RugbyRebels

Just hope Singleton gets a rest.

Spiffy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:What is Eddie supposed to do if someone else plays 15 and is good there?

Jones' lack of rotation at 15 is surprising. Obviously Daly is his main man, but he is not an outstanding FB (though he is getting better.) He is though, a top quality wing, as he has shown in the past for England and the Lions. I think Watson could do the job at 15, but if he is the understudy, then Jones should be giving him game time in this slot. I would not be concerned with his less than stellar performances at 15 in the past since I think he has improved all aspects of his play in the back three since.
Still think the most potent back three for England could be Watson (FB) May/Daly (wings) - I doubt there would be a faster trio in world rugby.
All of that said, if Jones is looking for a tough nut, safety-first FB who can defend and still run a bit, Mike Brown would still be someone to consider. The ultra competitor with an abrasive edge. But he's out of the squad.

I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

Stom wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Regardless of my distaste for Farrell, can we stop wishing for red cards? That’s just tempting fate more than I’d like.

Can we replace a player cited out of the WC?

If so, losing Farrell to a ban in the pool stages would seem our best shot if winning the thing.

I've been crossing my fingers and toes for six or seven years now. So far the gods haven't responded. Maybe they're gonna do a two for one offer at last with Ben Youngs.

TheDasher wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:What is Eddie supposed to do if someone else plays 15 and is good there?

Jones' lack of rotation at 15 is surprising. Obviously Daly is his main man, but he is not an outstanding FB (though he is getting better.) He is though, a top quality wing, as he has shown in the past for England and the Lions. I think Watson could do the job at 15, but if he is the understudy, then Jones should be giving him game time in this slot. I would not be concerned with his less than stellar performances at 15 in the past since I think he has improved all aspects of his play in the back three since.
Still think the most potent back three for England could be Watson (FB) May/Daly (wings) - I doubt there would be a faster trio in world rugby.
All of that said, if Jones is looking for a tough nut, safety-first FB who can defend and still run a bit, Mike Brown would still be someone to consider. The ultra competitor with an abrasive edge. But he's out of the squad.

I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

And he was playing by far his best rugny towards the end of the season. I don't think anyone would've complained at him being included in the squad at the expense of say, oh I don't know, McConahie?

p/d wrote:Just hope Singleton gets a rest.

I'd have him on the bench ahead of LCD.

TheDasher wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:What is Eddie supposed to do if someone else plays 15 and is good there?

Jones' lack of rotation at 15 is surprising. Obviously Daly is his main man, but he is not an outstanding FB (though he is getting better.) He is though, a top quality wing, as he has shown in the past for England and the Lions. I think Watson could do the job at 15, but if he is the understudy, then Jones should be giving him game time in this slot. I would not be concerned with his less than stellar performances at 15 in the past since I think he has improved all aspects of his play in the back three since.
Still think the most potent back three for England could be Watson (FB) May/Daly (wings) - I doubt there would be a faster trio in world rugby.
All of that said, if Jones is looking for a tough nut, safety-first FB who can defend and still run a bit, Mike Brown would still be someone to consider. The ultra competitor with an abrasive edge. But he's out of the squad.

I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

No he isn't, he's an excellent defender and is missing more than a reasonable chunk of what you'd want a 15 to be able to do. One can of course make a similar charge about Daly, albeit more on defence than attack, and then we've the unproven quality of Watson. None of them are offering a complete and known quantity at test level.

Jones’s reasons for playing Billy:
“To get Billy fit we have to play him. If there were ten bacon rolls he’d eat ten, so we’ve got to get him to play.”

Ahh the bacon argument. Worked out well for the other Ed back in 2015. He has a nice podcast now.

If Billy doesn't get injured, I'll be really happy he's played all the warm ups

(Especially as he might be rested for one or both the opening RWC games)

I'm just not happy with the risk of injury!

Mellsblue wrote:Jones’s reasons for playing Billy:
“To get Billy fit we have to play him. If there were ten bacon rolls he’d eat ten, so we’ve got to get him to play.”

Billy is so much more like Deano than Dallagio

jngf wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Jones’s reasons for playing Billy:
“To get Billy fit we have to play him. If there were ten bacon rolls he’d eat ten, so we’ve got to get him to play.”

Billy is so much more like Deano than Dallagio

Ah! Deano and the good ol’ days. He was indestructible- can anyone remember him getting injured?!

Digby wrote:

TheDasher wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Jones' lack of rotation at 15 is surprising. Obviously Daly is his main man, but he is not an outstanding FB (though he is getting better.) He is though, a top quality wing, as he has shown in the past for England and the Lions. I think Watson could do the job at 15, but if he is the understudy, then Jones should be giving him game time in this slot. I would not be concerned with his less than stellar performances at 15 in the past since I think he has improved all aspects of his play in the back three since.
Still think the most potent back three for England could be Watson (FB) May/Daly (wings) - I doubt there would be a faster trio in world rugby.
All of that said, if Jones is looking for a tough nut, safety-first FB who can defend and still run a bit, Mike Brown would still be someone to consider. The ultra competitor with an abrasive edge. But he's out of the squad.

I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

No he isn't, he's an excellent defender and is missing more than a reasonable chunk of what you'd want a 15 to be able to do. One can of course make a similar charge about Daly, albeit more on defence than attack, and then we've the unproven quality of Watson. None of them are offering a complete and known quantity at test level.

I’d still have Daly, May, Watson, Cokanisiga and myself as the options in the squad. It just makes a lot more sense and covers more bases.

francoisfou wrote:

jngf wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Jones’s reasons for playing Billy:
“To get Billy fit we have to play him. If there were ten bacon rolls he’d eat ten, so we’ve got to get him to play.”

Billy is so much more like Deano than Dallagio

Ah! Deano and the good ol’ days. He was indestructible- can anyone remember him getting injured?!

I believe the sole occasion he had his England socks pulled up with stays was on account of him pulling a hamstring ( and a wag in the commentary box joked that he was surprised Deano knew where to locate a hamstring

- Good old Corinthian amateur test rugby! - anybody remember the photo from early 70’s of French flanker Saisset finishing a fag whilst running onto the test match field or more recently the behind the scenes changing room video of Carling’s team sharing some post match ciggies ( which to my knowledge is still available for viewing at Twickenham rugby museum )

Digby wrote:

TheDasher wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Jones' lack of rotation at 15 is surprising. Obviously Daly is his main man, but he is not an outstanding FB (though he is getting better.) He is though, a top quality wing, as he has shown in the past for England and the Lions. I think Watson could do the job at 15, but if he is the understudy, then Jones should be giving him game time in this slot. I would not be concerned with his less than stellar performances at 15 in the past since I think he has improved all aspects of his play in the back three since.
Still think the most potent back three for England could be Watson (FB) May/Daly (wings) - I doubt there would be a faster trio in world rugby.
All of that said, if Jones is looking for a tough nut, safety-first FB who can defend and still run a bit, Mike Brown would still be someone to consider. The ultra competitor with an abrasive edge. But he's out of the squad.

I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

No he isn't, he's an excellent defender and is missing more than a reasonable chunk of what you'd want a 15 to be able to do. One can of course make a similar charge about Daly, albeit more on defence than attack, and then we've the unproven quality of Watson. None of them are offering a complete and known quantity at test level.

He's a good defender, he's good under the high ball, he's got a good left peg on him/can kick effectively for distance, despite his lack of speed he's a strong runner and makes ground. He's got terrible distribution granted but I think it's fair to say he's an excellent full back, not world class, but a bloody good full back.

Daly isn't a better full back and it remains to be seen if Watson is. At this moment, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Brown is our best full back.

