RugbyRebels

Squad is announced on Thursday.

Anyone expecting any surprises tomorrow? I don’t see any bolters unless Dombrandt or Thorley get called-up as possible apprentices.

I don’t anticipate any major omissions either but I’m expecting recalls for Brown and possibly Cole.

Nah. Really given up on getting excited about England squads. Usual questions remain, how many shit 9s will there be? Will there be any logical balance of locks/blindsides. How many ineffective, journeymen SH players will there be? Etc.

I think it all depends on a few choices...

Who is the backup loosehead? How many locks are picked? What's the balance in the backrow? Do we pick any actually good 9s? Do we pick an extra 10? Who are the next wings in line?

We're not going to see huge changes to the squad as a whole.

Yeah - I feel the same. Not too many variables.

The main questions for me are:

- Who is 3rd choice hooker/2nd choice if Hartley is injured? I’m assuming LCD?
- Who gets the nod out of Moon or Genge?
- Does Cole get a recall ahead of Williams?
- Do we take an extra lock and consider Itoje/Lawes as back row cover
- Will we pick another 7 as back up to Curry?
- Will we gamble on Robshaw being fit?
- Will Robson get a chance or are we going for Wiggy?
- Will we take an extra 10? Basically Cipriani or no Cipriani.
- Will we take another centre or Will Farrell be considered as a 10/12?
- Which wingers will get the call? My money is on Daly, May, Ashton, Nowell and possibly Earle.
- Will Brown get a recall? I hope so ...

Yep, not expecting any surprises

Still wanting:
- Cipriani to become the lynchpin of the back line before the RWC
- Kvesic to be looked at as another option
- A different 9 & 12 (but not sure who would work best)
- England to play 80 minutes of impressive rugby

Renniks wrote:Yep, not expecting any surprises

Still wanting:
- Cipriani to become the lynchpin of the back line before the RWC
- Kvesic to be looked at as another option
- A different 9 & 12 (but not sure who would work best)
- England to play 80 minutes of impressive rugby

Ha. I'm really struggling to decide which of those is the most likely.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Renniks wrote:Yep, not expecting any surprises

Still wanting:
- Cipriani to become the lynchpin of the back line before the RWC
- Kvesic to be looked at as another option
- A different 9 & 12 (but not sure who would work best)
- England to play 80 minutes of impressive rugby

Ha. I'm really struggling to decide which of those is the most likely.

I think the 3rd is most likely, as injury could force it. Because the others are NEVER happening

I just wish I still had faith in Jones to deliver in terms of selection, preparation and inspiration.

I too want to see more consistency and a more complete performance, but not team is good for all 80mins. Even the ABs have spells where they’re second best.

I’d settle for seeing a consistently high level of intensity. Zero talent required to be up for it ...

Really not sure on the back up for Tom Curry. Kvesic deserves to be involved and Ben Curry is an obvious option. My gut feel is that Eddie will pick Robshaw and have him and Wilson covering 7 as well.

Scrumhead wrote:I too want to see more consistency and a more complete performance, but not team is good for all 80mins. Even the ABs have spells where they’re second best.

I’d settle for seeing a consistently high level of intensity. Zero talent required to be up for it ...

Really not sure on the back up for Tom Curry. Kvesic deserves to be involved and Ben Curry is an obvious option. My gut feel is that Eddie will pick Robshaw and have him and Wilson covering 7 as well.

I'd settle for 80 minutes over 3 games right now

Backrow, if we're going with 7 total I'd go with:
Wilson, Robshaw, Hill, Curry, Kvesic, Vunipola, Hughes

I like that selection. I don’t know who I’d prefer out of Hughes or Shields. Neither really floats my boat, but Dombrandt is too much of a gamble IMO. Arguably no more than Hill mind.

Scrumhead wrote:I too want to see more consistency and a more complete performance, but not team is good for all 80mins. Even the ABs have spells where they’re second best.

I’d settle for seeing a consistently high level of intensity. Zero talent required to be up for it ...

Really not sure on the back up for Tom Curry. Kvesic deserves to be involved and Ben Curry is an obvious option. My gut feel is that Eddie will pick Robshaw and have him and Wilson covering 7 as well.

