Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23

[Mikey Brown]

I’m hearing some things on the grapevine regarding Jack Willis. Only rumours at this point but my sources haven’t let me down in the past. Stay tuned…

[Oakboy]

Per BBC early pm:

"Flanker Jack Willis has signed a new three-year deal with Toulouse, potentially putting his England future in doubt.

Willis joined Toulouse in November after Wasps went into administration

He was allowed to play in the Six Nations because of "exceptional circumstances" surrounding Wasps.

Willis, 26, will be available for the World Cup this autumn, after which England's restriction on players based abroad is set to be reinstated.

The Rugby Football Union (RFU) and Premiership Rugby have a rule whereby players selected for England must compete in the Premiership.

A regular starter for Toulouse, Willis became England head coach Steve Borthwick's first-choice openside flanker in the Six Nations.

His contract with the French club was due to expire at the end of this season.

Willis spoke during the Six Nations of his hopes for a rule change, telling the BBC's Rugby Union Daily podcast: "At Wasps we were a victim of financial struggles.

"There's lots of clubs feeling that same pressure [and] that pressure needs to give in some shape or form.

"Some of those higher earners, maybe that is a solution to look to relieve that pressure, that they are earning their salaries abroad.

"There are lots of things to consider and it is not the most straightforward solution but I definitely think it is something that should be on the table in those discussions."

Other England players are also heading abroad for next season. David Ribbans will compete at Toulon, Joe Marchant is heading to Stade Francais, Sam Simmonds will play for Montpellier with Jack Nowell also set to sign for the French club.

Luke Cowan-Dickie is expected to move to Montpellier but is currently injured."

[Mellsblue]

I’m hearing some things on the grapevine regarding Jack Willis. Only rumours at this point but my sources haven’t let me down in the past. Stay tuned…

Given how much I know you love his bants. Is this guy your source?

[FKAS]

Per BBC early pm:

"Flanker Jack Willis has signed a new three-year deal with Toulouse, potentially putting his England future in doubt.

Willis joined Toulouse in November after Wasps went into administration

He was allowed to play in the Six Nations because of "exceptional circumstances" surrounding Wasps.

Willis, 26, will be available for the World Cup this autumn, after which England's restriction on players based abroad is set to be reinstated.

The Rugby Football Union (RFU) and Premiership Rugby have a rule whereby players selected for England must compete in the Premiership.

A regular starter for Toulouse, Willis became England head coach Steve Borthwick's first-choice openside flanker in the Six Nations.

His contract with the French club was due to expire at the end of this season.

Willis spoke during the Six Nations of his hopes for a rule change, telling the BBC's Rugby Union Daily podcast: "At Wasps we were a victim of financial struggles.

"There's lots of clubs feeling that same pressure [and] that pressure needs to give in some shape or form.

"Some of those higher earners, maybe that is a solution to look to relieve that pressure, that they are earning their salaries abroad.

"There are lots of things to consider and it is not the most straightforward solution but I definitely think it is something that should be on the table in those discussions."

Other England players are also heading abroad for next season. David Ribbans will compete at Toulon, Joe Marchant is heading to Stade Francais, Sam Simmonds will play for Montpellier with Jack Nowell also set to sign for the French club.

Luke Cowan-Dickie is expected to move to Montpellier but is currently injured."

What a shock the guy who's signed to play in France thinks players should be able to do so and still play for England.

[Oakboy]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

[Puja]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

That would certainly help, but it wouldn't solve all the problems. What about pre-window training camps? See JWillis not joining England until the Monday before the first 6N game, when everyone else had been able to train for an extra week. Or what about a 4th Autumn International - in a time of atretched budgets, do we want to limit the RFU's options to have a money-spinning extra fixture?

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

Do you feel like the salary cap is just a needless restriction? It would be great if we had 12 English Leinsters with unlimited funding and resources but I don’t think it would work that way.

[Oakboy]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

Do you feel like the salary cap is just a needless restriction? It would be great if we had 12 English Leinsters with unlimited funding and resources but I don’t think it would work that way.

With the way that the game is currently administered I accept that a salary cap is effective as a means of supporting some clubs. Whether, in the long term, that is right for English rugby is a different debate. What I don't like is pushing some of our best players abroad [while paying foreign players) AND diminishing the standard of the national team. Furthermore, IF there were no club/country fixture clashes clubs would need smaller squads anyway.

[Oakboy]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

That would certainly help, but it wouldn't solve all the problems. What about pre-window training camps? See JWillis not joining England until the Monday before the first 6N game, when everyone else had been able to train for an extra week. Or what about a 4th Autumn International - in a time of atretched budgets, do we want to limit the RFU's options to have a money-spinning extra fixture?

