RugbyRebels

Blamire is probably out next most capped hooker after George so it makes sense that Borthwick has kept working on him. I think he's got the potential to be the go to England option at hooker after the world cup if Borthwick can work his magic on the somewhat iffy throwing in. He's certainly mobile, physical and decent enough at scrum time.

Dan I presume is there for experience, Walker is a solid option to have in the squad. Is McGuigan still in there?

I'm worried that Mako isn't fit and is still in there, I can somehow envisage VRR playing well in the friendlies but then getting dropped out of the final squad for Mako. Hopefully the Borthinator won't go full Eddie like that.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:36 pm I think Eddie is a good coach, I think he's bought to much into the "saving it for the world cup" plan though. Sure it's nice to have a couple of tricks up your sleeve but to have the whole game plan up there and not bringing out before hand is ridiculous. He needs to stop believing his own myth. Momentum going in to a world cup is a very useful thing.

I think he used to be. Past his sell by date, a lot go on too long.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:22 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:36 pm I think Eddie is a good coach, I think he's bought to much into the "saving it for the world cup" plan though. Sure it's nice to have a couple of tricks up your sleeve but to have the whole game plan up there and not bringing out before hand is ridiculous. He needs to stop believing his own myth. Momentum going in to a world cup is a very useful thing.

I think he used to be. Past his sell by date, a lot go on too long.

Possibly. Has had a pretty long career though so he's managed to reimagine his style before and adapt. Be interesting to see whether he can do again. Just happy not to be wondering that as an England fan.

As a big Guy Porter fan here's one borrowed from the offy forum for you.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:44 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:22 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:36 pm I think Eddie is a good coach, I think he's bought to much into the "saving it for the world cup" plan though. Sure it's nice to have a couple of tricks up your sleeve but to have the whole game plan up there and not bringing out before hand is ridiculous. He needs to stop believing his own myth. Momentum going in to a world cup is a very useful thing.

I think he used to be. Past his sell by date, a lot go on too long.

Possibly. Has had a pretty long career though so he's managed to reimagine his style before and adapt. Be interesting to see whether he can do again. Just happy not to be wondering that as an England fan.

As a big Guy Porter fan here's one borrowed from the offy forum for you.

I'd rather have Cole than Guy.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:53 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:44 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:22 am

I think he used to be. Past his sell by date, a lot go on too long.

Possibly. Has had a pretty long career though so he's managed to reimagine his style before and adapt. Be interesting to see whether he can do again. Just happy not to be wondering that as an England fan.

As a big Guy Porter fan here's one borrowed from the offy forum for you.

I'd rather have Cole than Guy.

To conduct affairs?

These highlights videos are really getting out of control.

VRR and Murley out. That's disappointing.

FFS.

Bevan Rodd is back in though, I wonder if VRR is injured?

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:25 pm VRR and Murley out. That's disappointing.

I knew there was someone missing, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Weird that it wasn't mentioned in any of the press releases.

Puja

Right. I’m supporting Australia.

Blandy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:15 pm Bevan Rodd is back in though, I wonder if VRR is injured?

Odd this. Maybe VRR injured, though there's no mention of it. No mention either of Mako so possibly he's been cut. Chessum and Walker still rehabbing.

First warm up game less than 2 weeks away so minds will really start to be focused.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:38 am

Blandy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:15 pm Bevan Rodd is back in though, I wonder if VRR is injured?

Odd this. Maybe VRR injured, though there's no mention of it. No mention either of Mako so possibly he's been cut. Chessum and Walker still rehabbing.

First warm up game less than 2 weeks away so minds will really start to be focused.

DT says Mako remains with Saracens for treatment on a back injury.

I can see a Ludlam, J Willis & Billy backrow as covering all bases.
Though I am a fan of the flair and pace Dombrandt brings, so horses for courses

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:52 pm I can see a Ludlam, J Willis & Billy backrow as covering all bases.
Though I am a fan of the flair and pace Dombrandt brings, so horses for courses

Tom Curry will start if fit.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:11 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:52 pm I can see a Ludlam, J Willis & Billy backrow as covering all bases.
Though I am a fan of the flair and pace Dombrandt brings, so horses for courses

Tom Curry will start if fit.

