RugbyRebels

Noon, Grewcock, Worsley, Sheridan - where's Beefeater when you need him?

francoisfou wrote:The last time England lost to France at HQ was on February 13th 2005, 17-18, and they shouldn't as they were 17-6 up at half time. Barkley and Hodgson missed 6 penalties between them whilst Yachvili kicked 6 penalties to win. Where was Sir Jonny on that day?

Check out this link. There were some great players in that French 23 including Chabal, Betsen, Pelous, Servat, Yachvili, Traille.
That England team wasn't half bad either.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 243757.stm

I remember that game - we were in such doldrums that Grewcock offloading out if a tackle to make a try was cause for wild celebrations that we had achieved a piece of skill. There were a few good players on both sides, but I don't think either were making good use of them!

Hopefully this weekend should be more of a contest between good teams, rather than a battle of the least worst.

Puja

France did do well for a while in Paris, then again conditions made it a slow game. What's the weather for London on Sunday?

Against which England controlled Ireland by kicking a lot to slow the game and reduce our possession and plays of the ball and by winning contact. In advance you'd want lots of play the balls at as much pace as possible, and to avoid contact

francoisfou wrote:The last time England lost to France at HQ was on February 13th 2005, 17-18, and they shouldn't as they were 17-6 up at half time. Barkley and Hodgson missed 6 penalties between them whilst Yachvili kicked 6 penalties to win. Where was Sir Jonny on that day?

Check out this link. There were some great players in that French 23 including Chabal, Betsen, Pelous, Servat, Yachvili, Traille.
That England team wasn't half bad either.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_u ... 243757.stm

I was there; utterly chucked the game away.

Digby wrote:France did do well for a while in Paris, then again conditions made it a slow game. What's the weather for London on Sunday?

Dry, cloudy and 10c. Take that with a pinch of salt as it's bookended by rain AFD on Friday and Sunday.

firstphase wrote:Noon, Grewcock, Worsley, Sheridan - where's Beefeater when you need him?

I miss beefy I bet he loves this england team.

Digby wrote:France did do well for a while in Paris, then again conditions made it a slow game. What's the weather for London on Sunday?

Against which England controlled Ireland by kicking a lot to slow the game and reduce our possession and plays of the ball and by winning contact. In advance you'd want lots of play the balls at as much pace as possible, and to avoid contact

Dammit - I had assumed the game was Saturday, so you've just personally made me wait another 24 hours for it.

Met office reckons the weather will be dry and cloudy, so could be good conditions if they're right.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:France did do well for a while in Paris, then again conditions made it a slow game. What's the weather for London on Sunday?

Against which England controlled Ireland by kicking a lot to slow the game and reduce our possession and plays of the ball and by winning contact. In advance you'd want lots of play the balls at as much pace as possible, and to avoid contact

Dammit - I had assumed the game was Saturday, so you've just personally made me wait another 24 hours for it.

Met office reckons the weather will be dry and cloudy, so could be good conditions if they're right.

Puja

Balls, so did I (in spite of the fact I have plans to catch up with folk in the pub while watching it). Beeb says Sunday is rainy from dawn til dusk.

England head coach Eddie Jones has retained 25 players to continue their preparation ahead of Sunday’s Guinness Six Nations match against France at Twickenham Stadium (KO 3pm).

The group includes uncapped scrum-half Dan Robson and fit again Brad Shields, Joe Launchbury and Joe Cokanasiga.

England opened their Six Nations campaign with victory in Ireland on Saturday.

Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Dan Robson (Wasps) *
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Props changed out, Moon for Genge, Cole for Williams.

Hrmm, I'd be hoping Ashton and Shields are the two to miss out

I'm not in anyway confident that will be the case though!

Giving us a choice of Shields or Hughes isn't fair

Renniks wrote:Hrmm, I'd be hoping Ashton and Shields are the two to miss out

I'm not in anyway confident that will be the case though!

I'd be tempted by Shields over Hughes. Shields has a work rate and covers more positions better.

Pleased that Cole replaces Williams, who I am not impressed by in general. Not sure why Moon over Genge, although it might just be rotation. Or perceived stronger scrummagers against the French?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:Hrmm, I'd be hoping Ashton and Shields are the two to miss out

I'm not in anyway confident that will be the case though!

I'd be tempted by Shields over Hughes. Shields has a work rate and covers more positions better.

Pleased that Cole replaces Williams, who I am not impressed by in general. Not sure why Moon over Genge, although it might just be rotation. Or perceived stronger scrummagers against the French?

Puja

There's a thread of logic to starting Moon and Cole vs the French scrum, then switching to Mako and Sinkler once their pack is knackered.
I'm not sure if I agree with it, but it's there.

Remember this from 4 years ago?

Dislike the Genge swap.

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:Hrmm, I'd be hoping Ashton and Shields are the two to miss out

I'm not in anyway confident that will be the case though!

I'd be tempted by Shields over Hughes. Shields has a work rate and covers more positions better.

Pleased that Cole replaces Williams, who I am not impressed by in general. Not sure why Moon over Genge, although it might just be rotation. Or perceived stronger scrummagers against the French?

Puja

There's a thread of logic to starting Moon and Cole vs the French scrum, then switching to Mako and Sinkler once their pack is knackered.
I'm not sure if I agree with it, but it's there.

Yep - but there’s also a logic to say ‘why change a winning team?’

The French scrum looked pretty weak against Wales, despite the size. Wonder if Moon and Cole are in there to target their scrum as a weakness, rather than worrying about it as a strength.

I’d have Shields on the bench over Hughes, as the French defensive lineout was disruptive and he might be useful to have if things aren’t working in that area.

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:Hrmm, I'd be hoping Ashton and Shields are the two to miss out

I'm not in anyway confident that will be the case though!

I'd be tempted by Shields over Hughes. Shields has a work rate and covers more positions better.

Pleased that Cole replaces Williams, who I am not impressed by in general. Not sure why Moon over Genge, although it might just be rotation. Or perceived stronger scrummagers against the French?

Puja

There's a thread of logic to starting Moon and Cole vs the French scrum, then switching to Mako and Sinkler once their pack is knackered.
I'm not sure if I agree with it, but it's there.

I meant over Genge and Williams, rather than dropping Mako or Sinckler. Only a madman would drop Mako for Moon after last week and not even Eddie's that mental. Could see an argument for Cole ahead of Sinckler, but it's not a great one.

I really do think it's to rotate the bench and keep the squad happy. Although i'm not sure Ashton and Genge will consider their 10 minutes combined against Ireland as fair trade if Cokanasiga and Moon get significanf minutes against France.

Puja

Had Shields been fit last week would he have got the 6 shirt or a bench spot? How the hell he's in this 25 mystifies me. Isiekwe would have made more sense.

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:

Puja wrote:
I'd be tempted by Shields over Hughes. Shields has a work rate and covers more positions better.

Pleased that Cole replaces Williams, who I am not impressed by in general. Not sure why Moon over Genge, although it might just be rotation. Or perceived stronger scrummagers against the French?

Puja

There's a thread of logic to starting Moon and Cole vs the French scrum, then switching to Mako and Sinkler once their pack is knackered.
I'm not sure if I agree with it, but it's there.

I meant over Genge and Williams, rather than dropping Mako or Sinckler. Only a madman would drop Mako for Moon after last week and not even Eddie's that mental. Could see an argument for Cole ahead of Sinckler, but it's not a great one.

I really do think it's to rotate the bench and keep the squad happy. Although i'm not sure Ashton and Genge will consider their 10 minutes combined against Ireland as fair trade if Cokanasiga and Moon get significanf minutes against France.

Puja

Could Eddie be trying to second guess Brunel’s selection?

With Antonio injured, he’s likely to turn to Slimani who is a much better scrummaging prop so I’m wondering whether he’s thinking Moon may be better equipped to deal with him?

Cole over Williams doesn’t change a great deal IMO. If Cole can bring his recent club form, he’d be an upgrade. Williams has been anonymous at best and poor at worst.

Actually, I just checked and Slimani’s not in the squad. Bamba is the young tighthead who has been coming off the bench for Antonio and I’m not sure whether Aldegheri is a tighthead or not?

I’m just relieved we have wing covered

France looked quite good in the first half against Wales then imploded with some typical sloppy play. England have their tails up after a good win in Dublin.
It's hard to predict anything other than a comprehensive humping for the Frogs playing at Tickers.

Raggs wrote:Dislike the Genge swap.

I heartily concur

I think EJ might have seen the flaw in leaving himself unable to make a change at 1 (as with 9) in such a tight game as the Ireland one was, up to a point.

It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that Mako is totally knackered after that performance and that having Moon there to take on the French scrum relieves some pressure. As much as it seems harsh on Genge to get 5 minutes off the bench then get dropped, having the option of preserving Mako (if needs be) is probably worth more.

For I now Genge would hammer the French props anyway, but we can't be that sure. If he doesn't get a considerable amount of time against Italy I'll be gutted though.