RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:27 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:24 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:18 pm

Has he got a chance? He looks the type to take to test rugby. Or being named a Finisher and getting splinters in his arse going to remain his only sniff at this stage?
Playing better than Hill and got to offer more than Isiekwe

He did ok in his brief test appearance iirc

Did he get off the bench?

yep v ireland

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:28 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:21 pm What’s Martin’s carrying like and has he any explosiveness?
(A quality that would add value to second row).

Absolutely mullered Jordy Reid (a big powerful 6 if you don't know him) with a carry in the game at the weekend, but I'm not sure how frequent a thing that is. I know that seems to be his approach to tackling for sure.

We don't get one every game like that from him, cause that one was a bit special, but he's normally a go-to man when we want go-forward ball.

Puja

From what I've seen of Martin, he looks a big, powerful and athletic bloke with a bit of dog and a lot of promise. And, he seems to be on an upwards curve and constantly improving his game. With the England team in a bit of disarray, it's a good time for him to get his toe in the door.

Did the squad get trimmed today?

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:21 pm What’s Martin’s carrying like and has he any explosiveness?
(A quality that would add value to second row).

He's mobile for a big lad. His carrying has been a big work on for him and it's coming together. He was a strong carrier at age grade but the step up in physicality initially blunted his effectiveness. His work rate is ridiculous so he tends to make himself available to carry or clear out a lot. Those breaks at starting to come into his game more, as in the one Vs Glaws when he ran through their flanker like he wasn't there and then brushed off both halfbacks, but I'm not sure it would necessarily translate immediately to international level.

His tackling however, I'd back that to make an instant impact.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:49 am

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:21 pm What’s Martin’s carrying like and has he any explosiveness?
(A quality that would add value to second row).

He's mobile for a big lad. His carrying has been a big work on for him and it's coming together. He was a strong carrier at age grade but the step up in physicality initially blunted his effectiveness. His work rate is ridiculous so he tends to make himself available to carry or clear out a lot. Those breaks at starting to come into his game more, as in the one Vs Glaws when he ran through their flanker like he wasn't there and then brushed off both halfbacks, but I'm not sure it would necessarily translate immediately to international level.

His tackling however, I'd back that to make an instant impact.

Yeah, on a day like Saturday, and with Lawes/Underhill perma-crocked, that would be a nice thing to have somewhere in the pack.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:25 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:21 pm What’s Martin’s carrying like and has he any explosiveness?
(A quality that would add value to second row).

FKAS will say he is dynamite

A bad case of ACME?

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:27 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:25 pm

FKAS will say he is dynamite

A bad case of ACME?

I could see his road ahead as a runner.

BTW...whilst I think he's a tad lucky to be in the squad, Cole will likely win his 100th cap on Saturday (so I read on Twitter- should have checked really ). At his best, he was very very good- great in the tight- canny and strong, and also decent at the breakdown with turnovers and a good guard. The game speeded up at the wrong time for him tbh

Times tipping Faz, Manu, Slade.

Obviously midfield was the big issue. Well Slade was. So....

Cole's been a great servant to England. He's an excellent scrummaging prop. 100 caps is some achievement.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:16 pm Times tipping Faz, Manu, Slade.

Obviously midfield was the big issue. Well Slade was. So....

Not a massive running/attacking threat unless Manu can get back to something like his blattering best. And even if he does, what can Slade do outside.
They will probably face Sexton/Aki/Henshaw. Henshaw is pretty good 13, as well as a 12, and he will be gagging for some rugby, so the outstanding Ringrose should not be too badly missed.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:34 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:16 pm Times tipping Faz, Manu, Slade.

Obviously midfield was the big issue. Well Slade was. So....

Not a massive running/attacking threat unless Manu can get back to something like his blattering best. And even if he does, what can Slade do outside.
They will probably face Sexton/Aki/Henshaw. Henshaw is pretty good 13, as well as a 12, and he will be gagging for some rugby, so the outstanding Ringrose should not be too badly missed.

I was joking re midfield being a BIG issue relative to others, but that midfield is a bit sh*t imo- as you say, zero running threat, and frankly slow.

