RugbyRebels

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Mar 01, 2025 5:22 pm I hate the fallow weeks I'M SO BORED

Is this the last year with two of them?

LongForgotten wrote: ↑Sat Mar 01, 2025 5:43 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Mar 01, 2025 5:22 pm I hate the fallow weeks I'M SO BORED

Is this the last year with two of them?

I hope so. Kills all the momentum of the tournament.

DT reporting that Daly is coming into the side for Marcus.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:17 pm DT reporting that Daly is coming into the side for Marcus.

Pure WTF levels of selection

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:29 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:17 pm DT reporting that Daly is coming into the side for Marcus.

Pure WTF levels of selection

I’d sort of get if it he’d done this a year ago but it feels like a strange time to decide Daly is a fullback option again, much as it suits him more these days.

Not really seeing the Smith at fullback experiment through seems absolutely typical and the worst of both worlds.

Let’s see if it’s true first.

It would be quite bizarre to make Marcus a scapegoat for last week’s poor performance given he was barely used and completely the wrong choice for the BS kick chase game plan.

In other news, this article had some interesting bits in it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 890gdrykro

Sounds as though the scrum coaches ought to have been intervening on the ‘man test’ piece Stuart talks about rather than it being down to Dan Cole to be the voice of reason.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 7:27 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:29 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:17 pm DT reporting that Daly is coming into the side for Marcus.

Pure WTF levels of selection

I’d sort of get if it he’d done this a year ago but it feels like a strange time to decide Daly is a fullback option again, much as it suits him more these days.

Not really seeing the Smith at fullback experiment through seems absolutely typical and the worst of both worlds.

I just feel that if you're going to pin your colours to this mast, you should have a bit more faith in it than six games (I think?) in a player learning the position virtually from scratch at the highest level. If it was shit in game 1 and you sorta knew that then cut it out you knob.

Not calling you a knob MB, obviously

That sounds weirdly passive aggressive doesn't it

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:38 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 7:27 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 6:29 pm

Pure WTF levels of selection

I’d sort of get if it he’d done this a year ago but it feels like a strange time to decide Daly is a fullback option again, much as it suits him more these days.

Not really seeing the Smith at fullback experiment through seems absolutely typical and the worst of both worlds.

I just feel that if you're going to pin your colours to this mast, you should have a bit more faith in it than six games (I think?) in a player learning the position virtually from scratch at the highest level. If it was shit in game 1 and you sorta knew that then cut it out you knob.

Agreed. I'm a big fan of Marcus at 15 and I think, given a bit of time, it'd be his best position at international level, but even if I wasn't, he needs to be given the entirety of the 6N at minimum so we can see if it works or not. Two games is nowhere near enough to declare it a success or a failure and abandoning it now would be nonsensical.

Although I will note we are basing this on Daily Heil speculation and I wouldn't trust them to tell me the eeather outside if they were sitting next to an open window.

Puja

Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality. Marcus's natural game is to try to win by scoring tries. I think he made a big mistake by agreeing to play at FB. IF, IF, Daly starts at 15, Marcus should be back at 10 where he belongs. Should he be dumped to the bench with Fin starting at 10, our strongest attacking player is not on the pitch. That does not bode well for the future, IMO. England under Borthwick are becoming an increasingly ugly watch. The snag for me is not that in itself but that the approach is not getting the best out of the players and the team.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:16 am Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality.

Actually he perfectly suits the Borthwick attacking plan of attack only from first phase or on kick return. Much like Furbank's introduction at 15 added an additional dimension (not helped by Marcus refusing to pass to him all Autumn).

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

Best bet (IMO) is that Marcus at FB releases Silly Bugger from feeling the need for a 2nd distributor in the centres.
Daly in for Slade (probably at 13, with OL to 12); maybe alongside a 5:3 bench.

Richardson gets wind of that, finds it too confusing, and goes to print, desperate to break the story rather than sobering up first.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:52 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:16 am Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality.

Actually he perfectly suits the Borthwick attacking plan of attack only from first phase or on kick return. Much like Furbank's introduction at 15 added an additional dimension (not helped by Marcus refusing to pass to him all Autumn).

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

You seem convinced that Borthwick has an attacking plan. One bludgeoned try against Scotland suggests otherwise. A competent attack coach should top his requirement list.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:11 am Best bet (IMO) is that Marcus at FB releases Silly Bugger from feeling the need for a 2nd distributor in the centres.
Daly in for Slade (probably at 13, with OL to 12); maybe alongside a 5:3 bench.

Richardson gets wind of that, finds it too confusing, and goes to print, desperate to break the story rather than sobering up first.

Not a fan of that tbh, you've got OL completely out of club position (I think he's getting there in terms of mixing it up tween in and out in attack to be fair), Daly in a position he isn't regularly in and has failed at before internationally (v wing, say), and Marcus for all his potential as a line breaking runner at 15, remains....not a full back (yet, possibly).

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:20 amNot a fan of that tbh, you've got OL completely out of club position (I think he's getting there in terms of mixing it up tween in and out in attack to be fair), Daly in a position he isn't regularly in and has failed at before internationally (v wing, say), and Marcus for all his potential as a line breaking runner at 15, remains....not a full back (yet, possibly).

