Spiffy wrote:
Can't see at all why Youngs is so highly rated by some, especially after a poor England showing in the 6N. I'd have at least the following SH's ahead of him :
Davies/Webb/Williams - Wales
Murray/Cooney - Ireland
Price - Scotland
Care - England
Based just on this 6N, that's nonsense. Youngs has many, many flaws and is definitely not rated on the EMB as of a general rule, but he was excellent in the 6N and a rare shining light.
Trust me, it pains me to say that, so I'm definitely not saying that out of an abiding love for him!
Puja
Where would you rank him in that list of seven SHs I posted then?
Based just on the 2021 6N, there was a decent argument to be made that he was the top of that list.
Puja wrote:
Based just on the 2021 6N, there was a decent argument to be made that he was the top of that list.
Puja
I think on reflection that was Youngs best 6N but his basic skills and playing on the hoof are way behind all the other scrum halfs.
For me Murray and Price are the 2 prob most assured of their place and then after that its question mark who gets that third spot ?
To be honest no scrum half will feel comfortable
I think you’re wrong on that. Youngs has talent, which is another reason we’re all so irritated by him when he has one of his rabbit in headlights moments.
But on current form he’s the best we all have to offer, no just because his defense is above all of them except Murray.
Stom wrote:
But on current form he’s the best we all have to offer, no just because his defense is above all of them except Murray.
I cant agree with you, i think he has held England back, what he does do is operate effectively behind a solid pack but who doesnt ?
But when he tries to play off the cuff his skills tend to disapear and he makes some interesting calls
Yeah, you’ve got him backwards. When he plays off the cuff, he’s mustard. It’s when he has to stick to a very very rigid plan AND think for himself that the problems happen.
Stom wrote:
Yeah, you’ve got him backwards. When he plays off the cuff, he’s mustard. It’s when he has to stick to a very very rigid plan AND think for himself that the problems happen.
I tend not to watch Leciester and only watch him in 6N
I always think its funny how two people who have spent years watching rugby can have totally different opinions
I guess thats what makes rugby awesome, and we all focus on different things
I’ve been reading a lot that Gatland loves Sam Simmonds and is seriously considering selecting him for the Lions but thought it was probably journos doing some dodgy maths:
there must be a lions tours bolter + player that commentators are most regularly saying should play for their country but aren’t = 6/7/8.
However, Warburton has now said “.... I think Sam Dimmonds will go....”. Given how close Warburton is to Gatland......
Taking Simmonds would essentially be saying 6N performances aren't all that important, that it's a sufficiently low level there are other and better things to consider
Think it all depends how much Gatland wants to piss Eddie off.
To be honest, as much as I think Simmonds should be part of the England setup (preferably instead of/in competition with Ben Earl as an impact sub), I can't see SA giving someone like him much joy...
Really I hope it doesn't happen for that reason. He could, as with England, do a great job of the bench, but it would seem pretty unfair on whoever wouldn't be going because of him. I'd say Watson, Curry, Beirne and Falatau are nailed on. But then you have Navidi and Tipuric who had a great 6N, and Underhill who was sorely missed and surely has money in the bank. Then you've got Billy who... well.
Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:Really I hope it doesn't happen for that reason. He could, as with England, do a great job of the bench, but it would seem pretty unfair on whoever wouldn't be going because of him. I'd say Watson, Curry, Beirne and Falatau are nailed on. But then you have Navidi and Tipuric who had a great 6N, and Underhill who was sorely missed and surely has money in the bank. Then you've got Billy who... well.
Yeah, he’s got to be a player Gatland loves. A better version of Lydiate. Flanker is probably the most hotly contested position(s).
Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:Really I hope it doesn't happen for that reason. He could, as with England, do a great job of the bench, but it would seem pretty unfair on whoever wouldn't be going because of him. I'd say Watson, Curry, Beirne and Falatau are nailed on. But then you have Navidi and Tipuric who had a great 6N, and Underhill who was sorely missed and surely has money in the bank. Then you've got Billy who... well.
Billy shouldn’t even tour with England this summer let alone the Lions imo. Watson at 7 (Though I wouldn’t rule out Sam Simmonds winning this shirt at this level) and Falatau at 8 deserve test slots based on performance in 6 Nations - biggest uncertainty is who gets 6 shirt?
Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:Really I hope it doesn't happen for that reason. He could, as with England, do a great job of the bench, but it would seem pretty unfair on whoever wouldn't be going because of him. I'd say Watson, Curry, Beirne and Falatau are nailed on. But then you have Navidi and Tipuric who had a great 6N, and Underhill who was sorely missed and surely has money in the bank. Then you've got Billy who... well.
Billy shouldn’t even tour with England this summer let alone the Lions imo. Watson at 7 (Though I wouldn’t rule out Sam Simmonds winning this shirt at this level) and Falatau at 8 deserve test slots based on performance in 6 Nations - biggest uncertainty is who gets 6 shirt?
Curry seems a popular choice at 6, to accomodate Watson at 7. Curry is a great flanker on either side, but I'd go for Beirne, the turnover king, a good lineout option, a footballing forward, but with some grunt too, big and smart. Tipuric must be in with a shout too but a flanker pairing of Watson/Tipuric may be a tad on the small side for the Boks.
I don't really buy the size argument with Watson. He is small, no doubt, but he doesn't seem to be dominated like other small forwards. I think it's the way he carries, he just seems to wriggle and ping pong his way forward. In the tackle and breakdown too, he just seems to find a way.
I'd have Beirne starting because he was awesome in the 6N, and just seemed to do everything well + he's a genuine lineout option. Curry is a brilliant bench option to come on and tear away for the last 20 + covers the whole back row.
As much as I love Tipuric as a player, I think SA will just munch him, and there's no chance Gatland plays the gameplan that would suit him...
Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:
As much as I love Tipuric as a player, I think SA will just munch him, and there's no chance Gatland plays the gameplan that would suit him...
I did my lions 36 today, well 33 (really dont know about 3) and Tipuric never made it, i was sure he would be there but I really dont think Gatland will not take Watson and Curry covers all 3 back row spots
