RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote:If the Baby Boks had someone that could kick the scoreline would have looked a closer reflection of the game.

England need to shift Ilione to 8 and put on another openside. The English defence lacked organisation and was over reliant on Ilione turnovers to stem the flow of the Bok attack (the Boks 9 looked a talent). English attack looked alright but the handling was awful. We twice threw forward passes unnecessarily when accurate passes would have resulted in tries.

The one from Ma'asi White wouldn't have been called forward if the tackle hadn't stopped his momentum I reckon. It only looked forward because he got stopped and could keep running. Was actually fairly impressed with his handling overall. Thought 10, 11 and 15 looked decent, but kicking was atrocious. We created a lot, especially early on, just didn't feel any sort of gel between the players.

Raggs wrote:

FKAS wrote:If the Baby Boks had someone that could kick the scoreline would have looked a closer reflection of the game.

England need to shift Ilione to 8 and put on another openside. The English defence lacked organisation and was over reliant on Ilione turnovers to stem the flow of the Bok attack (the Boks 9 looked a talent). English attack looked alright but the handling was awful. We twice threw forward passes unnecessarily when accurate passes would have resulted in tries.

The one from Ma'asi White wouldn't have been called forward if the tackle hadn't stopped his momentum I reckon. It only looked forward because he got stopped and could keep running. Was actually fairly impressed with his handling overall. Thought 10, 11 and 15 looked decent, but kicking was atrocious. We created a lot, especially early on, just didn't feel any sort of gel between the players.

Yeah the coaching staff might regret chopping and changing so many between the Six Nations and Summer Whatever the Hell This Is. There was definitely a disjointed, just met in the carpark, look about the England team. In commentary it was mentioned the Baby Boks hadn't played together for a while but it certainly didn't show.

Ma'asi White looked alright, little bit quiet. Would have liked to see him impose himself a little more on the game, he was a bit quiet. Grayson was also very quiet at 13 having been such a significant fixture in our attack during the JN6.

Think there was actually quite a lot wrong about this performance. Started up front with a shaky set piece - the l/o in particular was awful - and then worked its way throughout the team, both in attack and defence.
We've used a lot of players and dont seem to have improved one jot since the 6N's. I'm not altogether sure Dickens & Co know what they're doing to be frank
Next up is France, then Ireland.
Lets hope for some development.

fivepointer wrote:Think there was actually quite a lot wrong about this performance. Started up front with a shaky set piece - the l/o in particular was awful - and then worked its way throughout the team, both in attack and defence.
We've used a lot of players and dont seem to have improved one jot since the 6N's. I'm not altogether sure Dickens & Co know what they're doing to be frank
Next up is France, then Ireland.
Lets hope for some development.

The lineout was weird because it started off well enough. Funnily enough the throw it high to the 6ft9 jumper tactic worked. Then the hooker seemed to get the yips and it all went to hell and never recovered. Shame because the rolling maul got us some joy.

Team for France (tomorrow 4pm)

15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. Ollie Fletcher, Newcastle Falcons
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Toby Knight, Saracens

Replacements

16. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish
19. Charlie Rice, Bristol Bears
20. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints
21. Lucas Brooke, London Irish
22. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby
23. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
26. Sam Harris, Bath Rugby

Good to see Mini-Fletch get a start.

Good to get a win, dramatic match.

Ewan Richards scoring two quick tries in the first half when France had a yellow card. Two disallowed tries for France.

Hendy & Carr-Smith sent to the bin with the score at 22-20. More cards with a yellow for France and a red for Bristol prop Turner meaning England were down to a dozen. Jed Walsh came off the bench to score a late try to put the game out of reach. Sounds like they really battled

RSA are looking a bit tasty

Walsh came on for the hobbling Fin Smith who seemed to be in discomfort for most the game. Then Carr-Smith got binned for slapping the ball dead and conceded a penalty try. Probably did England a favour as he was again dreadful and Walsh playing 9 and 10 made a better fist of it. Harris off the bench looked handy playing off Walsh and did some of the kicking.

Hendy was lucky not to see red. He was so upright in the tackle he would have been happy to hear the ref say the word mitigation.

France flipped between the sublime and ridiculous phase to phase and England made a catalogue of handling errors, the England centre combination in particular will be feeling disappointed to not have made more their opportunities. Good result for England against a talented French team though.

Have to say I was quite pleased with Maasi White again. Whenever I watched him in the championship games that I could get a hold of, he disappointed. But he's showing up quite well in these.

Raggs wrote:Have to say I was quite pleased with Maasi White again. Whenever I watched him in the championship games that I could get a hold of, he disappointed. But he's showing up quite well in these.

Other than having hands like feet, yes. He's a big bloke but I'd like to see him impose himself on the opposition a little bit more. A bloke of his size and speed should be drawing the opposition defence and creating space but it isn't really happening. He does look like a player that could be polished up to Prem quality in a couple of years though.

