RugbyRebels

Posted: **Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:02 pm**

Timbo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:58 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:24 pm We’d want him to train ahead of the Scotland game? Am I missing something obvious here?
For someone like Itoje, with his quality and experience, they’d be willing to give him to around the middle of test week to be fully fit? 2 to 2 1/2 weeks or so?

I'd agree with you both. Ideally, we want Itoje fit to train asap, but he's important enough and we're so lacking in locks, that we'd still play him as long he's fit by game day.

Puja

Posted: **Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:19 pm**

DT reporting Nowell and May are 2 names to miss out

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:09 am**

Not too gutted about that. A lot of experience but there are far more dangerous looking wings about.

Murley again just doing the right things today. I really hope he is in. Some vital cover tackles and the frequency that he bumps off defenders is insane for someone of his stature.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:11 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:09 am Not too gutted about that. A lot of experience but there are far more dangerous looking wings about.

Murley again just doing the right things today. I really hope he is in. Some vital cover tackles and the frequency that he bumps off defenders is insane for someone of his stature.

He’s like Nowell, but actually athletic.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:36 am**

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:19 pm DT reporting Nowell and May are 2 names to miss out

Seems the right decision looking at both recently. Him with the hyphen at LI is the best winger I've seen this season.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:36 am
p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:19 pm DT reporting Nowell and May are 2 names to miss out

Seems the right decision looking at both recently. Him with the hyphen at LI is the best winger I've seen this season.

The problem is that I keep seeing wingers impressing and thinking they'd be good for England, but I've no clue who the top pair are: OHC, Watson, Radwan, Freeman, Daly, Murley.

My main hopes for the squad today are BCurry being given a shot and someone not Farrell getting captaincy. I'm cautiously optimistic on the first, but I suspect the latter will leave me disappointed.

Long-odds prediction - I have a feeling JVP will be left out. I don't agree with it, but it's a concern that it might happen - the BigWick didn't seem to feel he was ready for starting the big games for Leicester.

Puja

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:56 am**

Leaving out JVP would be a backward step. Fervently hope thats not the case.

I'll be looking for Ted Hill's name.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:12 am**

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:56 amI'll be looking for Ted Hill's name.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:57 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:36 am
p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:19 pm DT reporting Nowell and May are 2 names to miss out

Seems the right decision looking at both recently. Him with the hyphen at LI is the best winger I've seen this season.
The problem is that I keep seeing wingers impressing and thinking they'd be good for England, but I've no clue who the top pair are: OHC, Watson, Radwan, Freeman, Daly, Murley.

My main hopes for the squad today are BCurry being given a shot and someone not Farrell getting captaincy. I'm cautiously optimistic on the first, but I suspect the latter will leave me disappointed.

Long-odds prediction - I have a feeling JVP will be left out. I don't agree with it, but it's a concern that it might happen - the BigWick didn't seem to feel he was ready for starting the big games for Leicester.

Puja

I’m horrendously biased obviously, but are Radwan and Freeman actually performing especially well or just guys with great physical attributes that could be great?

Watson seems to be playing well but didn’t he get injured again? OHC has been lethal as a runner, if a little blinkered as an all round attacker, but I’m not sure if his defensive game has come on or not?

Daly has been class by all accounts. No idea what Borthwick would view his best position as, and interested to see what Evans would make of him.

I share your hopes (and doubts) regarding Curry and Farrell. I think Farrell does still offer a huge amount to this group, but him being an automatic 80-minute player is a huge drag on the team.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:02 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:57 am
Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:36 am

Seems the right decision looking at both recently. Him with the hyphen at LI is the best winger I've seen this season.
The problem is that I keep seeing wingers impressing and thinking they'd be good for England, but I've no clue who the top pair are: OHC, Watson, Radwan, Freeman, Daly, Murley.

My main hopes for the squad today are BCurry being given a shot and someone not Farrell getting captaincy. I'm cautiously optimistic on the first, but I suspect the latter will leave me disappointed.

Long-odds prediction - I have a feeling JVP will be left out. I don't agree with it, but it's a concern that it might happen - the BigWick didn't seem to feel he was ready for starting the big games for Leicester.

