RugbyRebels

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Absolutely a historical norm, as proven by Pikkety's magnus opus, inequality is worsening again due to rises in income from capital outperforming rises income from wages. It is clear that that situation leads to increasing inequality. If unmitigated, it will cause instability in the capitalist order, as at a certain point enough will be enough. That's not to predict a resurgence in old ideologies, rather a prediction that a new ideological force will emerge.

Instability in the capitalist order is again nothing g new, and not is it uncommon in any system where people feel hard done by. Suggesting that something else will emerge is perhaps a bit of wishful thinking by Pikkety. It all sounds like a new paradigm although Pikkety is more intelligent than Russell Brand.

Ultimately, the hard right capitalist structure that is the target of many left wing rebuttals doesn’t exist in this country. All Weatern European capitalist economies practice a degree of socialism, whilst still maintaining capitalist principles.

Instability may come, but it won’t be because of inequality, which has been slowly decreasing for the last 20 years*, but it may come about due to the perception of feeling hard done by, which goes back to your post pointing out the current narrative about the drift to the right

*https://fullfact.org/economy/fifty-year ... nequality/

If there's a reaction to a feeling the status quo isn't just it might be the blame immigrants, want a reduced role for government (or some perception of such if not a reality), lower taxes (or some perception of such if not a reality) and head to the right in politics. Indeed given we as a nation might lean more to the right than the left it seems an easier shift than socialism. It's also quite likely we get a nativistic/populist approach which steals equally from the left and the right

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:The Tomes has a story today about Tory MPs asking their constituency associations to support their bids for re election. There’s a rumour in the air that due to the stalled Brexit negotiations within government, another election might be needed.

What’s the odds on Brenda from Bristol getting on TV again?

Brexit is a hot potato that will burn whoever is left holding it.

We agree entirely on that. The only benefit I see from a labour victory in any election in the immediate future is that Corbyn will have to make his mind up on Brexit.

If Labour campaigned as the voice of the 48% I think they could edge it, provided they keep the crazier elements out of the media

What a fucking shitstorm. I love it!

Seriously though, I do feel bad for Theresa May to an extent. She now has to negotiate in good faith for something that has turned into the political equivalent of the Gordian knot, which she didn't even want in the first place, with a bunch of people whom the previous bunch representing the UK ensured would hate her fucking guts. But on the other hand, fuck her.

cashead wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Brexit is a hot potato that will burn whoever is left holding it.

We agree entirely on that. The only benefit I see from a labour victory in any election in the immediate future is that Corbyn will have to make his mind up on Brexit.

If Labour campaigned as the voice of the 48% I think they could edge it, provided they keep the crazier elements out of the media

What a fucking shitstorm. I love it!

Seriously though, I do feel bad for Theresa May to an extent. She now has to negotiate in good faith for something that has turned into the political equivalent of the Gordian knot, which she didn't even want in the first place, with a bunch of people whom the previous bunch representing the UK ensured would hate her fucking guts. But on the other hand, fuck her.

I agree with your last sentence. If you campaign for remain and then choose to run for PM after leave has won, you deserve all you get.

Did May campaign to remain? Or did she sit on the fence not wanting to burn fences if a leave vote resulted and the party leadership was up for grabs?

I think she was torn. Mainly due to the fun and games with deporting Abu Hamza (spelling?) and also because she’s not a big fan of freedom of movement, whilst also believing it would be damaging to the economy and the sharing of intelligence between EU countries is incredibly important. She eventually said she was voting remain but she didn’t really campaign. I don’t think she did it for career reasons - literally no one in Govt thought leave would win and therefore no one expected Cameron to resign.

Going off on a tangent......imagine if she had campaigned for remain. Leave would’ve won by 20 percentage points!!

Digby wrote:Did May campaign to remain? Or did she sit on the fence not wanting to burn fences if a leave vote resulted and the party leadership was up for grabs?

She wasn't an outspoken proponent for Remain, but she is on record as being against Brexit.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:Did May campaign to remain? Or did she sit on the fence not wanting to burn fences if a leave vote resulted and the party leadership was up for grabs?

She wasn't an outspoken proponent for Remain, but she is on record as being against Brexit.

Boris Johnson is on record against Brexit.

I do find it unlikely nobody in government thought leave would win. I thought for decades leave would win if given such a vote, and I can't possibly be alone in such thinking. It's possible May was on the fence as she was somewhat on the fence, it's also likely she didn't want to ruffle any feathers knowing the PM would be under huge pressure with a narrow win never mind a defeat

I don't think May was on the fence at all. She is hardly a conviction politician, I expect had the polls said that leave was ahead she would have cast her vote that way.