Havent seen the whole game but our final try scored by Walsh was just about the best bit of rugby i've seen this group put together.

FKAS wrote:

Raggs wrote:Have to say I was quite pleased with Maasi White again. Whenever I watched him in the championship games that I could get a hold of, he disappointed. But he's showing up quite well in these.

Other than having hands like feet, yes. He's a big bloke but I'd like to see him impose himself on the opposition a little bit more. A bloke of his size and speed should be drawing the opposition defence and creating space but it isn't really happening. He does look like a player that could be polished up to Prem quality in a couple of years though.

It was a pretty nice offload for a try. Not complete feet on his arms.

FKAS wrote:Walsh came on for the hobbling Fin Smith who seemed to be in discomfort for most the game.

Yeah Smith didn't look 100% but he's starting again today.
In fact not much rotation, only a couple of changes from the last game.

15. George Hendy
14. Iwan Stephens
13. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White
12. Ethan Grayson
11. Alex Harmes
10. Fin Smith
9. Charlie Bracken

1. Tumy Onasanya
2. Ollie Fletcher
3. Jevaughn Warren
4. Ewan Richards
5. Lewis Chessum
6. Ethan Staddon
7. Emeka Ilione (C)
8. Toby Knight

16. John Stewart
17. Archie McArthur
18. Mikey Summerfield
19. Charlie Rice
20. Chandler Cunningham-South
21. Greg Fisilau
22. Lucas Brooke
23. Tom Carr-Smith
24. Jed Walsh
25. Tom Litchfield
26. Sam Harris

Kick-off against Ireland is 7pm.

Damn, ended up losing a ten try game by a solitary point. Haven't watched it yet but sounds entertaining.

Started with two tries in the first few minutes but Ireland replied with scores of their own to lead by nine at the interval. England managed to get back into the lead however Ireland ended up kicking the winning penalty with a couple of minutes left. There was still time left to batter away at their five metre line but Cunningham-South (who had a shocker apparently) knocked it on.

Defence was pretty horrendous it seems.

Some proper dodgy refereeing in that match. Eng defence was pretty iffy particularly around the 10/12 channel. Outscored Ireland 6 tries to 4 but lost due to missed kicks and far too many soft penalties.

Ilione and Cunningham South were both poor overall. Done really poor tackling across the team. Felt that should have been a solid win, not a close loss.

Ilione I thought made a couple big turnovers. (Although I feel his best position will be 6 or 8 unless he changes up his style to be a bit faster around the pitch).

It's not that big a bumper crop year on the whole on a couple players impressed in the 6N's and so far in this competition. (Also hardly any rotation which IMO is a bit odd given it's only the U20#s and not even a world cup)

Don't know how well coached they are yopu wouldn't get Fin Smith was getting calls for England senior squad potentially based on this comp

Agree on the coaching, I think England are behind intentionally at age grade compared to other nations - Wales in particular (would have hoped by u20 that would have disappeared though) Through U14 to U18 the emphasis coming from the academies and the representation path is on freedom of individual play, very little in terms of team cohesion and tactics. Very little in terms of set piece. There are benefits to this perhaps, but it shows considerably when we play other nations.

This group has some talent but all season they have failed to put together a truly emphatic 80 minute performance. Some bits work sometimes, some bits dont. Occasionally a player shines, next time out they become anonymous. There seems to be a real lack of concentration and sensible game management. They're young but frankly you'd hope for a bit more from them.

I thought the England forwards looked exhausted after the first 10 mins. Little rotation, short turnarounds and hot conditions taking their toll.

I think Ilione might be a bit of a 7/8 option at Tigers going forward. A pre season with Walters should see him up his speed around the pitch a bit though he is a menace in defence and does make good decisions at the breakdown.

Final game tomorrow at 5pm against Italy. Lets hope we can finish on a bit of a high, though Italy are proving tough competitors at this level.

15. Sam Harris
14. Iwan Stephens
13. Rekeiti Ma'asi-White
12. Ethan Grayson
11. George Hendy
10. Fin Smith
9. Tom Carr Smith
1. Tumy Onasanya
2. Ollie Fletcher
3. Jevaughn Warren
4. Charlie Rice
5. Lewis Chessum
6. Emeka Ilione (C)
7. Lucas Brooke
8. Toby Knight

Replacements
16. John Stewart
17. Andrew Turner
18. Mike Summerfield
19. Ewan Richards
20. Tom Lockett
21. Greg Fisilau
22. Ethan Staddon
23. Chandler Cunningham-South
24. Charlie Bracken
25. Tom Litchfield
26. Alex Harmes

We lost 31-38. No complaints, Italy were the better side.

Its not been a great season for this group.

Pretty mediocre fare in all honesty. Without Ilione winning turnovers we’d have lost a lot more heavily in a few of these games. 3 wins from 9 has got to be one of the worst u20 seasons for ages (ever?).

Won a GS last year so guess need to hold off judgement. Another poor season next year and might need to look at the setup? Hopefully no deeper issues in the pathway?