Puja

Agreed. But, should we not be capable of mirroring other countries? Let's get everyone on an equal footing. Why can't there be common ground on player release? I find it cranky that Scottish players play for English clubs in the gap weeks for example.

[FKAS]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

That would certainly help, but it wouldn't solve all the problems. What about pre-window training camps? See JWillis not joining England until the Monday before the first 6N game, when everyone else had been able to train for an extra week. Or what about a 4th Autumn International - in a time of atretched budgets, do we want to limit the RFU's options to have a money-spinning extra fixture?

Puja

Agreed. But, should we not be capable of mirroring other countries? Let's get everyone on an equal footing. Why can't there be common ground on player release? I find it cranky that Scottish players play for English clubs in the gap weeks for example.

The RFU pay for the EPS players to be released during the international gap weeks. Same with pre tournament training weeks. The PRL have said they will do the same for other nations but only if those unions contribute the same way as the RFU does. This is why they fined Saints when North and Biggar were released outside of international windows. The Prem clubs want the EPS money from the RFU.

I'm also torn on the gap weeks in the 6N. On the one hand a rest week is good for players mid season on the down side it doesn't help the flow of the tournament.

[FKAS]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

Do you feel like the salary cap is just a needless restriction? It would be great if we had 12 English Leinsters with unlimited funding and resources but I don’t think it would work that way.

With the way that the game is currently administered I accept that a salary cap is effective as a means of supporting some clubs. Whether, in the long term, that is right for English rugby is a different debate. What I don't like is pushing some of our best players abroad [while paying foreign players) AND diminishing the standard of the national team. Furthermore, IF there were no club/country fixture clashes clubs would need smaller squads anyway.

Remove the salary cap completely and the club's with the wealthy backers will have licence to spend what they like. When they get bored there will be another Wasps or Wuss style scenario with the club left with liabilities it cannot pay. You can't rely on rich people to act responsibly.

I'm fully behind the "play in England to play for England" stance. Removal of it will either destroy the quality of the Prem or bring about the end of the salary cap and see a wild west approach to club fiscal responsibility (and that's bad enough as it is).

[Mellsblue]

I’m just glad the salary cap has led to no teams going under, none being touted for £1 etc etc.
I’m also glad to find out that rich people can’t act responsibly, especially those f**kers who have been in the news for bailing out LI, Cardiff and Tigers in the past few months. Irresponsible. Let’s not get in to the likes of Wray and Rowe who have poured £millions in to their clubs over years and years.
It’s held the game back. A salary cap as a % of turnover would be better. Incentivise growth. All imo, obvs.

[Puja]

I think the RFU should actively campaign for two obvious changes: 1. Remove the 6N gap weeks; 2. End the stupidity of ANY top tier club games clashing with international competition matches. Then, for as long as the salary cap applies, allow overseas-based players to play for England with a review once it is removed.

That would certainly help, but it wouldn't solve all the problems. What about pre-window training camps? See JWillis not joining England until the Monday before the first 6N game, when everyone else had been able to train for an extra week. Or what about a 4th Autumn International - in a time of atretched budgets, do we want to limit the RFU's options to have a money-spinning extra fixture?

Puja

Agreed. But, should we not be capable of mirroring other countries? Let's get everyone on an equal footing. Why can't there be common ground on player release? I find it cranky that Scottish players play for English clubs in the gap weeks for example.

Not really. Common ground on player release is IRB Regulation 8, which is the week before an international. And, while you can say that works for Scotland, they're still picking the majority of their players from 2 sides, so cohesion is hardly an issue. England is picking from between 6 and 12 sides at the moment and I can't imagine how much worse it'd be if we lose players to the top 14 and end up with a 33 player squad spread across 20 sides.

Puja

[FKAS]

I’m just glad the salary cap has led to no teams going under, none being touted for £1 etc etc.
I’m also glad to find out that rich people can’t act responsibly, especially those f**kers who have been in the news for bailing out LI, Cardiff and Tigers in the past few months. Irresponsible. Let’s not get in to the likes of Wray and Rowe who have poured £millions in to their clubs over years and years.
It’s held the game back. A salary cap as a % of turnover would be better. Incentivise growth. All imo, obvs.

Even that's not straightforward. How do you stop a businessman using his company to "sponsor" a team to get round the stipulation and pour unsustainable revenue in as opposed to any real growth?