£10 says I know Corbyn’s next policy announcement:

Who's the red 33%

Mellsblue wrote:£10 says I know Corbyn’s next policy announcement:

Let me guess, tories assume any decent chap will be able to pop round the corner to their club.

canta_brian wrote:I don't think May was on the fence at all. She is hardly a conviction politician, I expect had the polls said that leave was ahead she would have cast her vote that way.

She seems comfortable enough getting in bed with a party with links to terrorists. Interpret that how you will.

cashead wrote:

canta_brian wrote:I don't think May was on the fence at all. She is hardly a conviction politician, I expect had the polls said that leave was ahead she would have cast her vote that way.

She seems comfortable enough getting in bed with a party with links to terrorists. Interpret that how you will.

Labour?

Digby wrote:

cashead wrote:

canta_brian wrote:I don't think May was on the fence at all. She is hardly a conviction politician, I expect had the polls said that leave was ahead she would have cast her vote that way.

She seems comfortable enough getting in bed with a party with links to terrorists. Interpret that how you will.

Labour?

Read up on the DUP and UDA.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:

cashead wrote: She seems comfortable enough getting in bed with a party with links to terrorists. Interpret that how you will.

Labour?

Read up on the DUP and UDA.

Hardly needed, I've got friends and family who served in Northern Ireland. Indeed some are now strewn all over the globe and they have no intention of coming back in case they're ever arrested on the back of a political deal.

All our parties have links to terrorists tbh, it's in many ways far from the worst of the lunacy of the DUP. Worth noting though Labour could stump up 15 MPs to avoid the worst of the DUP, and they'd rather not and simply play a blame game instead.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:

cashead wrote: She seems comfortable enough getting in bed with a party with links to terrorists. Interpret that how you will.

Labour?

Read up on the DUP and UDA.

You couldn’t go into NI politics without being so. In fact, any agreement with Sein Fein and you are getting in to bed with actual terrorists. However, the Good Friday Agreement, that everyone is rightly saying is sacrosanct, means that there are no terrorists in NI politics now.

cashead wrote:Who's the red 33%

Control group.

Mellsblue wrote:

cashead wrote:Who's the red 33%

Control group.

Those bastards.

Mellsblue wrote:

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:
Labour?

Read up on the DUP and UDA.

You couldn’t go into NI politics without being so. In fact, any agreement with Sein Fein and you are getting in to bed with actual terrorists. However, the Good Friday Agreement, that everyone is rightly saying is sacrosanct, means that there are no terrorists in NI politics now.

Didn't the Terrorism Act of 2000 define a shitload of those NI groups as terrorists, or is it a case of of "basically, but not quite" due to the wording of the bill?

cashead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

cashead wrote: Read up on the DUP and UDA.

You couldn’t go into NI politics without being so. In fact, any agreement with Sein Fein and you are getting in to bed with actual terrorists. However, the Good Friday Agreement, that everyone is rightly saying is sacrosanct, means that there are no terrorists in NI politics now.

Didn't the Terrorism Act of 2000 define a shitload of those NI groups as terrorists, or is it a case of of "basically, but not quite" due to the wording of the bill?

It was more that the Good Friday Agreement drew a line under previous terrorist incidents so peace could be reached. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have had members of the IRA sitting in Stormont. My point really wasn’t about the minutiae but an overarching point that you can’t go within 10 miles of NI politics without being at least connected to terrorism.

Defying all logic:
YouGov’s latest voting intention poll puts the Tories on 44 per cent, up two points on last week, and Labour on 37 per cent, down two points. In the polling for best prime minister, Theresa May and ‘don’t know’ are tied on 37 per cent, ahead of Jeremy Corbyn on 24 per cent.

Mellsblue wrote:Defying all logic:
YouGov’s latest voting intention poll puts the Tories on 44 per cent, up two points on last week, and Labour on 37 per cent, down two points. In the polling for best prime minister, Theresa May and ‘don’t know’ are tied on 37 per cent, ahead of Jeremy Corbyn on 24 per cent.

Odd. This is by some distance the least competent administration I can remember- I'm not talking about their policies (and where are they??), but their absolute ineptness at everything from basic administration to having no ideas to inability to keep any confidences to having any connection with what's occurring in the non Brexit world and so on. Useless, incompetents everywhere you look, often combined with being an indiscreet blowhard; when Gove looks the best performer, it says something.

Mellsblue wrote:Defying all logic:
YouGov’s latest voting intention poll puts the Tories on 44 per cent, up two points on last week, and Labour on 37 per cent, down two points. In the polling for best prime minister, Theresa May and ‘don’t know’ are tied on 37 per cent, ahead of Jeremy Corbyn on 24 per cent.

Politics no longer makes much sense. But I still think that support for Corbyn isn’t as high as his supporters co sides it to me and the concerns over what his government might do are still prevalent.

A competent Tory leader would be romping it. A competent labour leader with wider appeal would be romping it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 07176.html

That this isn't already the case is absurd.

That moment you realise Banquo is Michael Gove: