RugbyRebels

twitchy wrote:He is definitely reaching (if not at) the point of no return. That is serious.

What makes you say that?

Well I feel like a twat now. Hadn't really thought of it from that perspective.

skidger wrote:

p/d wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
A lack of rationality in some cases, perhaps? Certainly not impartial opinion anyway. Just imagine how some would deal with Hughes, Solomona and Rhodes in the same XV!

I wept when Hughes got capped. If fate were as cruel as to land us with those 3 then I would probably wail like Skidger did when Robbie quit Take That

I cried today as only just heard about Brian Moore's tweet and realised i missed a Take That special.

Here's a question for a grounded thoughtful chap, Ellie Goulding. Why? I just don't see it.

p/d wrote:

skidger wrote:

p/d wrote: I wept when Hughes got capped. If fate were as cruel as to land us with those 3 then I would probably wail like Skidger did when Robbie quit Take That

I cried today as only just heard about Brian Moore's tweet and realised i missed a Take That special.

Here's a question for a grounded thoughtful chap, Ellie Goulding. Why? I just don't see it.

Are we talking looks wise or her warbling? I listen to Sam FM,6music and Absolute 80s and know about two of her songs. Ask Banquo as i believe he listens to 1FM. My biggest musical question is when will Brother Beyond reclaim their throne.

skidger wrote:

p/d wrote:

skidger wrote:

I cried today as only just heard about Brian Moore's tweet and realised i missed a Take That special.

Here's a question for a grounded thoughtful chap, Ellie Goulding. Why? I just don't see it.

Are we talking looks wise or her warbling? I listen to Sam FM,6music and Absolute 80s and know about two of her songs. Ask Banquo as i believe he listens to 1FM. My biggest musical question is when will Brother Beyond reclaim their throne.

Ah, the inspiration behind the high waisted white jean. What a look, what a band. 1988 shall never be forgotten

p/d wrote:

skidger wrote:

p/d wrote:
Here's a question for a grounded thoughtful chap, Ellie Goulding. Why? I just don't see it.

Are we talking looks wise or her warbling? I listen to Sam FM,6music and Absolute 80s and know about two of her songs. Ask Banquo as i believe he listens to 1FM. My biggest musical question is when will Brother Beyond reclaim their throne.

Ah, the inspiration behind the high waisted white jean. What a look, what a band. 1988 shall never be forgotten

Not just double denim but i believe the lead singer once pulled off double white denim. Incredible and worthy of an OBE at least.

Rumours that sinckler is being poached by the lions, I bloody hope not.

twitchy wrote:Rumours that sinckler is being poached by the lions, I bloody hope not.

It's just the sort of selection that could happen - probably resulting in him just doing useless mid-week bench duty, or, worse still, getting injured. It is not a good move for him after what - one start for England?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... selection/

Wouldnt surprise me. There are doubts about his scrummaging but his play in the lose is sensationally good for a front row forward. With Nel unavailable, I can see that Sinckler as 3rd TH does have its attractions.

I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Timbo wrote:I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Will it? I think part of Oakboy's point is that as a 3rd choice, Sinckler would be mostly playing mid-week games. I'd say the best he could hope for would be bench cameos in the test games. I wouldn't rule that out but I'd argue that starting against Argentina with a chance to hold on to the shirt for the AIs would be far better for Sinckler's development.

I get it from a Lions point of view, but not from England's.

Timbo wrote:I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Like has been said it seems a bit early for him. The argentina tour would have been a perfect gradual ramp up.

Scrumhead wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Will it? I think part of Oakboy's point is that as a 3rd choice, Sinckler would be mostly playing mid-week games. I'd say the best he could hope for would be bench cameos in the test games. I wouldn't rule that out but I'd argue that starting against Argentina with a chance to hold on to the shirt for the AIs would be far better for Sinckler's development.

I get it from a Lions point of view, but not from England's.

The midweek games are the Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs and the Highlanders. That's as good as test standard by any measure.

Anyway, point isn't that he'd be better off touring with the Lions or England or putting his feet up or whatever, simply that in such a rugby fertile environment he would have to be a complete donut not to come away somehow improved. Imo.

Even as 3rd choice he should see a fair bit of action, either starting or from the bench. Probably more game time than starting 2 tests in Argentina tbh, as long as he stays fit. However, I dont believe going on a Lions tour works for everyone. Some will thrive, some wont. Very difficult to assess at this stage what will help him more. Certainly from an England pov it would be a shame if, after playing 2nd string all season to Cole, he didnt get a chance to start in Argentina.

