Australia Tour Squad

[Mellsblue]

I’m not sure Randall is the answer, in fact I doubt he is, but it seems a bit early to write him off. Is he even in double figures for caps? Has he yet to play in a well functioning England side?

[Banquo]

Interesting. I always liked Underhill and not just for his crazy tackling, though that was nice. I remember that try against NZ that never was. He seemed good to me. We seem to have a lot of potential flankers. No 8 … presumably Billy must come back into the mix when he’s fit.

Billy is back in the squad so I’m assuming you missed the announcement.

Underhill’s defence is his point of difference, but the other aspects of his game are decent too. He cuts some decent lines and is a more capable link player than he’s given credit for.

Slightly off topic, but amidst Sunday’s horror show, Curry had some nice moments where little pop passes or offloads allowed us to keep more continuity in attack. I’d like to see him doing more of that than taking contact all the time.

Decent possibly, but intl class?

[Banquo]

I've not watched a lot of Premier rugby this year, but there seemed to be a some chat about Mitchell's fitness in the lead up to the Saints v Tigers semi final. I would of thought if it was potentially a weakness at domestic level, then it's way off where it needs to be for an international level.

I guess then it's deciding if it's more beneficial to tour and see the standard he needs to get at, or if a full pre season would be more beneficial?

Northampton play at a super high tempo. Mitchell isn't the only player of theirs that fades badly, as a side they tend to concede points in the second half of games. The lost the semi final playoff game on that basis as after 55 minutes the game was all about Tigers who ended up easing to victory. Mitchell gets highlighted as he's the heartbeat of the side. I'm not sure a) England will play at the same tempo so it probably won't matter and b) England change their scrum half on 50/55 minutes normally so it's not like at Saints where there isn't another player at Mitchell's level to come on.

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

[Banquo]

As a pithy criticism of Jones's SH development policy, that takes some beating.

Why give Randall such a long run when not properly trying Robson and Spencer, takes a bit of understanding, for example.

Come RWC time, I'd not be surprised if Randall is nowhere to be seen. Mind you, I'd not be shocked if Smith goes the same way, not that I want it.

What makes you say that? Goal kicking aside*, Smith has been one of our few bright spots in the last year or so. Having Farrell at 12 solves the goal kicking problem And the fact that we have no actual 12s. Not sure what removing Smith would achieve?

Smith is there to potentially bring an extra attacking dimension to England. If he can't do that then Eddie may well revert to the superior organisation skills of George Ford. From Eddie's point of view he's got a couple of years to get Smith up to the level we need and working in the structure, if not Ford can come in and take the reigns and deliver as that's what he does.

Smith was great in the AIs. Started the 6N well but his form nose dived over the course of the 6N, his performance Vs France was abysmal. Excuses about there being no 12 isn't really good enough considering the crap sandwich backs selections Ford was given and expected to turn into Michelin Star cuisine. I think Smith will turn it on this summer with Farrell there to oversee the organisational side of things and things will improve, Farrell is on good form currently but as we all know has limitations. The Baabaas game highlighted just how desperate England are for someone to exert a degree of control over the game, it wasn't just Smith as Atkinson didn't help and both scrum halfs turned into woeful performances.

.....Smith, Ford, Farrell....makes no odds when the forwards are playing poorly as happened in the 6N and esp in the Baa-baas game.

[Oakboy]

As a pithy criticism of Jones's SH development policy, that takes some beating.

Why give Randall such a long run when not properly trying Robson and Spencer, takes a bit of understanding, for example.

Come RWC time, I'd not be surprised if Randall is nowhere to be seen. Mind you, I'd not be shocked if Smith goes the same way, not that I want it.

What makes you say that? Goal kicking aside*, Smith has been one of our few bright spots in the last year or so. Having Farrell at 12 solves the goal kicking problem And the fact that we have no actual 12s. Not sure what removing Smith would achieve?

*Really not sure what’s going on here. His kicking has really taken a nose dive this season. Previously it was good, now it’s an outright weakness that has cost Quins on a couple of occasions (missed kicks against Montpellier for example).

Re. Curry - there were 2 or 3 moments that stood out. One of those was in the build up to May’s try. There was another off the back of a failed Barbarians lineout I think where he beat the first man and then passed when I expected him to just take contact. Nothing amazing, but notable because they suggest that the penny might be dropping a bit and he should revert back to more link play (he lost his way a bit on this IMO).

On Smith, I just think that Jones will conclude that we can only compete with the best if the ball is airborne for as long as possible. That may mean Ford/Farrell at 10/12 or Farrell at 10 if Tuilagi is fit and available to play at 12.

Maybe, the Randall/Smith combo will get games on this tour to prove that there is another way but I don't see fast handling as any sort of solution with Farrell at 12 outside them though he will offer game-management nous, let's be fair. Also, Jones may try Care with Smith and Farrell to see if occasional 'flair-bursts' within a predominantly 'kicking' structure can work.

If I was picking the best XV within a squad under Jones, I would pick Farrell at 10. Starting from scratch, I'd not have Farrell in the squad but we are where we are, so to speak.

[Banquo]

with Smith, its pretty vital you establish partnerships inside and outside. So short term experimentation will hamper his development and the team imo.

[Peej]

Interesting. I always liked Underhill and not just for his crazy tackling, though that was nice. I remember that try against NZ that never was. He seemed good to me. We seem to have a lot of potential flankers. No 8 … presumably Billy must come back into the mix when he’s fit.

Billy is back in the squad so I’m assuming you missed the announcement.

Underhill’s defence is his point of difference, but the other aspects of his game are decent too. He cuts some decent lines and is a more capable link player than he’s given credit for.

Slightly off topic, but amidst Sunday’s horror show, Curry had some nice moments where little pop passes or offloads allowed us to keep more continuity in attack. I’d like to see him doing more of that than taking contact all the time.

Decent possibly, but intl class?

That NZ game was 4 years ago now. I don't think he's really kicked on beyond being a very good player and isn't exactly showing great form.

[Banquo]

Billy is back in the squad so I’m assuming you missed the announcement.

Underhill’s defence is his point of difference, but the other aspects of his game are decent too. He cuts some decent lines and is a more capable link player than he’s given credit for.

Slightly off topic, but amidst Sunday’s horror show, Curry had some nice moments where little pop passes or offloads allowed us to keep more continuity in attack. I’d like to see him doing more of that than taking contact all the time.

Decent possibly, but intl class?

That NZ game was 4 years ago now. I don't think he's really kicked on beyond being a very good player and isn't exactly showing great form.

Frankly. he hasn't played a huge amount of rugby since then!

[FKAS]

[/b]

What makes you say that? Goal kicking aside*, Smith has been one of our few bright spots in the last year or so. Having Farrell at 12 solves the goal kicking problem And the fact that we have no actual 12s. Not sure what removing Smith would achieve?

Smith is there to potentially bring an extra attacking dimension to England. If he can't do that then Eddie may well revert to the superior organisation skills of George Ford. From Eddie's point of view he's got a couple of years to get Smith up to the level we need and working in the structure, if not Ford can come in and take the reigns and deliver as that's what he does.

Smith was great in the AIs. Started the 6N well but his form nose dived over the course of the 6N, his performance Vs France was abysmal. Excuses about there being no 12 isn't really good enough considering the crap sandwich backs selections Ford was given and expected to turn into Michelin Star cuisine. I think Smith will turn it on this summer with Farrell there to oversee the organisational side of things and things will improve, Farrell is on good form currently but as we all know has limitations. The Baabaas game highlighted just how desperate England are for someone to exert a degree of control over the game, it wasn't just Smith as Atkinson didn't help and both scrum halfs turned into woeful performances.

.....Smith, Ford, Farrell....makes no odds when the forwards are playing poorly as happened in the 6N and esp in the Baa-baas game.

Hmm, yes and no. Yes in that trying to play without a particularly good platform is not a fun experience. No in that England often play in poor areas and overplay in the middle third. If your forwards aren't having a great game then play for territory and force the opposition to expend their energy trying to get out their own half. England looked quite good on the counter attack in the kicking duel at the weekend, if anything I wish we'd drop Smith back alongside the fullback more regularly as the combination opens up a lot of options in both returning the kick and counter attack particularly if we have Steward and Freeman both in the back three.

[Banquo]

Smith is there to potentially bring an extra attacking dimension to England. If he can't do that then Eddie may well revert to the superior organisation skills of George Ford. From Eddie's point of view he's got a couple of years to get Smith up to the level we need and working in the structure, if not Ford can come in and take the reigns and deliver as that's what he does.

