EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[skidger]

Given a) Gatland's history of odd mid-tour call ups for the Lions and b) his occasional tendency to fixate on people who can do one thing well while missing swathes of basic skills, I wonder whether he'd go for Solomona. It'd certainly be interesting.

Puja

Yep Solomona and Wade would be interesting. He may have cottoned on that they will need score at least 25-30pts to beat the Kiwis. But as WT says he may just call up Cuthbert so we call all marvel at his positioning and turning speed.

[6.5]

Given a) Gatland's history of odd mid-tour call ups for the Lions and b) his occasional tendency to fixate on people who can do one thing well while missing swathes of basic skills, I wonder whether he'd go for Solomona. It'd certainly be interesting.

Puja

Yep Solomona and Wade would be interesting. He may have cottoned on that they will need score at least 25-30pts to beat the Kiwis. But as WT says he may just call up Cuthbert so we call all marvel at his positioning and turning speed.

He should use it as an opportunity to call up Ford. The amount of good ball the forwards are winning, they may even score some tries with him at 10.


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[6.5]

So after yesterday, what do we know about England?

Mako is excellent. Genge has extreme potential, but is raw.
George is better than Hartley...
Williams can be our 3rd choice THP.
Launch is superb. Ewels will do OK as 5th lock.
Wilson can be backup 6. No more Wood No more Haskell
Curry is a freak of nature.
Hughes can be backup 8, but needs to push at the bloody scrums!
Care is better at a 9s core skills than Youngs...
Ford is on a different planet to Farrell as an attacking 10. But Farrell has improved a lot.
Loz and Slade can effectively play in midfield. Te'o is a great option if you want a hard runner.
Slade is a mercurial talent we should find a way to use.
Yarde is good.
Brown's day has passed. Watson is an international FB.

Under Eddie we now have a squad with pretty much two or more international class options at every position. Next season the options could be:

Mako *, Marler, Genge
George, Hartley, LCD, Taylor
Cole, Williams, Sinckler
Kruis *, Lawes
Itoje, Launch
Robshaw, Clifford, Hask
T Curry, B Curry, Underhill
Billy *, Hughes, Mercer

Youngs, Care
Ford *, Francis
Farrell, Slade, Mallinder
JJ, Marchant
Daly, Nowell, Watson, May, Yarde
Brown, Lozowski

* = genuine world class

Big questions for me would be:

1. Who plays in the second row? So much quality so how do we pick who plays alongside Kruis?
2. Back row composition - I think Billy and Robshaw should start through to 2019 - the Currys would compliment them well but will we brake them!?
3. 9 - we need a crisp passing option there. Townsend for me is in the box seat if he maintains his form.
4. 10/12 - How do you get the most out of Ford. I think Slade would be his best partner in midfield but Farrell is the media darling.
5. Brown is clearly past it - do we move Watson / Nowell / Daly there or can Lozowski start there for sarries? I think hes the best option.
6. Skipper - Hartley is blocking quality hookers but his leadership skill are valued. Who can replace him? I would like Kruis or Billy to do it but worry it would be Farrell.

The big wildcard is Manu and how we accommodate him if he is fit without ruining the backline balance. Ford / Slade / Manu has me drooling.

I imagine we will leave some players out of our EPS who would start for most other 6N sides. The future is bright.


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[Tom Moore]

So after yesterday, what do we know about England?

Mako is excellent. Genge has extreme potential, but is raw.
George is better than Hartley...
Williams can be our 3rd choice THP.
Launch is superb. Ewels will do OK as 5th lock.
Wilson can be backup 6. No more Wood No more Haskell
Curry is a freak of nature.
Hughes can be backup 8, but needs to push at the bloody scrums!
Care is better at a 9s core skills than Youngs...
Ford is on a different planet to Farrell as an attacking 10. But Farrell has improved a lot.
Loz and Slade can effectively play in midfield. Te'o is a great option if you want a hard runner.
Slade is a mercurial talent we should find a way to use.
Yarde is good.
Brown's day has passed. Watson is an international FB.

