Team for Italy

[Mikey Brown]

So, Mallinder in as coach? Is Mallet still about?

In the space of an hour this has gone from mocking Oakboy to being completely sincere.

[fivepointer]

Thats quite a shake up - at least in the pack.

Horribly tough on Lawrence. A few other backs might have got the heave-ho but have been given a chance to redeem themselves.

Bench will be itching to make a mark, though i am no fan of the 6:2 split.

[fivepointer]

Who is Ollie Lawrence? The fall guy.

[Oakboy]

Gets dropped because Baby Faz wouldn't pass to him.

It's a bit like the mob - once you're a made man, you're untouchable. Must be so depressing to be a talented, young English player right now.

It makes Redpath's decision to go north look very wise!

[Mellsblue]

Ah, well. Part of me is hoping we lose.

[Oakboy]

Typical. We have more outstanding flankers than we know what to do with, yet Courtney f*cking Lawes at 6 is the answer to a defeat.

Puja

Puja, are you going to keep both threads?

[Shiny]

This Eddie is not for turning.

The Fazbot lives......................

[Mikey Brown]

Should have dropped Slade and kept Lawrence if we want a good flyhalf as well as Farrell.

Or better still dropped Daly too and had Slade/Malins as 15/23.

[Oakboy]

Ah, well. Part of me is hoping we lose.

Agreed. My alternative - vibes for some strategic injuries (three) - falls apart with a 6:2 split. Malins at 10, Earl at 12 perhaps???

[Puja]

Typical. We have more outstanding flankers than we know what to do with, yet Courtney f*cking Lawes at 6 is the answer to a defeat.

Puja

Puja, are you going to keep both threads?

Have merged.

Mod

[Oakboy]

Should have dropped Slade and kept Lawrence if we want a good flyhalf as well as Farrell.

Or better still dropped Daly too and had Slade/Malins as 15/23.

WE don't!

[francoisfou]

Ah, well. Part of me is hoping we lose.

A feckin big part !!!

[Raggs]

We're looking to dominate the set piece against Italy, kicking to touch a lot. And that'll prove everything is OK.

[Stom]

lol again.

I mean, there'll be a big difference because Ford is there and, well, he's actually good. And then he'll look for runners and he'll have the choice of 2 props, Billy and, er...

Well, it's insane.

You take out one of our few strike runners, who didn't see any ball, and then take out a potential carrying threat and replace him with a lock, and then give the carriers in the pack more work to do because you've replaced a hard working flanker with a lock, and then you expect anything other than crap?

I don't get what he wants to do, that's the problem... I mean, with Ford at 10, we can execute his gameplan with precision. But to what effect?

[Oakboy]

So, Mallinder in as coach? Is Mallet still about?

In the space of an hour this has gone from mocking Oakboy to being completely sincere.

Mock away. Incidentally, out of interest, I thought I'd work out Jones's win percentages if all matches up to and including the defeat to Ireland in March 2017 are ignored. I make it 67% (29 out of 43). By all means check my figures.

[Oakboy]

lol again.

I mean, there'll be a big difference because Ford is there and, well, he's actually good. And then he'll look for runners and he'll have the choice of 2 props, Billy and, er...

Well, it's insane.

You take out one of our few strike runners, who didn't see any ball, and then take out a potential carrying threat and replace him with a lock, and then give the carriers in the pack more work to do because you've replaced a hard working flanker with a lock, and then you expect anything other than crap?

I don't get what he wants to do, that's the problem... I mean, with Ford at 10, we can execute his gameplan with precision. But to what effect?

One wonders what the medium/long term plan can possibly be. Maybe, not losing to Italy has adopted huge proportions or something. IMO, picking a team to not lose to Italy, rather than one to win comprehensively, is the ultimate insult to the watching public.

[Gloskarlos]

Good grief. Typical feckin Eddie.

This’ll be a kick to corner rolling maul fest with Lawes and extra jumping option. So one dimensional. Was hoping to see Randall and Idogwu on the bench at least for this game.

[jngf]

15. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 48 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 47 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 35 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (C) (Saracens, 89 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 62 caps)
10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 73 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 105 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 40 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 44 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 86 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 29 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 57 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Jamie George (Saracens, 55 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 24 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 9 caps)
21. Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)
22. Dan Robson (Wasps, 8 caps)
23. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 4 caps)

Infuriatingly predictable of Jones - keeps the two underperforming back rows and drops Wilson who was the only effective member of it against Scotland. Looks like Billy (and Curry) are undroppable in Jones’ scheme of things which should frankly piss off those who have missed out. What’s even worse is Eddie will claim some sort of vindication if England win against Italy and I’m tempted to give this match a miss tbh....