Smith was great in the AIs. Started the 6N well but his form nose dived over the course of the 6N, his performance Vs France was abysmal. Excuses about there being no 12 isn't really good enough considering the crap sandwich backs selections Ford was given and expected to turn into Michelin Star cuisine. I think Smith will turn it on this summer with Farrell there to oversee the organisational side of things and things will improve, Farrell is on good form currently but as we all know has limitations. The Baabaas game highlighted just how desperate England are for someone to exert a degree of control over the game, it wasn't just Smith as Atkinson didn't help and both scrum halfs turned into woeful performances.

.....Smith, Ford, Farrell....makes no odds when the forwards are playing poorly as happened in the 6N and esp in the Baa-baas game.

Hmm, yes and no. Yes in that trying to play without a particularly good platform is not a fun experience. No in that England often play in poor areas and overplay in the middle third. If your forwards aren't having a great game then play for territory and force the opposition to expend their energy trying to get out their own half. England looked quite good on the counter attack in the kicking duel at the weekend, if anything I wish we'd drop Smith back alongside the fullback more regularly as the combination opens up a lot of options in both returning the kick and counter attack particularly if we have Steward and Freeman both in the back three.

Yes and yes in my experience. Even if you play for territory, its no use if your set piece creaks and you get turned over and you can't get on the front foot. 10's can change the plan, but can't mitigate for all of the above. I'd add that its the inconsistency more that being completely poor that does us quite often- we switch off too easily, and intensity and concentration dips- and our decision making up front and often at 9 have been really dire.
I do agree we need to look to counter better generally, and actually I liked what Freeman was doing in that respect.

[FKAS]

I've not watched a lot of Premier rugby this year, but there seemed to be a some chat about Mitchell's fitness in the lead up to the Saints v Tigers semi final. I would of thought if it was potentially a weakness at domestic level, then it's way off where it needs to be for an international level.

I guess then it's deciding if it's more beneficial to tour and see the standard he needs to get at, or if a full pre season would be more beneficial?

Northampton play at a super high tempo. Mitchell isn't the only player of theirs that fades badly, as a side they tend to concede points in the second half of games. The lost the semi final playoff game on that basis as after 55 minutes the game was all about Tigers who ended up easing to victory. Mitchell gets highlighted as he's the heartbeat of the side. I'm not sure a) England will play at the same tempo so it probably won't matter and b) England change their scrum half on 50/55 minutes normally so it's not like at Saints where there isn't another player at Mitchell's level to come on.

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

Tom James certainly improved as the season went on and Saints increased use of him off the bench towards the end of the season did bring good results, possibly because he could pick up the tempo when it dropped off with Mitchell.

Agree the tempo issue at Saints was a bigger problem during the international periods but it was still there towards the end of the season as well. Falcons looked like they were heading towards an incredible comeback before Robinson got his red card. Saints started that game a million miles an hour and scored tries for fun in the first half but faded notably. Much the same Vs Tigers except they couldn't get over the line and then had nothing to respond when Tigers turned the screw.

[Banquo]

Northampton play at a super high tempo. Mitchell isn't the only player of theirs that fades badly, as a side they tend to concede points in the second half of games. The lost the semi final playoff game on that basis as after 55 minutes the game was all about Tigers who ended up easing to victory. Mitchell gets highlighted as he's the heartbeat of the side. I'm not sure a) England will play at the same tempo so it probably won't matter and b) England change their scrum half on 50/55 minutes normally so it's not like at Saints where there isn't another player at Mitchell's level to come on.

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

Tom James certainly improved as the season went on and Saints increased use of him off the bench towards the end of the season did bring good results, possibly because he could pick up the tempo when it dropped off with Mitchell.

Agree the tempo issue at Saints was a bigger problem during the international periods but it was still there towards the end of the season as well. Falcons looked like they were heading towards an incredible comeback before Robinson got his red card. Saints started that game a million miles an hour and scored tries for fun in the first half but faded notably. Much the same Vs Tigers except they couldn't get over the line and then had nothing to respond when Tigers turned the screw.

I think Tom James was pretty good last season tbh.

[FKAS]

.....Smith, Ford, Farrell....makes no odds when the forwards are playing poorly as happened in the 6N and esp in the Baa-baas game.