Under Eddie we now have a squad with pretty much two or more international class options at every position. Next season the options could be:

Mako *, Marler, Genge
George, Hartley, LCD, Taylor
Cole, Williams, Sinckler
Kruis *, Lawes
Itoje, Launch
Robshaw, Clifford, Hask
T Curry, B Curry, Underhill
Billy *, Hughes, Mercer

Youngs, Care
Ford *, Francis
Farrell, Slade, Mallinder
JJ, Marchant
Daly, Nowell, Watson, May, Yarde
Brown, Lozowski

* = genuine world class

Big questions for me would be:

1. Who plays in the second row? So much quality so how do we pick who plays alongside Kruis?
2. Back row composition - I think Billy and Robshaw should start through to 2019 - the Currys would compliment them well but will we brake them!?
3. 9 - we need a crisp passing option there. Townsend for me is in the box seat if he maintains his form.
4. 10/12 - How do you get the most out of Ford. I think Slade would be his best partner in midfield but Farrell is the media darling.
5. Brown is clearly past it - do we move Watson / Nowell / Daly there or can Lozowski start there for sarries? I think hes the best option.
6. Skipper - Hartley is blocking quality hookers but his leadership skill are valued. Who can replace him? I would like Kruis or Billy to do it but worry it would be Farrell.

The big wildcard is Manu and how we accommodate him if he is fit without ruining the backline balance. Ford / Slade / Manu has me drooling.

I imagine we will leave some players out of our EPS who would start for most other 6N sides. The future is bright.


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I think Manu needs to be able to put a full season together before he gets looked at again.

Even if he does, I don't think he's a given anymore. We're pretty firmly wedded to a distributor at 12, I would in general probably take Joseph over him for his all round game, and Te'o for the same reason.

[Banquo]

Even if he does, I don't think he's a given anymore. We're pretty firmly wedded to a distributor at 12, I would in general probably take Joseph over him for his all round game, and Te'o for the same reason.

I'm not sure; Eddie's first comments were that he wants go forward from his 12 primarily, and was toying with Manu there until injured. IMO he has compromised in two ways with Faz- as goal kicker, and because he can't see the go forward 12 he wants. The last thing Eddie is though, is dogmatic. He'll go with whatever he thinks will win him games- I agree that in Lozowski and Francis that appears to be the stall he is setting out in Argentina. Me, I'd be looking at Teo at 12, with JJ at 13 in the short term.

[Tom Moore]

Even if he does, I don't think he's a given anymore. We're pretty firmly wedded to a distributor at 12, I would in general probably take Joseph over him for his all round game, and Te'o for the same reason.

I'm not sure; Eddie's first comments were that he wants go forward from his 12 primarily, and was toying with Manu there until injured. IMO he has compromised in two ways with Faz- as goal kicker, and because he can't see the go forward 12 he wants. The last thing Eddie is though, is dogmatic. He'll go with whatever he thinks will win him games- I agree that in Lozowski and Francis that appears to be the stall he is setting out in Argentina. Me, I'd be looking at Teo at 12, with JJ at 13 in the short term.

I agree that's what we he wanted when he took over, and Farrell was definitely a compromise choice.

I think now, though, he's looked at how well we've gone with two playmakers, and the players we've got available, and it's become the default. If not, I think we'd have seen a lot more of Te'o than we did in this years 6N.

I think Joseph is probably our long term 13, Daly seems likely to stay on the wing or hopefully get a shot at full-back.

[Banquo]

Even if he does, I don't think he's a given anymore. We're pretty firmly wedded to a distributor at 12, I would in general probably take Joseph over him for his all round game, and Te'o for the same reason.

I'm not sure; Eddie's first comments were that he wants go forward from his 12 primarily, and was toying with Manu there until injured. IMO he has compromised in two ways with Faz- as goal kicker, and because he can't see the go forward 12 he wants. The last thing Eddie is though, is dogmatic. He'll go with whatever he thinks will win him games- I agree that in Lozowski and Francis that appears to be the stall he is setting out in Argentina. Me, I'd be looking at Teo at 12, with JJ at 13 in the short term.

I agree that's what we he wanted when he took over, and Farrell was definitely a compromise choice.

I think now, though, he's looked at how well we've gone with two playmakers, and the players we've got available, and it's become the default. If not, I think we'd have seen a lot more of Te'o than we did in this years 6N.

I think Joseph is probably our long term 13, Daly seems likely to stay on the wing or hopefully get a shot at full-back.