FTR, I'm not suggesting those changes. It's my best bet at explaining Richardson's claims of Marcus dropped, Slade dropped, Daly starts at FB, Chessum dropped etc

What I expect is no changes - or as close to that as injuries allow. Maybe a 5:3 bench to give Dingwall a few seconds.

What I want is an IC to start at IC (Dingwall in pole position) with another centre on the bench (Ojomoh is in pole position), TCurry given a rest, replaced by either CCS or Ted Hill, Earl and Willis given the other backrow spots. 3 backs on the bench.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:22 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:20 amNot a fan of that tbh, you've got OL completely out of club position (I think he's getting there in terms of mixing it up tween in and out in attack to be fair), Daly in a position he isn't regularly in and has failed at before internationally (v wing, say), and Marcus for all his potential as a line breaking runner at 15, remains....not a full back (yet, possibly).

FTR, I'm not suggesting those changes. It's my best bet at explaining Richardson's claims of Marcus dropped, Slade dropped, Daly starts at FB, Chessum dropped etc

What I expect is no changes - or as close to that as injuries allow. Maybe a 5:3 bench to give Dingwall a few seconds.

What I want is an IC to start at IC (Dingwall in pole position) with another centre on the bench (Ojomoh is in pole position), TCurry given a rest, replaced by either CCS or Ted Hill, Earl and Willis given the other backrow spots. 3 backs on the bench.

Gotcha

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:17 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:52 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:16 am Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality.

Actually he perfectly suits the Borthwick attacking plan of attack only from first phase or on kick return. Much like Furbank's introduction at 15 added an additional dimension (not helped by Marcus refusing to pass to him all Autumn).

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

You seem convinced that Borthwick has an attacking plan. One bludgeoned try against Scotland suggests otherwise. A competent attack coach should top his requirement list.

Seven tries across the two games before Scotland though.

Borthwick certainly has an attacking strategy it's just not a very interesting one and I'd like to see an upgrade in attack coach.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:52 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:16 am Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality.

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

Let's hang him George Ford style for a few missed kicks.

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 5:37 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:52 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:16 am Maybe, Marcus at 15 just does not fit Borthwick's 'do our best not to lose' mentality.

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

Let's hang him George Ford style for a few missed kicks.

I'd have kept him at 15, I've been saying for a while we need to bring our fullback more into our attacking game. Fin Smith has come in, played well and taken the shirt. Now Marcus needs to win it back. Competition is good for the squad.

It’s weird though. I’m keen on Fin Smith keeping the 10 shirt for now because it’s probably what’s best for him at the moment, rather than because I think he’s actually been especially good.

To me he’s been a similarly mixed bag in terms of good and bad moments to Marcus at 10, it’s just that a lot of his good moments have been more typically England fly half-y. Kicking crucial points and some good tackles and all that Wilkinson-esque stuff.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:24 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 5:37 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:52 am

Marcus has been meh for the best part of the year at 10, incredible moments whilst failing to control a game with the occasional yips off the tee. He can't complain if Fin takes his spot.

Let's hang him George Ford style for a few missed kicks.

I'd have kept him at 15, I've been saying for a while we need to bring our fullback more into our attacking game. Fin Smith has come in, played well and taken the shirt. Now Marcus needs to win it back. Competition is good for the squad.

"Meh" is a bit of a take when the rest of the squad is horribly misfiring under a very poor coaching team. Marcus was the only creative back we had for quite a few matches.

Fin has had one good half of rugby and nicks it at 10? I don't get it. Pretty annoyed that the FB idea has been benched as well, it stinks of dreadful coaching. Again.

100% agree.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:03 pm It’s weird though. I’m keen on Fin Smith keeping the 10 shirt for now because it’s probably what’s best for him at the moment, rather than because I think he’s actually been especially good.

To me he’s been a similarly mixed bag in terms of good and bad moments to Marcus at 10, it’s just that a lot of his good moments have been more typically England fly half-y. Kicking crucial points and some good tackles and all that Wilkinson-esque stuff.

I think there is a lot of truth here. Potentially, there is more to be gained by giving Fin a run in the shirt, but it’s a very shabby way to treat Marcus.

Wholeheartedly disagree on @FKAS ‘meh’ comment. Marcus was literally the only bright spark we had in a lot of those losses.

Kind of annoying that the like button broke the forum to death cause it was pretty handy

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:45 pm 100% agree.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:03 pm It’s weird though. I’m keen on Fin Smith keeping the 10 shirt for now because it’s probably what’s best for him at the moment, rather than because I think he’s actually been especially good.

To me he’s been a similarly mixed bag in terms of good and bad moments to Marcus at 10, it’s just that a lot of his good moments have been more typically England fly half-y. Kicking crucial points and some good tackles and all that Wilkinson-esque stuff.

I think there is a lot of truth here. Potentially, there is more to be gained by giving Fin a run in the shirt, but it’s a very shabby way to treat Marcus.

Wholeheartedly disagree on @FKAS ‘meh’ comment. Marcus was literally the only bright spark we had in a lot of those losses.

I'd have preferred him to make the rest of the backline shine instead of trying to go himself quite so often.