Hmm, yes and no. Yes in that trying to play without a particularly good platform is not a fun experience. No in that England often play in poor areas and overplay in the middle third. If your forwards aren't having a great game then play for territory and force the opposition to expend their energy trying to get out their own half. England looked quite good on the counter attack in the kicking duel at the weekend, if anything I wish we'd drop Smith back alongside the fullback more regularly as the combination opens up a lot of options in both returning the kick and counter attack particularly if we have Steward and Freeman both in the back three.

Yes and yes in my experience. Even if you play for territory, its no use if your set piece creaks and you get turned over and you can't get on the front foot. 10's can change the plan, but can't mitigate for all of the above. I'd add that its the inconsistency more that being completely poor that does us quite often- we switch off too easily, and intensity and concentration dips- and our decision making up front and often at 9 have been really dire.
I do agree we need to look to counter better generally, and actually I liked what Freeman was doing in that respect.

Yes agreed. One man can only mitigate, of the rest of the side then don't perform you have little chance. Ask Ford for the two years Tigers finished 11th .

I'm a fan of Freeman, I am hoping Eddie allows him and Steward to combine in the back three as it'll give us a very solid presence at the back with no small counter potential for Smith to play with. Also gives Smith two quality kick chase options as well, in a kicking duel he can hoist high and have Steward chase, if AIs get it back and clear (probably under pressure) Smith can repeat the tactic with Freeman and really turn the screw. Hopefully make a mess of the Australian organisation so we can open up and attack.

[Puja]

I've not watched a lot of Premier rugby this year, but there seemed to be a some chat about Mitchell's fitness in the lead up to the Saints v Tigers semi final. I would of thought if it was potentially a weakness at domestic level, then it's way off where it needs to be for an international level.

I guess then it's deciding if it's more beneficial to tour and see the standard he needs to get at, or if a full pre season would be more beneficial?

Northampton play at a super high tempo. Mitchell isn't the only player of theirs that fades badly, as a side they tend to concede points in the second half of games. The lost the semi final playoff game on that basis as after 55 minutes the game was all about Tigers who ended up easing to victory. Mitchell gets highlighted as he's the heartbeat of the side. I'm not sure a) England will play at the same tempo so it probably won't matter and b) England change their scrum half on 50/55 minutes normally so it's not like at Saints where there isn't another player at Mitchell's level to come on.

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

I'm surprised you haven't seen him hanging - it's been really, really noticeable on occasions, where there's a good 2/3 seconds of the ball being available at the back of a ruck and he's puffing up to get to it. Admittedly, as FKAS said, he's worked very, very hard to get to that point of exhaustion, but it has reached the stage several times where it's severely compromised Northampton.

Puja

[Puja]

Hmm, yes and no. Yes in that trying to play without a particularly good platform is not a fun experience. No in that England often play in poor areas and overplay in the middle third. If your forwards aren't having a great game then play for territory and force the opposition to expend their energy trying to get out their own half. England looked quite good on the counter attack in the kicking duel at the weekend, if anything I wish we'd drop Smith back alongside the fullback more regularly as the combination opens up a lot of options in both returning the kick and counter attack particularly if we have Steward and Freeman both in the back three.

Yes and yes in my experience. Even if you play for territory, its no use if your set piece creaks and you get turned over and you can't get on the front foot. 10's can change the plan, but can't mitigate for all of the above. I'd add that its the inconsistency more that being completely poor that does us quite often- we switch off too easily, and intensity and concentration dips- and our decision making up front and often at 9 have been really dire.
I do agree we need to look to counter better generally, and actually I liked what Freeman was doing in that respect.

Yes agreed. One man can only mitigate, of the rest of the side then don't perform you have little chance. Ask Ford for the two years Tigers finished 11th .

I'm a fan of Freeman, I am hoping Eddie allows him and Steward to combine in the back three as it'll give us a very solid presence at the back with no small counter potential for Smith to play with. Also gives Smith two quality kick chase options as well, in a kicking duel he can hoist high and have Steward chase, if AIs get it back and clear (probably under pressure) Smith can repeat the tactic with Freeman and really turn the screw. Hopefully make a mess of the Australian organisation so we can open up and attack.

What do you see as the organisation of the back three with Freeman and Steward? I suspect Eddie might try and put Steward on the wing, but I'd really rather the other way around. Have May on the other wing and that's a very exciting back three.

Puja

[badback]

Interesting. I always liked Underhill and not just for his crazy tackling, though that was nice. I remember that try against NZ that never was. He seemed good to me. We seem to have a lot of potential flankers. No 8 … presumably Billy must come back into the mix when he’s fit.

Billy is back in the squad so I’m assuming you missed the announcement.

Underhill’s defence is his point of difference, but the other aspects of his game are decent too. He cuts some decent lines and is a more capable link player than he’s given credit for.

Slightly off topic, but amidst Sunday’s horror show, Curry had some nice moments where little pop passes or offloads allowed us to keep more continuity in attack. I’d like to see him doing more of that than taking contact all the time.

Yeah I missed the Billy thing. Seems a good idea at this point.

Agree re Underhill.

I missed that from Curry. But he’s a good player of course.

[Banquo]

Northampton play at a super high tempo. Mitchell isn't the only player of theirs that fades badly, as a side they tend to concede points in the second half of games. The lost the semi final playoff game on that basis as after 55 minutes the game was all about Tigers who ended up easing to victory. Mitchell gets highlighted as he's the heartbeat of the side. I'm not sure a) England will play at the same tempo so it probably won't matter and b) England change their scrum half on 50/55 minutes normally so it's not like at Saints where there isn't another player at Mitchell's level to come on.

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

I'm surprised you haven't seen him hanging - it's been really, really noticeable on occasions, where there's a good 2/3 seconds of the ball being available at the back of a ruck and he's puffing up to get to it. Admittedly, as FKAS said, he's worked very, very hard to get to that point of exhaustion, but it has reached the stage several times where it's severely compromised Northampton.

Puja

Maybe you see it a bit more on TV, but not noticeable in live games nor more compromising than other 9's I've seen- I'm looking at you Aled Davies . Mitchell's stats give a better indication of his worth imo. He's a very good player- tbh, if fitness was a worry, what better way to improve it than take him on tour? But, then again, that's very much not Eddie's way- he (and rightly) sees it as a players job to turn up ready to go.

[Banquo]

Yes and yes in my experience. Even if you play for territory, its no use if your set piece creaks and you get turned over and you can't get on the front foot. 10's can change the plan, but can't mitigate for all of the above. I'd add that its the inconsistency more that being completely poor that does us quite often- we switch off too easily, and intensity and concentration dips- and our decision making up front and often at 9 have been really dire.
I do agree we need to look to counter better generally, and actually I liked what Freeman was doing in that respect.

Yes agreed. One man can only mitigate, of the rest of the side then don't perform you have little chance. Ask Ford for the two years Tigers finished 11th .

I'm a fan of Freeman, I am hoping Eddie allows him and Steward to combine in the back three as it'll give us a very solid presence at the back with no small counter potential for Smith to play with. Also gives Smith two quality kick chase options as well, in a kicking duel he can hoist high and have Steward chase, if AIs get it back and clear (probably under pressure) Smith can repeat the tactic with Freeman and really turn the screw. Hopefully make a mess of the Australian organisation so we can open up and attack.

What do you see as the organisation of the back three with Freeman and Steward? I suspect Eddie might try and put Steward on the wing, but I'd really rather the other way around. Have May on the other wing and that's a very exciting back three.

Puja

We all know that Nowell will be on one wing if fit.

[Peej]

I'm sure Joe C will be starting too.

[Mellsblue]

A back four? SCW really was ahead of his time.

[Puja]

This, tho Tom James is a tad underrated imo, and possibly Mitchell's lack of fitness is being overstated- never really noticed him hanging in live games tbh. Saints tempo 'issue' was really highlighted when their internationals were away, and their depth was then exposed- they lost 3 or 4 games in the last 10 minutes having been relatively comfortably ahead.

I'm surprised you haven't seen him hanging - it's been really, really noticeable on occasions, where there's a good 2/3 seconds of the ball being available at the back of a ruck and he's puffing up to get to it. Admittedly, as FKAS said, he's worked very, very hard to get to that point of exhaustion, but it has reached the stage several times where it's severely compromised Northampton.

Puja

Maybe you see it a bit more on TV, but not noticeable in live games nor more compromising than other 9's I've seen- I'm looking at you Aled Davies . Mitchell's stats give a better indication of his worth imo. He's a very good player- tbh, if fitness was a worry, what better way to improve it than take him on tour? But, then again, that's very much not Eddie's way- he (and rightly) sees it as a players job to turn up ready to go.