I'm still not over Robshaw playing 7 against Scotland and getting done so badly by Barclay off 1st phase scrum ball

Scrumhead wrote:I like that selection. I don’t know who I’d prefer out of Hughes or Shields. Neither really floats my boat, but Dombrandt is too much of a gamble IMO. Arguably no more than Hill mind.

Yeah, to be fair - Hill is there because I think he's shown nothing but promise and stepped up to every challenge so far…
Dombrandt is looking great and I wouldn't mind him there either.

Injuries to players like Willis and Underhill are forcing a few selections still

Agreed on Hughes - and I was tempted to suggest Mercer instead, but I think that Hughes isn't as bad as I think he is so went with him.

I'd also rather Wilson at 6 and Hughes at 8, than Robshaw at 6 and Wilson at 8… Even though Wilson looked more than competent

Renniks wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I like that selection. I don’t know who I’d prefer out of Hughes or Shields. Neither really floats my boat, but Dombrandt is too much of a gamble IMO. Arguably no more than Hill mind.

Yeah, to be fair - Hill is there because I think he's shown nothing but promise and stepped up to every challenge so far…
Dombrandt is looking great and I wouldn't mind him there either.

Injuries to players like Willis and Underhill are forcing a few selections still

Agreed on Hughes - and I was tempted to suggest Mercer instead, but I think that Hughes isn't as bad as I think he is so went with him.

I'd also rather Wilson at 6 and Hughes at 8, than Robshaw at 6 and Wilson at 8… Even though Wilson looked more than competent

Now there's a statement.

I don't know how anyone could say Wilson's performances at 8 for England haven't been better than Hughes, even if he is better at 6. I'd probably take him ahead of Shields though.

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I too want to see more consistency and a more complete performance, but not team is good for all 80mins. Even the ABs have spells where they’re second best.

I’d settle for seeing a consistently high level of intensity. Zero talent required to be up for it ...

Really not sure on the back up for Tom Curry. Kvesic deserves to be involved and Ben Curry is an obvious option. My gut feel is that Eddie will pick Robshaw and have him and Wilson covering 7 as well.

I'm still not over Robshaw playing 7 against Scotland and getting done so badly by Barclay off 1st phase scrum ball

To be fair, Robshaw/Wilson is a very different proposition to Robshaw/Lawes, especially since I think the latter was with Hughes as well. You're always going to see Robshaw get embarrassed if you pick a team where he's expected to do 100% of the back row work.

Is Robshaw even going to be fit though? When's he due back?

Puja

He’s due back next weekend I think? Possibly even this weekend.

I think we may reintroduce him in the Premiership Cup.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I too want to see more consistency and a more complete performance, but not team is good for all 80mins. Even the ABs have spells where they’re second best.

I’d settle for seeing a consistently high level of intensity. Zero talent required to be up for it ...

Really not sure on the back up for Tom Curry. Kvesic deserves to be involved and Ben Curry is an obvious option. My gut feel is that Eddie will pick Robshaw and have him and Wilson covering 7 as well.

I'm still not over Robshaw playing 7 against Scotland and getting done so badly by Barclay off 1st phase scrum ball

To be fair, Robshaw/Wilson is a very different proposition to Robshaw/Lawes, especially since I think the latter was with Hughes as well. You're always going to see Robshaw get embarrassed if you pick a team where he's expected to do 100% of the back row work.

Is Robshaw even going to be fit though? When's he due back?

Puja

Piffle, it was off first phase from a scrum with Robshaw utterly failing to support a break by Ford, he was totally done over by Barclay and it was nothing to do with his fellow flanker.

There's a case for Robshaw Vs Wilson at 6 with Robshaw having all that experience, there's no case for Robshaw at 7, not when he can be so far off supporting phase 1

I’m a big fan of Robshaw’s but FWIW, I agree. Playing him at 7 is never going to get the best out of him.

Let’s hope Curry stays fit.

I’d prefer Kvesic or Ben Curry as back up but I wouldn’t hate the idea of Ludlam or Ludlow.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
I'm still not over Robshaw playing 7 against Scotland and getting done so badly by Barclay off 1st phase scrum ball

To be fair, Robshaw/Wilson is a very different proposition to Robshaw/Lawes, especially since I think the latter was with Hughes as well. You're always going to see Robshaw get embarrassed if you pick a team where he's expected to do 100% of the back row work.

Is Robshaw even going to be fit though? When's he due back?

Puja

Piffle, it was off first phase from a scrum with Robshaw utterly failing to support a break by Ford, he was totally done over by Barclay and it was nothing to do with his fellow flanker.

There's a case for Robshaw Vs Wilson at 6 with Robshaw having all that experience, there's no case for Robshaw at 7, not when he can be so far off supporting phase 1

I will piffle your piffle and note that if Robshaw's having to do the work of 3 men, he's understandably going to be slower to break off and react.

Mind, I agree with you in general that he shouldn't be at 7. Just being argumentative.

Puja

Look, Eddie has a fascination with the set piece. So whenever possible, we're going to see a jumper at 6. Which means Shields...

Which is insanity.

It's why Hill has been the kid parachuted in, and why Dombrandt does have an outside chance despite his conditioning issues and inexperience.

I would much prefer Wilson, Curry, Billy. I think that is a really nicely balanced backrow.

I think that’s doing a disservice to Hill. He’s a kid who has looked immediately at home at senior level and I fully expect him to be a fixture in the squad for years to come.

There also haven’t been a great deal of English 6s pushing for selection either. I think Don Armand has deserved better treatment from Eddie in the past but he’s looked very ordinary this season. Mike Rhodes is injured (and South African). Dave Ewers is too slow and too injury prone and other outsiders like Jamie Gibson or Mike Williams have been injured or are not currently first choice.

Arguably Tom Ellis and James Chisholm both warrant being in the conversation to some degree, but right now, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Hill and Dombrandt are in as good, if not better form and also look like they have higher ceilings.

Scrumhead wrote:I think that’s doing a disservice to Hill. He’s a kid who has looked immediately at home at senior level and I fully expect him to be a fixture in the squad for years to come.

There also haven’t been a great deal of English 6s pushing for selection either. I think Don Armand has deserved better treatment from Eddie in the past but he’s looked very ordinary this season. Mike Rhodes is injured (and South African). Dave Ewers is too slow and too injury prone and other outsiders like Jamie Gibson or Mike Williams have been injured or are not currently first choice.

Arguably Tom Ellis and James Chisholm both warrant being in the conversation to some degree, but right now, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Hill and Dombrandt are in as good, if not better form and also look like they have higher ceilings.

Oh, sorry, I wasn't dissing Hill. He's looked very good. But, if he was 4 inches shorter, I doubt Eddie would have picked him.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
To be fair, Robshaw/Wilson is a very different proposition to Robshaw/Lawes, especially since I think the latter was with Hughes as well. You're always going to see Robshaw get embarrassed if you pick a team where he's expected to do 100% of the back row work.

Is Robshaw even going to be fit though? When's he due back?

Puja

Piffle, it was off first phase from a scrum with Robshaw utterly failing to support a break by Ford, he was totally done over by Barclay and it was nothing to do with his fellow flanker.

There's a case for Robshaw Vs Wilson at 6 with Robshaw having all that experience, there's no case for Robshaw at 7, not when he can be so far off supporting phase 1

I will piffle your piffle and note that if Robshaw's having to do the work of 3 men, he's understandably going to be slower to break off and react.

Mind, I agree with you in general that he shouldn't be at 7. Just being argumentative.

Puja

Nope, not having it. You don't give up your own scrum ball for free like that, it was jaw droppingly bad

Scrumhead wrote:I think that’s doing a disservice to Hill. He’s a kid who has looked immediately at home at senior level and I fully expect him to be a fixture in the squad for years to come.

There also haven’t been a great deal of English 6s pushing for selection either. I think Don Armand has deserved better treatment from Eddie in the past but he’s looked very ordinary this season. Mike Rhodes is injured (and South African). Dave Ewers is too slow and too injury prone and other outsiders like Jamie Gibson or Mike Williams have been injured or are not currently first choice.

Arguably Tom Ellis and James Chisholm both warrant being in the conversation to some degree, but right now, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Hill and Dombrandt are in as good, if not better form and also look like they have higher ceilings.

The 'higher ceiling' aspect is where I feel Jones's prowess is flawed. If a player has clear 'ceiling' issues you either don't pick him (Shields) or drop him regardless of short-term problems (Youngs, Care), especially if you have 4 years to build as Jones did.