That's a moot point, and we didn't see more of Teo owing to goal kicking imo, plus Eddie is imo trying to build Ford up. I don't think we will make a step up unless we have a running threat at 12, a 15 of better quality...........and a back row and 9

Its a shame to some extent that Teo isn't in Argentina- I think he and Ford would be a very handy 10/12 combo indeed. And to be clear JJ is our best long term 13....I was saying Ford/Teo/JJ as a short term combo, given that Teo is 30....and I also really like Daly on the wing, if he is to be an intl 15, Wasps have to play him there imo (though he's adapted well-ish to wing).

[Timbo]

I think Ford-Farrell is here to stay. I don't see Eddie not picking either. If Te'o gets in to the starting team it'll be at 13. Joseph is great but I get the impression EJ has a few doubts.

[Banquo]

I think Ford-Farrell is here to stay. I don't see Eddie not picking either. If Te'o gets in to the starting team it'll be at 13. Joseph is great but I get the impression EJ has a few doubts.

...well we won't progress much in the backs then, though it's make a bit more sense with a pacy 15, and using the blindside more to hold the defence.

I agree on JJ, and its odd; maybe its a 'character' thing, Eddie likes voluble and visibly charged/committed people I'm thinking......see the change in Itoje, thinking about it. JJ is a top and very thoughtful defender, not a clatterer...and Eddie likes people to impose themselves. Not that I agree, nor think the team needs to entirely comprise one type.

[Mellsblue]

I think Ford-Farrell is here to stay. I don't see Eddie not picking either. If Te'o gets in to the starting team it'll be at 13. Joseph is great but I get the impression EJ has a few doubts.

...well we won't progress much in the backs then, though it's make a bit more sense with a pacy 15, and using the blindside more to hold the defence.

I agree on JJ, and its odd; maybe its a 'character' thing, Eddie likes voluble and visibly charged/committed people I'm thinking......see the change in Itoje, thinking about it. JJ is a top and very thoughtful defender, not a clatterer...and Eddie likes people to impose themselves. Not that I agree, nor think the team needs to entirely comprise one type.

Possibly the same reason Launch wasn't a first choice, and still many not be when all are fit. Also may be why Launch isn't in NZ.

[Raggs]

I think Ford-Farrell is here to stay. I don't see Eddie not picking either. If Te'o gets in to the starting team it'll be at 13. Joseph is great but I get the impression EJ has a few doubts.

...well we won't progress much in the backs then, though it's make a bit more sense with a pacy 15, and using the blindside more to hold the defence.

I agree on JJ, and its odd; maybe its a 'character' thing, Eddie likes voluble and visibly charged/committed people I'm thinking......see the change in Itoje, thinking about it. JJ is a top and very thoughtful defender, not a clatterer...and Eddie likes people to impose themselves. Not that I agree, nor think the team needs to entirely comprise one type.

Possibly the same reason Launch wasn't a first choice, and still many not be when all are fit. Also may be why Launch isn't in NZ.

Eddie said when he arrived that he wanted England's set piece to be where he started his focus. Both Itoje and Kruis are excellent in the scrum and lineout, whereas Launch is perhaps only acceptable in the lineout, and good in the scrum. I'd take Launch for his open play abilities every time, but if taking a set piece focus, Kruis and Itoje are first choice.

[Banquo]

...well we won't progress much in the backs then, though it's make a bit more sense with a pacy 15, and using the blindside more to hold the defence.

I agree on JJ, and its odd; maybe its a 'character' thing, Eddie likes voluble and visibly charged/committed people I'm thinking......see the change in Itoje, thinking about it. JJ is a top and very thoughtful defender, not a clatterer...and Eddie likes people to impose themselves. Not that I agree, nor think the team needs to entirely comprise one type.

Possibly the same reason Launch wasn't a first choice, and still many not be when all are fit. Also may be why Launch isn't in NZ.

Eddie said when he arrived that he wanted England's set piece to be where he started his focus. Both Itoje and Kruis are excellent in the scrum and lineout, whereas Launch is perhaps only acceptable in the lineout, and good in the scrum. I'd take Launch for his open play abilities every time, but if taking a set piece focus, Kruis and Itoje are first choice.

also Launchbury wasn't fit iirc when Eddie started, so Kruis got first dibs- and he's an excellent lineout leader. As you say, its thought that Kruis/Itoje is the strongest scrummaging combo, and no doubt Borthwick influenced the Lions.