Puja
I’m horrendously biased obviously, but are Radwan and Freeman actually performing especially well or just guys with great physical attributes that could be great?

Watson seems to be playing well but didn’t he get injured again? OHC has been lethal as a runner, if a little blinkered as an all round attacker, but I’m not sure if his defensive game has come on or not?

Daly has been class by all accounts. No idea what Borthwick would view his best position as, and interested to see what Evans would make of him.

It would be highly un England I know, but it would be interesting to see us select at least one winger to just be our biggest available attacking threat, and worry less about what that means when the opposition have the ball.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:04 am**

Freeman looked bloody good down under.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:12 am**

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:04 am Freeman looked bloody good down under.

The decision to hook him at half time, as if the shitshow going on before the ball got anywhere near him was his fault, was peak Eddie nonsense.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:44 am**

That wasn’t meant to be a criticism of Freeman. He’d seemed more like a promising youngster than the form pick, at the time of going on the Aus tour, then looked very comfortable at that level. I just wasn’t sure if he’s followed up that up with his domestic form. Very happy to see him in the squad in general.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:46 pm**

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:04 am Freeman looked bloody good down under.

Oo er. And not even from Bedford

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:48 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:57 am
Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:36 am

Seems the right decision looking at both recently. Him with the hyphen at LI is the best winger I've seen this season.
The problem is that I keep seeing wingers impressing and thinking they'd be good for England, but I've no clue who the top pair are: OHC, Watson, Radwan, Freeman, Daly, Murley.

My main hopes for the squad today are BCurry being given a shot and someone not Farrell getting captaincy. I'm cautiously optimistic on the first, but I suspect the latter will leave me disappointed.

Long-odds prediction - I have a feeling JVP will be left out. I don't agree with it, but it's a concern that it might happen - the BigWick didn't seem to feel he was ready for starting the big games for Leicester.

Puja
I’m horrendously biased obviously, but are Radwan and Freeman actually performing especially well or just guys with great physical attributes that could be great?

Watson seems to be playing well but didn’t he get injured again? OHC has been lethal as a runner, if a little blinkered as an all round attacker, but I’m not sure if his defensive game has come on or not?

Daly has been class by all accounts. No idea what Borthwick would view his best position as, and interested to see what Evans would make of him.

I share your hopes (and doubts) regarding Curry and Farrell. I think Farrell does still offer a huge amount to this group, but him being an automatic 80-minute player is a huge drag on the team.

What does Farrell offer to this group out of interest?

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:53 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:46 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:04 am Freeman looked bloody good down under.
Oo er. And not even from Bedford

Imagine how good he would be if he were.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:30 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:48 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:57 am
Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 am

The problem is that I keep seeing wingers impressing and thinking they'd be good for England, but I've no clue who the top pair are: OHC, Watson, Radwan, Freeman, Daly, Murley.

My main hopes for the squad today are BCurry being given a shot and someone not Farrell getting captaincy. I'm cautiously optimistic on the first, but I suspect the latter will leave me disappointed.

Long-odds prediction - I have a feeling JVP will be left out. I don't agree with it, but it's a concern that it might happen - the BigWick didn't seem to feel he was ready for starting the big games for Leicester.

Puja
I’m horrendously biased obviously, but are Radwan and Freeman actually performing especially well or just guys with great physical attributes that could be great?

Watson seems to be playing well but didn’t he get injured again? OHC has been lethal as a runner, if a little blinkered as an all round attacker, but I’m not sure if his defensive game has come on or not?

Daly has been class by all accounts. No idea what Borthwick would view his best position as, and interested to see what Evans would make of him.

I share your hopes (and doubts) regarding Curry and Farrell. I think Farrell does still offer a huge amount to this group, but him being an automatic 80-minute player is a huge drag on the team.
What does Farrell offer to this group out of interest?

Surely this is old ground now? I think there are holes in his game, and exaggerations of the things he is good (and bad) at, but his physicality, general shoutiness and fairly broad (if limited) skillset/versatility has been a big positive at many points. I'd say leadership, but then you get bogged down in inspiration v ref rapport v cool heads etc. etc. some of which he's good at, some of which he is awful at.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:54 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:30 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:48 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:57 am

I’m horrendously biased obviously, but are Radwan and Freeman actually performing especially well or just guys with great physical attributes that could be great?