Is McCloskey not available? He's a late bloomer. Aki/Henshaw is a decent midfield as you say, if not terrifying, very competent.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:16 pm Times tipping Faz, Manu, Slade.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:40 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:34 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:16 pm Times tipping Faz, Manu, Slade.

Obviously midfield was the big issue. Well Slade was. So....

Not a massive running/attacking threat unless Manu can get back to something like his blattering best. And even if he does, what can Slade do outside.
They will probably face Sexton/Aki/Henshaw. Henshaw is pretty good 13, as well as a 12, and he will be gagging for some rugby, so the outstanding Ringrose should not be too badly missed.

I was joking re midfield being a BIG issue relative to others, but that midfield is a bit sh*t imo- as you say, zero running threat, and frankly slow.

Is McCloskey not available? He's a late bloomer. Aki/Henshaw is a decent midfield as you say, if not terrifying, very competent.

McCloskey is nursing a small knock but even if he's fit, most Irish pundits are predicting the Aki/Henshaw midfield, an effective pairing that goes way back to their Connacht days. (Both are Lions - not that that means much after the last tour.) McClosky would not let the side down and may be a marginally better defender than Aki. I'd be happy with either.

Faz starts, Smith on bench says Telegraph, with Ford no required.

What a load of bollox.

stepsider wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 pm Faz starts, Smith on bench says Telegraph, with Ford no required.

What a load of bollox.

Ford wouldn't be a surprise he's coming back from quite a serious injury. He needs more game time.

I'd prefer Smith to start but if Farrell does I hope they keep Genge as captain. He plays better with the responsibility and is better at talking to the refs.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 pm

stepsider wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 pm Faz starts, Smith on bench says Telegraph, with Ford no required.

What a load of bollox.

Ford wouldn't be a surprise he's coming back from quite a serious injury. He needs more game time.

I'd prefer Smith to start but if Farrell does I hope they keep Genge as captain. He plays better with the responsibility and is better at talking to the refs.

Has Ford even been good in his brief appearances for Sale? He’s not been kicking either has he?

Shame that Smith got his big chance behind a pack getting utterly minced, but hardly a surprise. At least we’ll (presumably) have 2 centres.

I can’t see Genge being captain, given that Farrell took the captaincy from him when he came off the bench, but it would also be a nice vote of confidence for him to get another crack at it.

Had hoped that Shirley Bassey would have kept the same team, allowing for injuries. Farrell as captain would cost at least five more penalties awarded against us than Genge. Any slight optimism is probably about to evaporate.

stepsider wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:38 pm Had hoped that Shirley Bassey would have kept the same team, allowing for injuries. Farrell as captain would cost at least five more penalties awarded against us than Genge. Any slight optimism is probably about to evaporate.

Careful now
Down with this sort of thing

The Guardian -

England are intending to play Owen Farrell from the start in Saturday’s Six Nations finale against Ireland in Dublin despite suggestions the fly-half may have sustained an ankle injury in training this week. Manu Tuilagi and Henry Slade are also set to be reunited in midfield, while Henry Arundell is pushing hard to make a first start on the wing.

Northampton’s David Ribbans is expected to feature in the second row in place of the injured Ollie Chessum as England look to atone for their record 53-10 defeat to France. Should any 11th-hour doubts resurface over Farrell, it is understood Marcus Smith would be the favourite to retain his place, with the latter’s Harlequins teammate Joe Marchant in line for a bench recall.

An team spokesperson declined to confirm whether or not Farrell was 100% fit but England are clearly desperate for the 31-year-old to be involved.

Ribbans in is good. I’m surprised Slade, being yanked last week, is still demanding a shirt.

If Farrell is out then Malins becomes 10 cover for Smith with Marchant covering wing?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:04 am Ribbans in is good. I’m surprised Slade, being yanked last week, is still demanding a shirt.

If Farrell is out then Malins becomes 10 cover for Smith with Marchant covering wing?