Incidentally I'm not particularly against owners bailing out their businesses that have suffered during COVID. Plenty of shareholders around the world have done similar. Wray was at one point overseeing Sarries wrack up losses of £5m a season and most of it owed to him. Now he and his family have opted to continue their support but if they ever decided to pull the plug then Sarries would disappear fast. Tigers aren't in a much better position but at least the cash injection is all capital so it's secure and with the last share issue the club is expected to be sustainable for an extended period of time. Hopefully long enough for the Covid disrupted side businesses to start making profits.

[Mellsblue]

I’m just glad the salary cap has led to no teams going under, none being touted for £1 etc etc.
I’m also glad to find out that rich people can’t act responsibly, especially those f**kers who have been in the news for bailing out LI, Cardiff and Tigers in the past few months. Irresponsible. Let’s not get in to the likes of Wray and Rowe who have poured £millions in to their clubs over years and years.
It’s held the game back. A salary cap as a % of turnover would be better. Incentivise growth. All imo, obvs.

Even that's not straightforward. How do you stop a businessman using his company to "sponsor" a team to get round the stipulation and pour unsustainable revenue in as opposed to any real growth?

The same way Sarries were pulled up over Itoje’s image rights. You get an independent auditor to verify what the market rate is.
If almost any of the owners pulled out of any of the clubs they’d disappear fast.

[FKAS]

I’m just glad the salary cap has led to no teams going under, none being touted for £1 etc etc.
I’m also glad to find out that rich people can’t act responsibly, especially those f**kers who have been in the news for bailing out LI, Cardiff and Tigers in the past few months. Irresponsible. Let’s not get in to the likes of Wray and Rowe who have poured £millions in to their clubs over years and years.
It’s held the game back. A salary cap as a % of turnover would be better. Incentivise growth. All imo, obvs.

Even that's not straightforward. How do you stop a businessman using his company to "sponsor" a team to get round the stipulation and pour unsustainable revenue in as opposed to any real growth?

The same way Sarries were pulled up over Itoje’s image rights. You get an independent auditor to verify what the market rate is.
If almost any of the owners pulled out of any of the clubs they’d disappear fast.

Auditors are expensive. You'd have to cap it at a percentage of total revenue. There would have to be an alignment of accounting yearends. Do all groups for which the rugby club is a member count or would clubs have to potentially reorganise structures in order for all assets to count?

[Mellsblue]

Even that's not straightforward. How do you stop a businessman using his company to "sponsor" a team to get round the stipulation and pour unsustainable revenue in as opposed to any real growth?

The same way Sarries were pulled up over Itoje’s image rights. You get an independent auditor to verify what the market rate is.
If almost any of the owners pulled out of any of the clubs they’d disappear fast.

Auditors are expensive. You'd have to cap it at a percentage of total revenue. There would have to be an alignment of accounting yearends. Do all groups for which the rugby club is a member count or would clubs have to potentially reorganise structures in order for all assets to count?

Minor issues that are all solvable.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Not sure if already covered, but Saints academy intake this year is:
Henry Pollock
Archie McParland
Will Glister
Reuben Logan
Toby Cousins
Ewan Baker

That’s as good an intake from schools as I’ve seen in a long time!

[Puja]

Not sure if already covered, but Saints academy intake this year is:
Henry Pollock
Archie McParland
Will Glister
Reuben Logan
Toby Cousins
Ewan Baker

That’s as good an intake from schools as I’ve seen in a long time!

Yeesh. That's going to be a hell of a spine of your team in 5-6 years or so.

Puja

[Puja]

Tomiwa Agbongbon (ex of Leicester) has joined Houston Sabercats in MLR. He was born in the US, so good move for him, you'd think.

ETA. Kitan Ojo also leaving Quins to join Houston, as he's also US qualified. Good bit of business to pick up two youngsters who haven't broken through English academies.

Puja

[FKAS]

Agbongbon has been a mainstay at Loughborough University during his time there. Deserved a pro offer, just a shame he didn't quite make it during his few months at Tigers. He's a big lad.

[Mikey Brown]

I assumed Wigglesworth was intended to be brought in as attack coach and that was the reason Evans was only ever a 6 nations stop-gap, but it seems like that wasn’t ever the plan? It sounds an awful lot like yet another huge fucking bungle.

Harlequins have blocked England from bringing back Nick Evans for the World Cup leaving Steve Borthwick in search of another attack coach less than five months out from the tournament.

Harlequins allowed Evans to leave on secondment for the Six Nations in Borthwick’s first Championship in charge, feeling it would help improve the former All Black fly half as a coach as well as helping the national side in a one-off situation.

