England vs Wales - minute-by-minute

[FKAS]

It is so! suspect Toulon life isn’t so bad.
To be fair to sb he does change his mind about players- see Mitchell.

From what I heard coming out of Tigers, Silly Barnacle is very demanding but also likely to reward those that put the effort in.

My feedback from camps is this but he is also willing to shed preconceptions.

Sounds about right. There's been a few guys for England that have come from nowhere to jump up the pecking order, notably Mitchell.

[pjm1]

Have been lurking for some time, but finally decided to bite the bullet and sign up. It is threads like this that make this board a treasure-trove... thank you Puja!

[Puja]

Have been lurking for some time, but finally decided to bite the bullet and sign up. It is threads like this that make this board a treasure-trove... thank you Puja!

Welcome to the board - glad I could lure you in!

Thanks everybody for the kind words - they are always very much appreciated and they do very much increase the chances of me doing more of these threads by reassuring me that I'm not boring everyone to tears. See you all for next week's exciting installment!

Puja

[16th man]

See you all for next week's exciting installment!

Puja

3 all draw with 20 mins ball in play time incoming.

[Puja]

See you all for next week's exciting installment!

Puja

3 all draw with 20 mins ball in play time incoming.

Hey, it's quicker to write, "Once more, we fail to scrum within the minute," than it is to try and describe minute where there's fluid play and 6-7 phases.

Puja

[pjm1]

See you all for next week's exciting installment!

Puja

3 all draw with 20 mins ball in play time incoming.

Hey, it's quicker to write, "Once more, we fail to scrum within the minute," than it is to try and describe minute where there's fluid play and 6-7 phases.

Puja

Be thankful you're not Irish then Some sublime play this 6N. Not looking forward to that match, other than the quality of rugby that may be offered up (or at least half of it!)

Enjoyed reading your Italy mbm after this one. It actually makes for very insightful / though-provoking content reading it *after* the game against Wales. Puts it more into context in terms of what we're trying to achieve and build towards. I still worry, though, that this Scotland game is slightly out of reach for where we are, right now. If it were at HQ, maybe...

[Slater582]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.

Disappointing to read he finished last weekend.

[Puja]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.

Disappointing to read he finished last weekend.

Yeah, it was said that he was only on a very short term contract before a job in NZ when he signed, but I had half a hope that he might've loved Stoic Backslapping's environment so much that he signed on for a bit more. Hopefully our coaching staff have learned as much about his methods as the players have.

Puja

[p/d]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.

Disappointing to read he finished last weekend.

Ouch! That really is disappointing. Yes, still plenty to work on but his short time working with them was very noticeable.

[pjm1]

Conclusions from watching that:
- We have lost just 5 attacking rucks in 160 minutes of rugby. Strawbridge is worth his weight in gold.

Disappointing to read he finished last weekend.

Ouch! That really is disappointing. Yes, still plenty to work on but his short time working with them was very noticeable.

Maybe there's a lesson in here somewhere. Hire a top level, experienced coach and get top level coaching. Worked with Strawbridge and working (to a degree, but needs time) with F Jones. A corollary of that is hire inexperienced coaches and get them learning on the job, with players getting worse the longer they're in the squad...

[p/d]

There is clearly a strong argument to send the players back to their clubs during the week off

[FKAS]

Disappointing to read he finished last weekend.

Ouch! That really is disappointing. Yes, still plenty to work on but his short time working with them was very noticeable.

Maybe there's a lesson in here somewhere. Hire a top level, experienced coach and get top level coaching. Worked with Strawbridge and working (to a degree, but needs time) with F Jones. A corollary of that is hire inexperienced coaches and get them learning on the job, with players getting worse the longer they're in the squad...

Or the players aren't as good as we think and the Prem as a standard is not as close to International as we'd like.

[pjm1]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

[Stom]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

With structure and a team plan, you can turn many groups of players into an OKish team. But that level is just a smidge higher than Wales are at.

And that's where we are.

Not good enough.

You look at the best teams in world rugby, and they've either had successful appointments time after time, or have a philosophy.

We have neither.

And we've not made a good appointment since...well, since SCW, really. Which is embarrassing. A load of forwards.

[pjm1]

Ultimately, it's on the RFU. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been for the last 20 years. Unfortunately, I don't see how we can have a revolution there - unless we stop going to Twickenham in sufficient numbers.

[Banquo]

Ultimately, it's on the RFU. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been for the last 20 years. Unfortunately, I don't see how we can have a revolution there - unless we stop going to Twickenham in sufficient numbers.

Its also a function of the RFU not having control over the pro game. PRL just don't care about the national side other than as a subsidy. The RFU havent addressed this properly, and they haven't really appointed a very good coach apart from Eddie only works well for three years Jones.

If you were heading up the RFU and wanted to make a difference sustainably.....you wouldn't start from here.

[Banquo]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

With structure and a team plan, you can turn many groups of players into an OKish team. But that level is just a smidge higher than Wales are at.

And that's where we are.

Not good enough.

You look at the best teams in world rugby, and they've either had successful appointments time after time, or have a philosophy.

We have neither.

And we've not made a good appointment since...well, since SCW, really. Which is embarrassing. A load of forwards.

Jones was a good appointment, if they'd have stuck to the original plan to replace after 2019 RWC and him to have mentored a new head coach.

[Banquo]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

[FKAS]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

Nope. Gatland's days were about a decade ago. His time back in NZ was a farce and his results back with Wales pretty poor.

[Danno]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

Wash your mouth out!

[Oakboy]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

I agree.

IMO, Gatland is nothing special but he would have achieved better performances from the team unit in the short term. Of course, the alternative is to have faith in SB's middle or long term development programme. Perhaps there is a grand plan . . . . Now, where have we heard that before?

Round we go in circles again. How good/bad are our players? What is par? Are we really 4th best in the NH - by the skin of our teeth ahead of Wales and Italy?

[Danno]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

Are we really 4th best in the NH - by the skin of our teeth ahead of Wales and Italy?

Yes. Because 1-3 haven't been fucking about for the last 3+ years.

[Banquo]

I think, with the exception of Leinster, that is the case for all teams. And surely it affects Scotland as much as us, given where many of their players play?

Your point is accurate that - across multiple coaches - we see players who excel in their clubs turn into "meh" players for England. So that can't just be on Stepping Backwards... but why does that happen to us so much more than for many other national teams? Take Wales as probably the clearest counterpoint: their players are raw and have shown - in many cases - relatively little when it comes to club form and they're literally last cabs at the rank, but Gatland seems to have made them more than the sum of their parts.

Given the more limited time int'l coaching teams get with players, having experience of what works vs doesn't in terms of getting the right players, with the right game plan in the right frame of mind... must be beneficial.

The sum of the parts is the major issue in the short term. I think Gatland would get much better performances out of our squad, for example.

Nope. Gatland's days were about a decade ago. His time back in NZ was a farce and his results back with Wales pretty poor.

we will have to disagree.

[p/d]

Would this be a good time to bring up Steward at 12

[Danno]

Would this be a good time to bring up Steward at 12

Someone's gonna lamp you soon, boyo