Ford is still in the group so would be on the bench if Smith starts, wouldn't he? I am also surprised that Slade stays at 13 but I suppose you could argue that some brain is required in any centre pairing and decent hands are essential outside Farrell and Tuilagi. I rate Marchant but, unlike many on here, prefer Slade. Having said that, I'd feel worried for Marchant being in real scapegoat territory should he play at 13 in Dublin outside Farrell and Tuilagi. If I was a Marchant fan, I'd say let Slade cop that ordeal, together with the international- career-threatening flak if things go as badly as they might.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:26 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:04 am Ribbans in is good. I’m surprised Slade, being yanked last week, is still demanding a shirt.

If Farrell is out then Malins becomes 10 cover for Smith with Marchant covering wing?

Ford is still in the group so would be on the bench if Smith starts, wouldn't he? I am also surprised that Slade stays at 13 but I suppose you could argue that some brain is required in any centre pairing and decent hands are essential outside Farrell and Tuilagi. I rate Marchant but, unlike many on here, prefer Slade. Having said that, I'd feel worried for Marchant being in real scapegoat territory should he play at 13 in Dublin outside Farrell and Tuilagi. If I was a Marchant fan, I'd say let Slade cop that ordeal, together with the international- career-threatening flak if things go as badly as they might.

I read this as Marchant taking Smith's bench spot if Farrell were to be out, but who knows?

Should any 11th-hour doubts resurface over Farrell, it is understood Marcus Smith would be the favourite to retain his place, with the latter’s Harlequins teammate Joe Marchant in line for a bench recall.

Marchant doesn't have the passing/kicking range that Slade does, but I think he matches him for all round skills, runs better lines in attack and provides some desperately needed pace in what would be an unbelievably slow backline. I think he's generally a much superior defender but I guess if Sinfield's only opinion of him is based on the Scotland game that's probably out the window.

I like the concept of Slade as a second playmaking voice and leader in the backline but I genuinely don't know if that's the reality at the point.

This isn't going to be pretty is it. What is our record loss to ire?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:11 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:26 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:04 am Ribbans in is good. I’m surprised Slade, being yanked last week, is still demanding a shirt.

If Farrell is out then Malins becomes 10 cover for Smith with Marchant covering wing?

Ford is still in the group so would be on the bench if Smith starts, wouldn't he? I am also surprised that Slade stays at 13 but I suppose you could argue that some brain is required in any centre pairing and decent hands are essential outside Farrell and Tuilagi. I rate Marchant but, unlike many on here, prefer Slade. Having said that, I'd feel worried for Marchant being in real scapegoat territory should he play at 13 in Dublin outside Farrell and Tuilagi. If I was a Marchant fan, I'd say let Slade cop that ordeal, together with the international- career-threatening flak if things go as badly as they might.

I read this as Marchant taking Smith's bench spot if Farrell were to be out, but who knows?

Should any 11th-hour doubts resurface over Farrell, it is understood Marcus Smith would be the favourite to retain his place, with the latter’s Harlequins teammate Joe Marchant in line for a bench recall.

Marchant doesn't have the passing/kicking range that Slade does, but I think he matches him for all round skills, runs better lines in attack and provides some desperately needed pace in what would be an unbelievably slow backline. I think he's generally a much superior defender but I guess if Sinfield's only opinion of him is based on the Scotland game that's probably out the window.

I like the concept of Slade as a second playmaking voice and leader in the backline but I genuinely don't know if that's the reality at the point.

I don't disagree with what you say about Marchant apart from the implication that he is faster than Slade. It's not a big point of contention, just a minor observation. Slade is constantly mentioned as 'not very fast' and he may not be. However, I rarely see him outpaced except by mega-speedsters and I've seen him haul in one or two of those on chase-backs where the rest of the backline have disappeared. Don't get me wrong, I think Slade's day has come and gone - maybe before, maybe after the RWC. However, I think being forever outside Farrell and often outside Youngs has tainted his career. Pairing him with Tuilagi outside Farrell is a simple hiding-to-nothing. Slade can spark things but he is no different to other decent 13s in that he can do very little with crap ball. Give him half a dozen decent openings and he will conjure a few tries with the right players outside him. That has not happened for years against top opposition that I can recall. I think he's a good, willing professional with more to offer than England have managed.