However, the Premiership side felt it was unreasonable to allow their preparations for the 2023/24 season to be upended by releasing Evans again. Harlequins lost four of their five matches when Evans was with England during the Six Nations, leaving the club needing to make up ground in the play-off race. England’s World Cup training camp begins in mid-June meaning Evans could have been absent for up to four months.

Richard Wigglesworth, the current Leicester head coach, is due to join England’s coaching team for the World Cup in an unspecified assistant role and could fill the breach, although it was previously understood his remit would involve kicking with elements of defence. Borthwick is also on the hunt for a forwards coach focusing on the scrum to replace Richard Cockerill who is joining French side Montpellier.

Telegraph Sport understands that Harlequins would not have stood in Evans’ way if England had sought a permanent role, but the appointment of Felix Jones, who will join Borthwick’s coaching ticket from South Africa after the conclusion of the World Cup, seems to have put pay to that proposal.

It means that England’s players will have to adapt to a fifth attack coach in five years. Scott Wisemantel was in charge of that department at the last World Cup while Simon Amor and Martin Gleeson both held the reins before Evans joined in the Six Nations. Former England head coach Eddie Jones frequently took a hands-on role in directing the backs.

Heading in to a World Cup we have no attack coach or forwards coach. Brilliant. Jones doesn’t even arrive until 2024?

I’m really not sure we know what we’re doing at all.

[Margin_Walker]

Tomiwa Agbongbon (ex of Leicester) has joined Houston Sabercats in MLR. He was born in the US, so good move for him, you'd think.

ETA. Kitan Ojo also leaving Quins to join Houston, as he's also US qualified. Good bit of business to pick up two youngsters who haven't broken through English academies.

Puja

Chunya Munga was on Corbs' NBC podcast the other week. Joked that both he and Chandler Cunningham-South in the LI squad are US qualified. If either never end up being capped by England, they would still be young enough to have a crack at the US team for the home world cup in 2031.

[Puja]

Tomiwa Agbongbon (ex of Leicester) has joined Houston Sabercats in MLR. He was born in the US, so good move for him, you'd think.

ETA. Kitan Ojo also leaving Quins to join Houston, as he's also US qualified. Good bit of business to pick up two youngsters who haven't broken through English academies.

Puja

Chunya Munga was on Corbs' NBC podcast the other week. Joked that both he and Chandler Cunningham-South in the LI squad are US qualified. If either never end up being capped by England, they would still be young enough to have a crack at the US team for the home world cup in 2031.

I think CCS is definitely good enough to play for England in the future, but I wouldn't begrudge Munga having an explore of his Yankee roots.

Puja

[stepsider]

I assumed Wigglesworth was intended to be brought in as attack coach and that was the reason Evans was only ever a 6 nations stop-gap, but it seems like that wasn’t ever the plan? It sounds an awful lot like yet another huge fucking bungle.

Harlequins have blocked England from bringing back Nick Evans for the World Cup leaving Steve Borthwick in search of another attack coach less than five months out from the tournament.

Harlequins allowed Evans to leave on secondment for the Six Nations in Borthwick’s first Championship in charge, feeling it would help improve the former All Black fly half as a coach as well as helping the national side in a one-off situation.

However, the Premiership side felt it was unreasonable to allow their preparations for the 2023/24 season to be upended by releasing Evans again. Harlequins lost four of their five matches when Evans was with England during the Six Nations, leaving the club needing to make up ground in the play-off race. England’s World Cup training camp begins in mid-June meaning Evans could have been absent for up to four months.

Richard Wigglesworth, the current Leicester head coach, is due to join England’s coaching team for the World Cup in an unspecified assistant role and could fill the breach, although it was previously understood his remit would involve kicking with elements of defence. Borthwick is also on the hunt for a forwards coach focusing on the scrum to replace Richard Cockerill who is joining French side Montpellier.

Telegraph Sport understands that Harlequins would not have stood in Evans’ way if England had sought a permanent role, but the appointment of Felix Jones, who will join Borthwick’s coaching ticket from South Africa after the conclusion of the World Cup, seems to have put pay to that proposal.

It means that England’s players will have to adapt to a fifth attack coach in five years. Scott Wisemantel was in charge of that department at the last World Cup while Simon Amor and Martin Gleeson both held the reins before Evans joined in the Six Nations. Former England head coach Eddie Jones frequently took a hands-on role in directing the backs.

Heading in to a World Cup we have no attack coach or forwards coach. Brilliant. Jones doesn’t even arrive until 2024?

I’m really not sure we know what we’re doing at all.

We - or rather the RFU management - don't know, full stop.

No chance of Marcus Smith usurping OF now.