Don’t do this to yourself again.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:11 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:52 pm I can see a Ludlam, J Willis & Billy backrow as covering all bases.
Though I am a fan of the flair and pace Dombrandt brings, so horses for courses

Tom Curry will start if fit.

At 6 or 8?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:57 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:11 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:52 pm I can see a Ludlam, J Willis & Billy backrow as covering all bases.
Though I am a fan of the flair and pace Dombrandt brings, so horses for courses

Tom Curry will start if fit.

At 6 or 8?

and 7

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:13 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:57 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:11 pm

Tom Curry will start if fit.

At 6 or 8?

and 7

He’s good but he can’t cover two positions at once

Where are we with numbers? I lose track. How many will be dumped to get to the final 33?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:22 pm Where are we with numbers? I lose track. How many will be dumped to get to the final 33?

22 (or 25 if you count Mako, Walker, and Chessum) forwards and 18 backs. If we're assuming that he's taking 18 forwards and 15 backs to make up his 33, then it's 4 (or 7) forwards to go and 3 backs.

Puja

In fact, let's do this again

Forwards (22 (+3 injured))

Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 48 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 79 caps)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
- Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 79 caps) INJURED

Jamie George (Saracens, 77 caps)
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
Theo Dan (Saracens, uncapped)
- Jack Walker (Harlequins, 3 caps) INJURED

Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 61 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 25 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 100 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 67 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
- Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps) INJURED

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 97 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 45 caps)
Jack Willis (Toulouse, 10 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 19 caps)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 15 caps)

Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 14 caps)
Tom Willis (Bordeaux Bègles, uncapped)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 68 caps)

Backs (18)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 122 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 12 caps)
Danny Care (Harlequins, 87 caps)

Owen Farrell (Saracens, 106 caps)
George Ford (Sale Sharks, 81 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 21 caps)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 15 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 51 caps)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 56 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)

Anthony Watson (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
Henry Arundell (London Irish, 7 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 57 caps)
Max Malins (Saracens, 18 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 72 caps)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)


For my opinion, I'd say we need 3 of each front row and probably only 4 locks (if Lawes is there to cover in extremis), which makes room for 5 back row. As such, I'd drop Mako, Walker, Ribbans (if Chessum's fit, otherwise Chessum), Earl, and then a straight shootout between Ludlam/Pearson/Dombrandt/Willis/BillyV based on camp form to get the last two places on the plane.

For the backs, it seems more straightforward - drop Porter, Malins, and probably Marcus Smith (on the basis that we don't need 3 specialist 10s). There is an argument for losing another winger and keeping another back row, but I don't know who that would be - possibly May/Cokanasiga, but it will depend on what they've been doing in camp.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:19 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:13 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:57 pm

At 6 or 8?

and 7

He’s good but he can’t cover two positions at once

I was thinking 3...

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:02 pm For my opinion, I'd say we need 3 of each front row and probably only 4 locks (if Lawes is there to cover in extremis), which makes room for 5 back row. As such, I'd drop Mako, Walker, Ribbans (if Chessum's fit, otherwise Chessum), Earl, and then a straight shootout between Ludlam/Pearson/Dombrandt/Willis/BillyV based on camp form to get the last two places on the plane.

For the backs, it seems more straightforward - drop Porter, Malins, and probably Marcus Smith (on the basis that we don't need 3 specialist 10s). There is an argument for losing another winger and keeping another back row, but I don't know who that would be - possibly May/Cokanasiga, but it will depend on what they've been doing in camp.

Puja

Camp performance must be crucial at this point. Looking at your lists, I'd doubt that Malins will be discarded based on recent selections.

I'd not take Coka, Tuilagi or Billy V because I think all three represent a battering-ram fetish that none can satisfy any more, even if there was an argument for them in the past. In the current scene pace and versatility just seem more important.

The No 8 position is probably the most critical of the camp rating positions. I could understand Billy V being retained if Willis and Dombrandt have not impressed. I'd not have Earl any higher than you in the flankers' list but I suppose he could offer No 8 back-up, just like Curry.

I don't like the SH line-up.

It's going to be fascinating.