RugbyRebels

Soapy wrote:Reflecting on Townsend's selection for tonight's game keeps raising questions for me on his strategic thinking and abilities to manage his resources.

I can't see the logic in having Steele in the squad and then starting Price and having Horne on the bench. Can Steele play international level? We don't know. Will we find our tonight? No. If Price or Horne is crocked and out of the Wales game has Steele demonstrated he could cover? No.

Does Horne need to show he can start big games? Yes. Is this a chance to do that? Yes. Has Townsend had a look at that? No.

So if Price gets injured out of the Wales game we're going to have a starting scrumhalf that has limited experience of starting and a back-up with no international experience. Or SHC gets a nod and Steele is thanked for holding the tackle bags.

Similar story for whether Huw Jones can do a job at 15. I'd have given him a start but going 6/2 (why?) on the bench has scuppered that. If your picking on form, Jones is ahead of Kinghorn. Kinghorn is an ok wing but a poor fullback whose poor positional skills are even more exposed. His attacking game has been below average (admittedly outside the Edinburgh midfield ...) for the last 12 months. Looking at backups to Hogg should be a priority regardless (and especially now Maitland has been caught out on the razzle with Robshaw at the Fez Boys ...) but Townsend has passed that up. You might argue that VDM will benefit from having a familiar face at FB but if you are having to hand hold one of our outside backs against Georgia it doesn't suggest a positive mindset (and is contrary to be willing to go with Hastings covering midfield). VDW would surely benefit more from another in-form, positionally aware player in the back 3?

Without a doubt, Ritchie and Watson are our first choice 6 and 7 when fit. Ritchie needs the game time. Watson doesn't. Pick Cowan to play tonight cause he's not going to play next week unless Hamish is injured. Which he might be tonight. And we then are looking at starting Cowan with no international games in 4 years or a makeshift 7. If Thomson is behind Fagerson, Haining and Du Preez, why bother picking him in the squad?

Townsend's thinking is so hard to fathom that there is maybe a genius masterplan at work. He has got much to prove and I'm hoping this series will be the start of him demonstrating the skills of an international-level coach. For the good of Scottish rugby I hope he does that. I'm currently in hopes high/expectations low mode.

All that said, I want it all to go brilliantly tonight and a win against Wales next week would make me ecstatic.

Big D wrote:
Why do Scotland need Jones to do a job at 15? Hogg, Maitland and Kinghorn all have extensive experience there. We shouldn't let the Glasgow recruitment policies dictate national selection. Jones has yet to be tested in any meaningful club game there and Kinghorn as far as I can remember has never let Townsend down when selected. Kinghorn, Graham and VdM are a well established combination, nothing to do with hand holding, until Sunday that is the best back 3 combo we have in the squad.

If Watson goes down then Ritchie slides to 7, the same as he has done for club and country when required and Haining or Skinner can play 6.

You seem to be panicking a lot about injuries that may or may not happen. The guys haven't played that much rugby in the last few months so they need games.

Mikey Brown wrote:His kick off at the beginning was absolutely incredible. That would be such a weapon if he could do that consistently

septic 9 wrote:

Big D wrote:
Why do Scotland need Jones to do a job at 15? Hogg, Maitland and Kinghorn all have extensive experience there. We shouldn't let the Glasgow recruitment policies dictate national selection. Jones has yet to be tested in any meaningful club game there and Kinghorn as far as I can remember has never let Townsend down when selected. Kinghorn, Graham and VdM are a well established combination, nothing to do with hand holding, until Sunday that is the best back 3 combo we have in the squad.

If Watson goes down then Ritchie slides to 7, the same as he has done for club and country when required and Haining or Skinner can play 6.

You seem to be panicking a lot about injuries that may or may not happen. The guys haven't played that much rugby in the last few months so they need games.

only bit of that I would question is Kinghorn. His form has been awful since we started playing rugby again, last night was no different, lots of poor decision making and execution. when everyone is fit he will at best get a bench spot now, due to being able to cover 15,11 and 14. Jones is on good form and covers 15, 12 and 13. A different set of flexible options but a set.
Maitland has quite possibly ruled himself out for a bit, at his age I doubt he is going to the next RWC.

