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Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:24 pm
by pompey-zebra
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:06 pm
That penalty try was a big turning point. We lost our heads they ran in another try.
That might be one of the biggest concerns, thats 2 weeks now where a lack of composure has made a difference. We can change players, combinations and everything but if we cant keep composure we'll struggle.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:25 pm
by normanski
The game really took off for the Boks with that undeserved penalty try. Worryingly Costelow has the HIA protocols to go through. An injury we could do without. Hopefully, Gatland will have learned a lot more but I sense he’s into the four year cycle rather than any optimism for France.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:26 pm
by Sandydragon
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:24 pm
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:06 pm
That penalty try was a big turning point. We lost our heads they ran in another try.
That might be one of the biggest concerns, thats 2 weeks now where a lack of composure has made a difference. We can change players, combinations and everything but if we cant keep composure we'll struggle.
Totally agree. Last week was worse given the circumstances but we have a real leadership problem there.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:27 pm
by Buggaluggs
So other than being physically dominated from 1-15 and the amateurish naivete of or players being brutally exposed, it went pretty well.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:27 pm
by Sandydragon
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:25 pm
The game really took off for the Boks with that undeserved penalty try. Worryingly Costelow has the HIA protocols to go through. An injury we could do without. Hopefully, Gatland will have learned a lot more but I sense he’s into the four year cycle rather than any optimism for France.
A few of our players have played themselves out of the squad. Some positivity in amongst all that but mostly from a hrs working defensive side.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:28 pm
by Sourdust
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:24 pm
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:06 pm
That penalty try was a big turning point. We lost our heads they ran in another try.
That might be one of the biggest concerns, thats 2 weeks now where a lack of composure has made a difference. We can change players, combinations and everything but if we cant keep composure we'll struggle.
That's a fair point. I'm not sure that better composure would have done much good today, but it wouldn't have hurt either.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:33 pm
by pompey-zebra
Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:28 pm
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:24 pm
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:06 pm
That penalty try was a big turning point. We lost our heads they ran in another try.
That might be one of the biggest concerns, thats 2 weeks now where a lack of composure has made a difference. We can change players, combinations and everything but if we cant keep composure we'll struggle.
That's a fair point. I'm not sure that better composure would have done much good today, but it wouldn't have hurt either.
No, I dont think it would have meant Wales winning today, but the composure to circle the wagons after the pen try/ yellow might have kept things tighter.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:34 pm
by Sourdust
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:25 pm
The game really took off for the Boks with that undeserved penalty try. Worryingly Costelow has the HIA protocols to go through. An injury we could do without. Hopefully, Gatland will have learned a lot more but I sense he’s into the four year cycle rather than any optimism for France.
That depends on how you define "optimism", I guess.
Six months ago, we stood no realistic chance of getting out of our RWC group.
Now it looks like we have a decent shout, and if Gats manages that it will be a solid pass mark in the circumstances.
As to the 4y cycle, I for one couldn't give a toss. I want to win whichever tournament we're currently in.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:33 pm
by Sandydragon
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:33 pm
Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:28 pm
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:24 pm
That might be one of the biggest concerns, thats 2 weeks now where a lack of composure has made a difference. We can change players, combinations and everything but if we cant keep composure we'll struggle.
That's a fair point. I'm not sure that better composure would have done much good today, but it wouldn't have hurt either.
No, I dont think it would have meant Wales winning today, but the composure to circle the wagons after the pen try/ yellow might have kept things tighter.
Yep. We were at sixes and sevens after that and conceded another really quickly. Then we played catch up rugby which played into a very good bokke defence. To be clear, we would have lost easily today regardless, but I do think we gifted the South Africans a lot by some daft game play.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:42 pm
by Sourdust
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:33 pm
Yep. We were at sixes and sevens after that and conceded another really quickly. Then we played catch up rugby which played into a very good bokke defence. To be clear, we would have lost easily today regardless, but I do think we gifted the South Africans a lot by some daft game play.
Similar to last week in some ways.
The defeat: No problem whatsoever. The manner of the defeat: Cause for concern BUT hugely mitigated by the roster.
I can't decide whether it's a good or bad thing that we haven't shown our hand at all in these warm-ups. Conventional wisdom says you should play your test XXIII at some stage - or at least something close to it. As it is we'll be going in fairly cold against Fiji - but also, they will have no solid idea what to expect!
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:11 pm
by pompey-zebra
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:12 pm
Let’s see how Fiji go tonight.
Fiji's most attacking tactic seems to be an overthrown line out.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:10 pm
by MrK
UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:46 pm
Williams isn't international class. He's good when you point him in one direction, but he does nothing else.
Hardy is worse. Slow and obvious. The worst thing a scrum half can be.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:12 pm
by MrK
MrK wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:10 pm
UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:46 pm
Williams isn't international class. He's good when you point him in one direction, but he does nothing else.
Hardy is worse. Slow and obvious. The worst thing a scrum half can be.
Just catching up . You meant Johnny
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:46 pm
by morepork
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:11 pm
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:12 pm
Let’s see how Fiji go tonight.
Fiji's most attacking tactic seems to be an overthrown line out.
and monstering the ruck to win turnover ball. Their scrum is also better than decent. I'd be wary of them if I were you.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:10 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Sourdust wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:34 pm
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:25 pm
The game really took off for the Boks with that undeserved penalty try. Worryingly Costelow has the HIA protocols to go through. An injury we could do without. Hopefully, Gatland will have learned a lot more but I sense he’s into the four year cycle rather than any optimism for France.
That depends on how you define "optimism", I guess.
Six months ago, we stood no realistic chance of getting out of our RWC group.
Now it looks like we have a decent shout, and if Gats manages that it will be a solid pass mark in the circumstances.
As to the 4y cycle, I for one couldn't give a toss. I want to win whichever tournament we're currently in.
That's not true. It's an easy group, we've always had a realistic chance of getting out of it.
Agreed re the 4y cycle. 6N, RWC whatever, I want us to win it. One is not better than the other.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:47 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Player stats:
WALES Tackles Missed Tackles Passes Runs Metres Run Penalties
C EvansFB 3 1 5 4 63 0
T RogersW 5 4 0 1 9 3
M GradyC 2 0 1 2 0 0
J WilliamsC 8 1 6 8 15 0
R DyerW 3 2 1 10 69 1
S CostelowFH 8 2 14 9 24 0
K HardySH 3 1 36 0 0 0
C DomachowskiP 7 1 0 5 3 1
E DeeH 11 0 8 6 1 1
K AssirattiP 5 1 2 0 0 1
B CarterL 5 2 2 3 0 0
W RowlandsL 12 2 6 6 7 1
D LydiateFL 13 3 4 3 3 0
J MorganFL 12 0 7 9 25 1
A WainwrightN8 8 1 1 3 9 0
S ParryR 5 0 0 2 6 0
N SmithR 6 0 2 2 4 1
H ThomasR 4 1 2 4 4 1
T WilliamsR 5 1 0 0 0 0
T BashamR 5 0 2 4 17 1
T WilliamsR 1 2 17 3 16 0
M LlewellynR 1 1 1 2 3 1
L Rees-ZammitR 0 0 1 1 6 0
Lots of tackles missed (but SA also missed 16% of tackles).
Morgan and Dee were the best tacklers - 12 made 0 missed and 11 made 0 missed respectively. Lydiate and Rowlands were busy but missed a few each: 13 and 3, 12 and 2. Rogers was the worst: 5 and 4, Dyer also not great: 3 and 2, although at least Dyer made 69m. Smith and Basham actually did well, considering time on pitch: 6 and 0, 5 and 0.
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=289234
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:09 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Played well: Morgan, Dee (unless the poor scrummaging was his fault), Evans (why did the Ospreys not play this guy?). Costelow, Basham
OK: Rowlands, Lydiate, Wainwright, Smith, Parry, Thomas, T Williams, Llewellyn, LRZ
Poor: starting props, starting centres (one try given away each), Rogers, Hardy
Meh: everyone else
Scrum: just awful
Lineout: really good (if we didn't attack theirs)
Maul: poor
Composure: shite
Defence: shite
Chickens: headless
Yeah, this team was so bad it was hard for anyone, however talented, to look good. Some people have probably played themselves out of a job. Cai Evans has made an audacious bid for the squad. Tompkins now looks like the clear choice for 12 (although of course I will argue that K Williams hasn't had enough of a chance, Osprey that I am).
Oh yeah, and this is a shameful 90s style scoreline. Fucking embarrassing.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:19 am
by Sandydragon
morepork wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:46 pm
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:11 pm
normanski wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:12 pm
Let’s see how Fiji go tonight.
Fiji's most attacking tactic seems to be an overthrown line out.
and monstering the ruck to win turnover ball. Their scrum is also better than decent. I'd be wary of them if I were you.
We’re not just wary of them mate, we’re virtually bricking it at the moment. We can beat them but equally if they get ahead and we start playing sevens then it could be 2007 all over again.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:23 am
by Sandydragon
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:47 am
Player stats:
WALES Tackles Missed Tackles Passes Runs Metres Run Penalties
C EvansFB 3 1 5 4 63 0
T RogersW 5 4 0 1 9 3
M GradyC 2 0 1 2 0 0
J WilliamsC 8 1 6 8 15 0
R DyerW 3 2 1 10 69 1
S CostelowFH 8 2 14 9 24 0
K HardySH 3 1 36 0 0 0
C DomachowskiP 7 1 0 5 3 1
E DeeH 11 0 8 6 1 1
K AssirattiP 5 1 2 0 0 1
B CarterL 5 2 2 3 0 0
W RowlandsL 12 2 6 6 7 1
D LydiateFL 13 3 4 3 3 0
J MorganFL 12 0 7 9 25 1
A WainwrightN8 8 1 1 3 9 0
S ParryR 5 0 0 2 6 0
N SmithR 6 0 2 2 4 1
H ThomasR 4 1 2 4 4 1
T WilliamsR 5 1 0 0 0 0
T BashamR 5 0 2 4 17 1
T WilliamsR 1 2 17 3 16 0
M LlewellynR 1 1 1 2 3 1
L Rees-ZammitR 0 0 1 1 6 0
Lots of tackles missed (but SA also missed 16% of tackles).
Morgan and Dee were the best tacklers - 12 made 0 missed and 11 made 0 missed respectively. Lydiate and Rowlands were busy but missed a few each: 13 and 3, 12 and 2. Rogers was the worst: 5 and 4, Dyer also not great: 3 and 2, although at least Dyer made 69m. Smith and Basham actually did well, considering time on pitch: 6 and 0, 5 and 0.
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=289234
I think after is coming along nicely and I like his positivity. I suspect that his habit of not nailing tackles consistently will mean Adams starting in the big games.
Although Gatland did namecheck Dyer yesterday.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:25 am
by Sandydragon
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:09 am
Played well: Morgan, Dee (unless the poor scrummaging was his fault), Evans (why did the Ospreys not play this guy?). Costelow, Basham
OK: Rowlands, Lydiate, Wainwright, Smith, Parry, Thomas, T Williams, Llewellyn, LRZ
Poor: starting props, starting centres (one try given away each), Rogers, Hardy
Meh: everyone else
Scrum: just awful
Lineout: really good (if we didn't attack theirs)
Maul: poor
Composure: shite
Defence: shite
Chickens: headless
Yeah, this team was so bad it was hard for anyone, however talented, to look good. Some people have probably played themselves out of a job. Cai Evans has made an audacious bid for the squad. Tompkins now looks like the clear choice for 12 (although of course I will argue that K Williams hasn't had enough of a chance, Osprey that I am).
Oh yeah, and this is a shameful 90s style scoreline. Fucking embarrassing.
Dee has to take some responsibility for the scrum. Marx was putting him under huge pressure.
Evans didn’t look out of place. Nothing flashy but given the circumstances that’s not unexpected. Promising.
This RWC is too soon though.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:51 am
by Graigwen
I missed the whole game yesterday as I was in hospital with my dying brother.
Thanks for the comments posted - is it worth me watching the game now?
.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:22 am
by Sandydragon
Graigwen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:51 am
I missed the whole game yesterday as I was in hospital with my dying brother.
Thanks for the comments posted - is it worth me watching the game now?
.
Sounds like you’re having a bad enough weekend. I genuinely wouldn’t bother.
And my best wishes to you and your family at this sad time.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:11 pm
by Graigwen
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:22 am
Graigwen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:51 am
I missed the whole game yesterday as I was in hospital with my dying brother.
Thanks for the comments posted - is it worth me watching the game now?
.
Sounds like you’re having a bad enough weekend. I genuinely wouldn’t bother.
And my best wishes to you and your family at this sad time.
Thanks. I'll do some gardening instead, it is good for the soul.
.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:54 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Graigwen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:51 am
I missed the whole game yesterday as I was in hospital with my dying brother.
Thanks for the comments posted - is it worth me watching the game now?
.
Sorry to hear that.
Watch the athletics instead.
Re: Team for South Africa
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:55 pm
by normanski
Graigwen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:11 pm
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:22 am
Graigwen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:51 am
I missed the whole game yesterday as I was in hospital with my dying brother.
Thanks for the comments posted - is it worth me watching the game now?
.
Sounds like you’re having a bad enough weekend. I genuinely wouldn’t bother.
And my best wishes to you and your family at this sad time.
Thanks. I'll do some gardening instead, it is good for the soul.
.
I hope you and your brother can find peace at this time.