[Spiffy]

Given a) Gatland's history of odd mid-tour call ups for the Lions and b) his occasional tendency to fixate on people who can do one thing well while missing swathes of basic skills, I wonder whether he'd go for Solomona. It'd certainly be interesting.

Puja

Yep Solomona and Wade would be interesting. He may have cottoned on that they will need score at least 25-30pts to beat the Kiwis. But as WT says he may just call up Cuthbert so we call all marvel at his positioning and turning speed.

He should use it as an opportunity to call up Ford. The amount of good ball the forwards are winning, they may even score some tries with him at 10.


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If Hogg is the player to be replaced, it won't be Ford. I would go for Zebo (OK - Irish bias), who is now great under the high ball, has good distribution skills, speed, and a very positive attitude, and can play wing as readily as FB. I'd have him ahead of Brown (and Jack Nowell!) any day.

[Stom]

Yep Solomona and Wade would be interesting. He may have cottoned on that they will need score at least 25-30pts to beat the Kiwis. But as WT says he may just call up Cuthbert so we call all marvel at his positioning and turning speed.

He should use it as an opportunity to call up Ford. The amount of good ball the forwards are winning, they may even score some tries with him at 10.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If Hogg is the player to be replaced, it won't be Ford. I would go for Zebo (OK - Irish bias), who is now great under the high ball, has good distribution skills, speed, and a very positive attitude, and can play wing as readily as FB. I'd have him ahead of Brown (and Jack Nowell!) any day.

lol. You and I both know it'll be Scott Williams.

[Puja]

Yep Solomona and Wade would be interesting. He may have cottoned on that they will need score at least 25-30pts to beat the Kiwis. But as WT says he may just call up Cuthbert so we call all marvel at his positioning and turning speed.

He should use it as an opportunity to call up Ford. The amount of good ball the forwards are winning, they may even score some tries with him at 10.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If Hogg is the player to be replaced, it won't be Ford. I would go for Zebo (OK - Irish bias), who is now great under the high ball, has good distribution skills, speed, and a very positive attitude, and can play wing as readily as FB. I'd have him ahead of Brown (and Jack Nowell!) any day.

I'd forgotten about Zebo - you're right; he is the obvious callup.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Given the number of back three players in the squad, there may be no callup at all. A pity some can't be sent home mid-tour for poor play.

[Lizard]

Being somewhere between North America and Japan might count against Zebo, given that Wales are in NZ and Scotland are just across the ditch.

[Puja]

Being somewhere between North America and Japan might count against Zebo, given that Wales are in NZ and Scotland are just across the ditch.

But Warren's already got three Welsh back three players - if he were to call up Cuthbert, I think there'd be a riot. And Scotland don't have a name that leaps out at you as a potential Lion.

Puja

[Lizard]

True. But flying USA - Japan - NZ in short order might result in Cuthbert like performances from anyone!

[Stom]

Being somewhere between North America and Japan might count against Zebo, given that Wales are in NZ and Scotland are just across the ditch.

But Warren's already got three Welsh back three players - if he were to call up Cuthbert, I think there'd be a riot. And Scotland don't have a name that leaps out at you as a potential Lion.

Puja

Who needs potential Lions when you've got Lion Sean Maitland!

[morepork]

So basically there is the potential for Gatland to make his test side even duller than imagined?

[Cameo]

Don't worry, Maitland is injured. I dont think they really need another fb anyway

[Mellsblue]

I hope they call up Jonny May. It'll make the living with the lions documentary even better.

[skidger]

I hope they call up Jonny May. It'll make the living with the lions documentary even better.

Will any of the other players understand him? I believe only Haskell can communicate with him. Would love to see him in the scrum for the Lions. Its what the tour needs.

[Spiffy]

I hope they call up Jonny May. It'll make the living with the lions documentary even better.

At least Jonny May has real gas, and scored one of the best tries against the AB's in the past three seasons. He could not be worse than Nowell who has now confirmed that he lacks pace, is a poor defender and is short of rugby intelligence, no matter how busy he may look buzzing about the field. When it comes to wings, there is no substitute for out-and-out speed.