TheDasher wrote:

Digby wrote:

TheDasher wrote:
I think you're right, Brown still takes some beating as a full back option to be honest. He hasn't been fashionable with Daly, Watson etc as popular options on here/amongst fans generally but Brown is, love him or hate him, an excellent FB.

No he isn't, he's an excellent defender and is missing more than a reasonable chunk of what you'd want a 15 to be able to do. One can of course make a similar charge about Daly, albeit more on defence than attack, and then we've the unproven quality of Watson. None of them are offering a complete and known quantity at test level.

He's a good defender, he's good under the high ball, he's got a good left peg on him/can kick effectively for distance, despite his lack of speed he's a strong runner and makes ground. He's got terrible distribution granted but I think it's fair to say he's an excellent full back, not world class, but a bloody good full back.

Daly isn't a better full back and it remains to be seen if Watson is. At this moment, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Brown is our best full back.

Strong runner, or just covered in more vaseline that the entire porn industry combined? And I will confess I always thought Brown more bang average than excellent, he's had the odd decent game, and some outstanding moments in games, but I'm just not that impressed, and I think what makes it worse is the teams he's played in and this team now is a bad balance for the positives he does have

Daly certainly has the skills to offer a decent distribution option from 15 but I’m yet to really see much of it. Watson is even worse than I am.

For a few years, around 2013-2016, Brown was all the good things described above.

His last 18 months in an England shirt were not very good, and that includes erratic defence and high ball work. There’s a reason very few were disappointed when he was dropped.

For me, despite having some obvious ‘work ons’, we are a better team with Daly at 15 than we would be with the most recent version of Brown.

Daly looks every bit a winger playing out of position.

Timbo wrote:For a few years, around 2013-2016, Brown was all the good things described above.

His last 18 months in an England shirt were not very good, and that includes erratic defence and high ball work. There’s a reason very few were disappointed when he was dropped.

For me, despite having some obvious ‘work ons’, we are a better team with Daly at 15 than we would be with the most recent version of Brown.

I'd agree in as much as I think the problem we have is that we want Daly in the team... he's such a talent and we're hoping he'll become a better full back. We'd rather leave Brown out than Cokanasiga or Watson (one of whom would have to be left out if Daly was on the wing, assuming May is an auto selection). All of that said, at this moment, looking at their all round games, Brown is a better FB than Daly, I'd say, but nowhere near as good a rugby player generally.

The snag remains that Daly is wasted at FB, where he is barely adequate. On the wing he is world class. Watson is not as good a winger as Daly but a better FB. With the 31 named, I'd rather have Nowell than Daly at FB.

Bar concerns Farrell is even less a threat running from 12 than he is at 10 my next concern with the backs is who has much onfield chat?

The 10 needs information being fed to him from his centres and wingers, and it's not obvious these players will be brilliant at, bar in fairness Farrell who'd probably be as hard to shut up as his father was. But from 12 Farrell isn't going to have a dramatically different take to Ford, albeit he'll have a little more time and doesn't need the same focus on the ruck, does anyone know if Tuilagi, May and Cokanasiga give good information back in their club sides?

I'm not living in the hope that all players outside the 10 will be as useful as the likes of Catt, Greenwood and Healy, but 3 players who I fear might go mute isn't the best assistance, we want them both spotting options that would alter the team patterns and communicating the same

I think they just shout ‘kick it!!’

Possibly so, but ideally you've identified space to kick into, or a particular player to kick to having confirmed your chase options. And if you can't get your running options going, not easy with a statue at 12, it's harder to kick anyway

I can imagine May being extremely chatty. I just can't imagine the 10 being that interested in the latest adventures of his cranial chicken, the goings on in the crowd, or whatever treasures he's just found up his nostrils.

Digby wrote:Possibly so, but ideally you've identified space to kick into, or a particular player to kick to having confirmed your chase options. And if you can't get your running options going, not easy with a statue at 12, it's harder to kick anyway

All reasons why Goode is so highly rated outside the England camp.