[jngf]

Meg-mercenary?

Would you?

If you were in your 60s, and had a job worth £400-450k per year, and 2 years left on your contract - would you walk away from that, probably into retirement, for "the greater good" of a country you have no allegiance to, and who wouldn't actually be in a better position without you (in your opinion)

I think Jones believes he is doing a good job but is starting to have doubts - did you see his facial expression and body language at pitchside midway through the 2nd half? I really don't care if he demands all his contract money. I was reacting to MB's question of whether the RFU can afford to buy him out.

So far in his career he has usually run out of steam and been replaced. He still might talk a good job but he is 'results or nothing'. In the press today he is quoted as saying, 'I always pick the best 23.' That was in defence of questions about dropping Farrell. You might believe in his chances of success with long-term planning. I don't. To me, that is just spin to try to cover his failings since being so demonstrably out-coached by the SA HC.

Honestly, I think that one of the worst things about losing to Scotland was adding fuel to your bonfire.

Let’s look at the actual facts.

Eddie’s win rate is 78%. Better than any other England coach and only bettered by NZ in the same period. How can you honestly say there are any reasonable grounds to sack him if there’s not another coach in test rugby with that win %?

Are we getting the most out of our player pool? Absolutely not. Do I like the way we’re playing at the moment? No. In fact, I can’t stand it and I have spent the majority of the time I’ve spent watching England recently shouting at the TV in frustration. BUT, I do back Eddie to get us back to playing well again and I don’t honestly believe there is a better alternative out there right now.

I also don’t believe we were ‘out-coached’ in the RWC final. We were certainly out-performed. We simply did not show up and while Eddie is ultimately accountable, I think the bottle job was on the pitch. Rassie Erasmus had one gameplan SA used in every game. He’s not a tactical genius. They were simply a lot better than we were on the day.

As for Farrell, I’m not (and never have been a fan), but Eddie Jones clearly isn’t the only one to think he is ‘World Class’. Over the past 5 or 6 years, the conventional wisdom was that Farrell was England’s talisman and the one of the best 10s in World Rugby. That came from a plethora of coaches and players around the world - not just journalists.

Eddie’s also right about a ‘bandwagon’. Yesterday Farrell was routinely lauded by the media. Now, it’s become fashionable to call for him to be dropped. Most of us here never felt the praise was justified, it’s just that the media have now caught on to the fact that he’s not the messiah.

Scrumhead this is forensic analysis but to me it could be summarised as seeing a silk purse where there is really a pigs ear

[Raggs]

I swear I don't watch the same games as you do when it comes to backrows jngf. I'll agree Wilson went well, but the suggestion Curry didn't...

[FKAS]

Yah another unbalanced backline we know doesn't work. Rather than give any of the talented young backrows a go we get another lock shoved in there and a lock so far removed from modern international standards it's no longer a joke on the bench. No alternative centre so we change the balance in the backline in no way during the game.

I'm so annoyed by this rank selection I might actually support Italy at the weekend.

Best we can hope for is that Farrell or Slade has to pull out before the game and Lawrence or Odogwu can come in and give Ford something to work with.

[Peej]

I'm just amazed that he dropped Wilson and included Willis. But wow, I think this is pretty poor really. But we'll win against Italy, and therefore it'll be "ship righted, carry on with more of the same."

Odogwu and Randall, even in a reduced squad of 28, just there to make up numbers.

[jngf]

I swear I don't watch the same games as you do when it comes to backrows jngf. I'll agree Wilson went well, but the suggestion Curry didn't...

Curry was completely outplayed by his opposite number can’t see how you missed this tbh

[jngf]

Also notice that Jones has stopped giving video interviews on RFU website and instead text quotes are being displayed - has he been getting tips from Dominic Cummings?

[WaspInWales]

15. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 48 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 47 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 35 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (C) (Saracens, 89 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 62 caps)
10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 73 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 105 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 40 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 44 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 86 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 29 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 57 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Jamie George (Saracens, 55 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 24 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 9 caps)
21. Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)
22. Dan Robson (Wasps, 8 caps)
23. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 4 caps)

Good team, but I'd start George. Only other changes I would make is to make the bench an 8/0 split. Then haul Ford off so Farrell can shift back to his world class position with Willis going to 12 to give a bit of power to the midfield.

So glad Eddie had the balls to drop Lawrence. That's a sign of great leadership. Lawrence didn't touch the ball for about an hour against Scotland. You can't avoid the ball for that long in test rugby and expect to get away with it.