Talk of T'eo gojng to NZ too.

Tom Marshall absolutely outstanding for Glaws again yesterday in front of Eddie Jones. Bloke is a class act - outplayed Haley comfortably.

TRP making Marshall their MoTM. Haley has gone backwards this season and with Brown looking in need of a break, Marshall could be a tourist.

Only thing with Marshall is I'm not sure how quick he is. He might be one of those that travels pretty quickly but doesn't really look it?Not sure. But Eddie did say that if he's going to replace Brown he wants a real gas merchant back there.

Personally not so keen on Woodward, although he does have the speed. Lots of rough edges to his game imo. Of the two I would 100% prefer Marshall.

Scrumhead wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Will it? I think part of Oakboy's point is that as a 3rd choice, Sinckler would be mostly playing mid-week games. I'd say the best he could hope for would be bench cameos in the test games. I wouldn't rule that out but I'd argue that starting against Argentina with a chance to hold on to the shirt for the AIs would be far better for Sinckler's development.

I get it from a Lions point of view, but not from England's.

Didn't do Conor Murray any harm going as a 3rd choice tourist last time - nor Mako Vunipola for that matter. Conversely, its pretty difficult to think of anyone who used the Argentina tour last time round as their springboard to international glory.

Possibility of physically breaking aside, I don't think it really makes much of a difference who goes where from a development point of view. Its not like Wade, Barritt and Twelvetrees benefited from being in tour call ups, its not like Kvesic or Eastmond benefited from playing well in Argentina... Jones is good but its not like he's been able to turn guys like Harrison or Clifford into the real deal just like that, he hasn't turned Sinckler into SuperProp in one window so he's probably not managing it in two either.

Peat wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it'll be a great experience for Sinckler. Testing himself in the best Rugby country on earth against the best players in a high pressure environment will make him a better player.

Will it? I think part of Oakboy's point is that as a 3rd choice, Sinckler would be mostly playing mid-week games. I'd say the best he could hope for would be bench cameos in the test games. I wouldn't rule that out but I'd argue that starting against Argentina with a chance to hold on to the shirt for the AIs would be far better for Sinckler's development.

I get it from a Lions point of view, but not from England's.

Didn't do Conor Murray any harm going as a 3rd choice tourist last time - nor Mako Vunipola for that matter. Conversely, its pretty difficult to think of anyone who used the Argentina tour last time round as their springboard to international glory.

Possibility of physically breaking aside, I don't think it really makes much of a difference who goes where from a development point of view. Its not like Wade, Barritt and Twelvetrees benefited from being in tour call ups, its not like Kvesic or Eastmond benefited from playing well in Argentina... Jones is good but its not like he's been able to turn guys like Harrison or Clifford into the real deal just like that, he hasn't turned Sinckler into SuperProp in one window so he's probably not managing it in two either.

Some good stuff there. Based on general opinion after the RWC debacle, I suppose Eddie's major achievements have been getting effective international performances out of Hartley, Haskell and Robshaw. Later, he got more out of Daly (out of position) and Hughes than many predicted. He also managed injury absences well (Kruis, Itoje, Robshaw and Billy at various times).

Most of that probably points to Eddie doing well at what he concentrates on most. The Argentina games will demand that he broadens his outlook.

It might be wholly incorrect to compare the last tour to Argentina to this coming one when last time out Argentina weren't close to picking a test side

Digby wrote:It might be wholly incorrect to compare the last tour to Argentina to this coming one when last time out Argentina weren't close to picking a test side

Its probably not wholly incorrect. It mightn't be completely comparable, but its still two tests in the same country in the same situation. The only things changing will be the quality of the coaching, the quality of the opposition, and hopefully the quality of the players going.

Plus if quality of opposition is a big consideration, then the NZ tour is an even bigger learning opportunity than Oz, particularly when it comes to the midweek games, so wins all round.

The real biggest difference comes if Jones keeps to his promise to rest the Lions players and keep giving the new boys a lash. Two windows to get up to the level and build confidence could be huge.

Oakboy wrote:, he got more out Hughes than many predicted

say what now??

How about this for an 18 year old (from premiership rugby website), re: Ben Curry:

"The 18-year-old flanker forced six turnovers during the match, which was not just the most of the weekend, but the highest from any player in an Aviva Premiership match since February 2015.

In fact, the only player to have ever made more since OPTA started recording data is David Seymour, who made seven for the Sharks against Bath Rugby in December 2011."

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:, he got more out Hughes than many predicted

say what now??

By the end of the 6n he was trundling into contact rather than walking. Take a bow Eddie.