And it is much more noticeable because it is Northampton. Saracens have rarely made a break and the switched the play from one wing to another, so if Aled Davies is slow getting there, who cares - it'll just be box-kicked anyway. Whereas I have seen Mitchell's knackeredness kill a promising attack because he's added 2-3 seconds onto three rucks in a row by just struggling to get around the park because he's emptied the tank. It's not hugely fair, cause it's not like England are going to play like that (and, if they were, Mitchell would be the absolute best 9 to make it happen for 40-50 minutes before bringing someone else off the bench).

I kinda agree with Eddie that it's not something which should be solved within camp though. Fitness is a personal thing and I expect Mitchell to spend the summer getting in peak condition after having been told that it's why he's not playing for England.

Puja

[Peej]

IF that is what he's been given as the reason for his omission of course

[Puja]

IF that is what he's been given as the reason for his omission of course

True. Probably been told that he needs to score and assist for more tries before he can be considered.

Puja

[Banquo]

I'm surprised you haven't seen him hanging - it's been really, really noticeable on occasions, where there's a good 2/3 seconds of the ball being available at the back of a ruck and he's puffing up to get to it. Admittedly, as FKAS said, he's worked very, very hard to get to that point of exhaustion, but it has reached the stage several times where it's severely compromised Northampton.

Puja

Maybe you see it a bit more on TV, but not noticeable in live games nor more compromising than other 9's I've seen- I'm looking at you Aled Davies . Mitchell's stats give a better indication of his worth imo. He's a very good player- tbh, if fitness was a worry, what better way to improve it than take him on tour? But, then again, that's very much not Eddie's way- he (and rightly) sees it as a players job to turn up ready to go.

And it is much more noticeable because it is Northampton. Saracens have rarely made a break and the switched the play from one wing to another, so if Aled Davies is slow getting there, who cares - it'll just be box-kicked anyway. Whereas I have seen Mitchell's knackeredness kill a promising attack because he's added 2-3 seconds onto three rucks in a row by just struggling to get around the park because he's emptied the tank. It's not hugely fair, cause it's not like England are going to play like that (and, if they were, Mitchell would be the absolute best 9 to make it happen for 40-50 minutes before bringing someone else off the bench).

I kinda agree with Eddie that it's not something which should be solved within camp though. Fitness is a personal thing and I expect Mitchell to spend the summer getting in peak condition after having been told that it's why he's not playing for England.

Puja

I kinda agree with Eddie too, with the caveat of the massive difference Gatland made to Wales fitness with all the training camps in Poland and cryochambers etc; he also uplifted their skills levels hugely. Albeit both from a low base. I would say I don’t think our overall fitness is very good tbh, so Eddie may need to intervene anyway.

I’m trying to find out what the skinny is on Mitchell and will report back if I do!

[Spiffy]

.....Smith, Ford, Farrell....makes no odds when the forwards are playing poorly as happened in the 6N and esp in the Baa-baas game.

Hmm, yes and no. Yes in that trying to play without a particularly good platform is not a fun experience. No in that England often play in poor areas and overplay in the middle third. If your forwards aren't having a great game then play for territory and force the opposition to expend their energy trying to get out their own half. England looked quite good on the counter attack in the kicking duel at the weekend, if anything I wish we'd drop Smith back alongside the fullback more regularly as the combination opens up a lot of options in both returning the kick and counter attack particularly if we have Steward and Freeman both in the back three.

Yes and yes in my experience. Even if you play for territory, its no use if your set piece creaks and you get turned over and you can't get on the front foot. 10's can change the plan, but can't mitigate for all of the above. I'd add that its the inconsistency more that being completely poor that does us quite often- we switch off too easily, and intensity and concentration dips- and our decision making up front and often at 9 have been really dire.
I do agree we need to look to counter better generally, and actually I liked what Freeman was doing in that respect.

Freeman was pretty good. But a few times did something that many full backs do, but is always totally non productive : Catch the ball deep in your own territory with nobody close and think counter ; instead of taking off at speed, just loll forwards at something above walking pace,looking all around, sizing up the situation and looking as though something amazing is about to happen; get nailed by defenders who have taken advantage of your walkabout before you even break into a trot, and have now gained umpteen metres overall for their team. Can't figure why coaches are not on to this one. You can often see it coming a mile away.