Kinghorn will likely get the nod again next week (bench). But if he gets on and plays in a similar vein, and Jones does well enough for Glasgow tonight, Toonie needs to look at trying a different set and sending Kinghorn a clear message that he looks too cosy (he's been the same at edinburgh)

Big D wrote: I don't think it is him being "cosy", he has looked tentative and at times indecisive. That doesn't come from players resting on their laurels. There has been little to no suggestion of Kinghorn thinking he has made it or not trying to get better.

That being said, clearly it doesn't or should prevent him being dropped.

Jones has yet to play a meaningful big game at 15, he is also our best 13 IMO. Grigg and Harris haven't been terrible for Scotland but don't carry his threat. I'd rather see him start there than sit on the bench waiting for Hogg to get injured because that is the only way he is coming off or not starting these games.

Big D wrote:

septic 9 wrote:

Big D wrote:
Why do Scotland need Jones to do a job at 15? Hogg, Maitland and Kinghorn all have extensive experience there. We shouldn't let the Glasgow recruitment policies dictate national selection. Jones has yet to be tested in any meaningful club game there and Kinghorn as far as I can remember has never let Townsend down when selected. Kinghorn, Graham and VdM are a well established combination, nothing to do with hand holding, until Sunday that is the best back 3 combo we have in the squad.

If Watson goes down then Ritchie slides to 7, the same as he has done for club and country when required and Haining or Skinner can play 6.

You seem to be panicking a lot about injuries that may or may not happen. The guys haven't played that much rugby in the last few months so they need games.

only bit of that I would question is Kinghorn. His form has been awful since we started playing rugby again, last night was no different, lots of poor decision making and execution. when everyone is fit he will at best get a bench spot now, due to being able to cover 15,11 and 14. Jones is on good form and covers 15, 12 and 13. A different set of flexible options but a set.
Maitland has quite possibly ruled himself out for a bit, at his age I doubt he is going to the next RWC.

Kinghorn will likely get the nod again next week (bench). But if he gets on and plays in a similar vein, and Jones does well enough for Glasgow tonight, Toonie needs to look at trying a different set and sending Kinghorn a clear message that he looks too cosy (he's been the same at edinburgh)

I don't think it is him being "cosy", he has looked tentative and at times indecisive. That doesn't come from players resting on their laurels. There has been little to no suggestion of Kinghorn thinking he has made it or not trying to get better.

That being said, clearly it doesn't or should prevent him being dropped.

Jones has yet to play a meaningful big game at 15, he is also our best 13 IMO. Grigg and Harris haven't been terrible for Scotland but don't carry his threat. I'd rather see him start there than sit on the bench waiting for Hogg to get injured because that is the only way he is coming off or not starting these games.

septic 9 wrote:

Big D wrote: I don't think it is him being "cosy", he has looked tentative and at times indecisive. That doesn't come from players resting on their laurels. There has been little to no suggestion of Kinghorn thinking he has made it or not trying to get better.

That being said, clearly it doesn't or should prevent him being dropped.

Jones has yet to play a meaningful big game at 15, he is also our best 13 IMO. Grigg and Harris haven't been terrible for Scotland but don't carry his threat. I'd rather see him start there than sit on the bench waiting for Hogg to get injured because that is the only way he is coming off or not starting these games.

Kinghorn has looked cosy for edinburgh. He knows he has no realistic challenge for his spot. Some players need to be pushed for their place, My impression anyway

Jones is our best 13 in attack. There are good reasons he ended up 3d choice 13 at Glasgow for a while, none of them to do with attack. I watched him every game, really weak in defence, tackling and positionally (which TBF might have been to do with Rennie's idea of defence). If he has that sorted, fine, but it looks to me that his best, maybe only chance to do that is going to be moving there as a sub/positional switch during a game (Scotland or Glasgow game). He won't be waiting for Hogg to be injured any more than Kinghorn would be, both cover more than one position

francoisfou wrote:I firmly believe that you've got your best chance in years of turning the Welsh over next Saturday at Parc y Scarlets.
On last night's evidence, the Welsh defence is leaky and Dupont and Ntamack expoited the gaps.
How strong is your front row? Can they get the better of the Welsh?

francoisfou wrote:I firmly believe that you've got your best chance in years of turning the Welsh over next Saturday at Parc y Scarlets.
On last night's evidence, the Welsh defence is leaky and Dupont and Ntamack expoited the gaps.
How strong is your front row? Can they get the better of the Welsh?