Watson seems to be playing well but didn’t he get injured again? OHC has been lethal as a runner, if a little blinkered as an all round attacker, but I’m not sure if his defensive game has come on or not?

Daly has been class by all accounts. No idea what Borthwick would view his best position as, and interested to see what Evans would make of him.

I share your hopes (and doubts) regarding Curry and Farrell. I think Farrell does still offer a huge amount to this group, but him being an automatic 80-minute player is a huge drag on the team.
What does Farrell offer to this group out of interest?
Surely this is old ground now? I think there are holes in his game, and exaggerations of the things he is good (and bad) at, but his physicality, general shoutiness and fairly broad (if limited) skillset/versatility has been a big positive at many points. I'd say leadership, but then you get bogged down in inspiration v ref rapport v cool heads etc. etc. some of which he's good at, some of which he is awful at.

Is that a huge amount of extra value? I was just surprised at how much you seemed to value him. We obviously don’t agree, and that’s fine.

Posted: **Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:42 pm**

I mean it’s mostly years of brainwashing and all the second hand opinions of people like Gatland, Jones, POC, AWJ. I’ve just sort of accepted there has to be something to the whole ‘intangibles’ argument.

I think the OTT hype leads to some counter-exaggeration about how bad he is at certain things, but yeah ropey distribution, ropey temperament, dodgy tackle technique, little running threat.

I don’t think we’re miles off in terms of how we view him, but I acknowledge he’s been one of the leading voices in this group for a long time now. That’s all really.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:30 am**

I think if enough people rate someone, and pick him in their team, then it tells you something about he he is viewed.
I'm also quite sure they know about his limitations but consider that what he brings elsewhere compensates for it.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:01 am**

Maybe, Farrell being (apparently) so highly rated by all players and coaches close to him makes his presence in a team important beyond spectators' understanding? Unfortunately, when he was out injured (yes, I cheered too), Smith did not run things as we all hoped. Of course, other factors counted: who was picked at 9 and the head coach's tactics among them.

Another issue, a historical one, is that English rugby seems to have depended on solidity/reliability at 10 rather than flair. Hence Andrew, JW, Grayson ahead of Barnes, Hodgson, Cipriani etc.

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:54 pm**

The big Stevey-B has cancelled all the overseas trips: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/steve-bo ... -schedule/

TheBigWick wrote:"I have changed the Six Nations plans. The plan was due to be overseas a few times in the Six Nations but we are going to be in England.

"We are going to be working. I am not saying anything about previous plans, but I am saying that we need to get on the training field and start building some relationships. We need to start building how we are going to play and build the team we want.

“I keep things pretty simple. I like a tight group of people around the team and making plans for the team that are as simple as possible to give the players the best chance to bring their strengths onto the pitch.

“We are going to come into camp and start training straight away to build this team.”

While I do see the advantage to warm-weather camps and team bonding, I can't say as I'm too upset at Borthers looking at his limited time and deciding the majority of it needs to be on the training pitch.

Puja

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:39 pm**

Bloody marvellous!!

No more pissing about in the surf dressed as an extra off Home & Away.......

Good stuff Stephen

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:52 pm**

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:39 pm Bloody marvellous!!

No more pissing about in the surf dressed as an extra off Home & Away.......

Good stuff Stephen

I hadn’t even considered that Stevie’s reign could mean the end of the in-camp promo videos? He seems incredibly private regarding the off-field stuff.

How will we know that this continues to be a “a great bunch of lads” and “the tightest unit I’ve ever been involved with” if we don’t have Ellis Genge telling us every week?

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:55 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:52 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:39 pm Bloody marvellous!!

No more pissing about in the surf dressed as an extra off Home & Away.......

Good stuff Stephen
I hadn’t even considered that Stevie’s reign could mean the end of the in-camp promo videos? He seems incredibly private regarding the off-field stuff.

How will we know that this continues to be a “a great bunch of lads” and “the tightest unit I’ve ever been involved with” if we don’t have Ellis Genge telling us every week?

Don’t be a sausage. He’ll find a way.

RugbyRebels

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