a knock-on as the kick would not have satisfied the definition of a kick.
I can only say what you've read there is erroneous, look at this way, if someone in a lineout were to knock it back towards there own side and it go to ground then you think that someone from the same side kicking it would constitute a knock-on?
Simply put if the ball doesn't go forwards from the drop it can never be a knock-on.
Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
oldbackrow wrote:Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
As long as the ball doesn't go forwards from his hand and then comes off the knee it is fine, it's not an attempt to kick so not deemed as such.
oldbackrow wrote:Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
Only if it bounces over the England tryline and you jump on it.
normanski wrote:I see Eddie the hypocrite has attacked World Rugby for announcing that the TMO did make a mistake in not awarding the try. The game is done and dusted and there should be no need to comment further he said.
It’s rather rich that only Eddie the hippo is allowed to comment after the game like when he complained officially to World Rugby about AWJ in a match that his team were not even involved in.
He has made things rather awkward for himself now. If he criticises any on field decisions from now on, his comments will look even more ridiculous.
Players on the pitch have to accept the decisions, even if they are incorrect, but surely post-match debate and justification should be allowed.
I don’t want rugby to become like soccer where refs get very little respect, or so it often appears. But whilst the refs word is law on the pitch is a fair call in a game that can get violent and dangerous, I have no issues in team management seeking clarification post match or even making a complaint if the ref has been awful. A poor ref can ruin the game and honest feedback, at the right time and place, is fair enough.
normanski wrote:I see Eddie the hypocrite has attacked World Rugby for announcing that the TMO did make a mistake in not awarding the try. The game is done and dusted and there should be no need to comment further he said.
It’s rather rich that only Eddie the hippo is allowed to comment after the game like when he complained officially to World Rugby about AWJ in a match that his team were not even involved in.
He has made things rather awkward for himself now. If he criticises any on field decisions from now on, his comments will look even more ridiculous.
Players on the pitch have to accept the decisions, even if they are incorrect, but surely post-match debate and justification should be allowed.
I don’t want rugby to become like soccer where refs get very little respect, or so it often appears. But whilst the refs word is law on the pitch is a fair call in a game that can get violent and dangerous, I have no issues in team management seeking clarification post match or even making a complaint if the ref has been awful. A poor ref can ruin the game and honest feedback, at the right time and place, is fair enough.
I don't like the ambiguity of the law (or application) as it stands. Who is to say what a "deliberate" act is? A "deliberately" punted ball is dropped, forwards, onto a player's leg/foot, and that's legal. I see no reason why an accidental fumble - which is regained OR kicked BEFORE is touches the ground or another player - should be given as a knock-on. By that standard, any form of "juggle" must also inevitably be a knock-on. Keep it simple: from hand directly forward to ground = knock-on; everything else = fine.
oldbackrow wrote:Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
Coming to this a bit late, but virtually every kick out of hand is forward pass, but it isn't ruled as such.
oldbackrow wrote:Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
Coming to this a bit late, but virtually every kick out of hand is forward pass, but it isn't ruled as such.
The definition of a "kick"relating to the laws would say otherwise.
oldbackrow wrote:Not looking for an argument in this but trying to get my head round it.
Scenario; Ball kicked towards opponents 22 and full back comes to collect it. Awkward bounce and it hits his hand and goes onto his knee and goes in front of him. Is that a knock on or can he pick it up /kick it?
Coming to this a bit late, but virtually every kick out of hand is forward pass, but it isn't ruled as such.
The definition of a "kick"relating to the laws would say otherwise.
Interesting, but think of every other kick, the ball is propelled forward and then is kicked, but no forward pass. I think the key might be control.
Agreed. Dropping the ball deliberately onto the foot for a kick is a deliberate act as opposed to dropping the ball and then trying to kick. The latter always looks awkward and refs most likely ping it as a player not in control of the ball.