Cameo wrote:Just watched that Wales France game. Wales will be better for that and still have lots of turnover threats in defence. Clean out work will have to be top notch.

Other main takeaway was that France have loads of top players who would get crucified on here if they were Scottish. People would be calling for Ntamack and DuPont's heads if they made some of the mistakes for Scotland that they do for France. Very good players but a reminder that you have to take the rough with the smooth with attacking players sometimes.

Only thing I'll say on the 13 debate is that, with his talent, something has gone seriously wrong with the development of Jones for us to end up with Harris ahead of him. Harris is okay but Jones was/is a real game changer. I have liked him at 15 but realistically we have to play him at 13 for Glasgow and solve any defensive issues.

ARM wrote:Another voice here a bit concerned about Kinghorn’s performance. The final try shouldn’t put gloss on the fact that he continues to make bafflingly poor decisions in the red zone - often misses the final pass either by not seeing it or through poor execution. He’s got the raw materials but the decision making is not there. Fortunately we have Hogg and now DvDM that mean this is less of an immediate problem.

I’m also more than a little confused about Maitland.

1) Why was he allowed on the Ba-Bas jolly in the first place? If he was going to be part of the Scotland squad in the next few games then would he not have been better off training with the Scotland team and in the anti-infection bubble than mixing with players from multiple clubs/nations?

2) As for the decision to go out on the lash given his responsibility to the BaBas and also Scotland - well what can you say? I can’t see him featuring for a few games.

switchskier wrote:I can see the argument for Jones over Kinghorn on the bench as 13/15 cover, but would be a little worried about pitching him into an international against Dan Biggar after two starts at the position. Give him a little time to get comfortable and give him a fighting chance if making it work.

Let's also remember that Blair Kinghorn is only 23. High went through a phase where there was some tape on him and the things that came easy because of his physical gifts weren't coming off anymore, making him a bit more tentative and uncertain. Sometimes young players just need to play through it.

septic 9 wrote: Kinghorn can play through it for Edinburgh. Scotland team is not there to give game time for Pro team out of form players.

That was Jones 5th consecutive start at 15. Much to everyone's surprise, he's barely put a foot wrong. No obvious defensive issues, good under the high ball, cutting great attacking lines and the big surprise a decent kicking game with a pretty big boot

Not all against the very best opposition, including twice against Edinburgh when VDW hit a few high to test him. He's making a strong case.

Back to Kinghorn, if Cockerill had any sense he's be telling Kinghorn his place at Edinburgh is now under threat from Jack Blain. Competition for places seems to work at other clubs. Whereas at Edinburgh, I'll leave it there

septic 9 wrote: Jones had loads of chances for Glasgow and Scotland before he was dropped for both.

Cameo wrote: Soapy - not sure I agree re Hastings. He goes through phases a little but I think he is just a different player than Sheedy or Simmonds. They have talent all around them and dominant packs which suits their styles as organisers (who can also do more). There is more of an onus on Hastings to create himself and he often does. It also leads him down blind alleys.

Mikey Brown wrote:The problem is there's so many things he does well too, it's like he isn't even fazed by international rugby and is already a bit too cocky. It's like he avoids any of the maverick talk/criticism because everyone's too busy levelling that at Russell.

His tackling is a big concern though. He has a good instinct of keeping himself on his feet and organising the line, not buried in rucks, but he is often either too passive because of it or goes in high and reckless. Sometimes he'll strip the ball, often he'll give away a penalty.

The problem with Weir is if we can provide that same vigour in attack if he has to come on after 1 minute.