England vs Fiji - Sat 3.15pm

[Danno]

Not sure an argument about Jonny May gets anywhere near being the top of the issues to solve.

I’m almost feeling sorry for Slightly Banjaxed.

Feel sorry for him!!!! Hell, our territory stats are set to rocket

Ideally we'll be able to do something with the territory this time.

Yes. We will kick it away.

[p/d]

Sinkler out with a chest knack now. Very quickly going from crisis to farce.

In an unrelated point, we've joked about it for years, but the Boks have pushed the button and gone 7 1 split on the bench tonight. They've smashed the AB pack all over the place, and are only 14 nil up because they're weirdly copying our grubbers first policy in the AB 22.

They are some units that SA side.

They’re gonna take some stopping.

Their set piece and sheer physicality was another level. Made the AB’s look average.
Wonder if we would have the balls to move Arundell to centre

[Beasties]

They are some units that SA side.

They’re gonna take some stopping.

New Zealand were awful. If they play like that against France (who've got some units of their own) then the record defeat they've just suffered will be bettered in short order. Looks like they were copying the English discipline policy. Mo'unga was lucky his tackle on Andre E wasn't reviewed otherwise could have been four yellows in the first half.

It’s easy to say one team were awful (and I’m not arguing any different) but when a team like SA impose themselves on you like that there is little that can be done. They absolutely strangled everything NZ had to offer. Barrett is a moron. Must have English ancestry?

[Banquo]

They are some units that SA side.

They’re gonna take some stopping.

New Zealand were awful. If they play like that against France (who've got some units of their own) then the record defeat they've just suffered will be bettered in short order. Looks like they were copying the English discipline policy. Mo'unga was lucky his tackle on Andre E wasn't reviewed otherwise could have been four yellows in the first half.

The Boks intensity was something else though. Don't often see a kiwi side totally collapse under pressure; was like the 2019 RWC times 2.

[Scrumhead]

They’re gonna take some stopping.

New Zealand were awful. If they play like that against France (who've got some units of their own) then the record defeat they've just suffered will be bettered in short order. Looks like they were copying the English discipline policy. Mo'unga was lucky his tackle on Andre E wasn't reviewed otherwise could have been four yellows in the first half.

It’s easy to say one team were awful (and I’m not arguing any different) but when a team like SA impose themselves on you like that there is little that can be done. They absolutely strangled everything NZ had to offer. Barrett is a moron. Must have English ancestry?

I’m amazed Barrett’s tucked arm on Marx wasn’t upgraded to a red. A clear and deliberate cheap shot.

[Mikey Brown]

They are some units that SA side.

They’re gonna take some stopping.

Their set piece and sheer physicality was another level. Made the AB’s look average.
Wonder if we would have the balls to move Arundell to centre

What problem would that be solving?

[Skalyba]

I've lost all faith - it was shaky before but picking May and Coke just shows how poor SB is. We can't buy a try in our backs and rather than go for fresh, in form, talent he brings in 35 year old May.

He has wasted an absolute golden opportunity with this world cup to build a new team - it doesn't matter if the new players aren't better than the old, they just (hopefully bring a better attitude). He should have binned Marler, Cole, Sinckler, Lawes, Vunipola, Youngs, Care, Ford or Farrell, Tuilagi, May, Daly, Watson. I've probably missed a couple but are those players really so much better than VRR, Willis, Mercer, Pearson, Mitchell, Murley, Freeman, Roebuck etc that it's worth keeping them on?

I don't get the disdain for May - he's our second top try-scorer ever, he's elusive, he's still very quick, he's improved continually over his career and is probably one of our most secure players under a high ball, and one of our best positionally. He's also only 33, so neither "35 year old" nor utterly decrepit.

I also note you've suggested binning Cole and Sinckler without any suggestions of the young players to bring in.

Puja

Come on Puja one friendly before the world cup is definitely the time to ditch as many experienced players as possible and select as many youngsters with potential as possible. Unless they are solid players like Steward in which case drop them for the next mercurial youngster as well. Young and attacking potential are the only criteria we need.

I'd also suggest at only 30 and having looked more than decent off the bench Vs Ireland booting Sinckler now would be ridiculous. No age at all for a tighthead and with a couple of Lions tours under his belt plus 60 odd caps he's the type of experienced player we need in the squad. I'm hoping his injury isn't serious.

This WC is a write off, do you really think a team stuffed with the same old players is going to get any different result to bringing in the next generation. SB had 3 months and 9 games (assuming e make the quarter final) to bed in a new team and he's wated it by picking the same team, with the same tactics as Jones. Maybe there's not a direct replacement for Sinckler for example -= so leave him there but as the exception rather than the rule

[Skalyba]

I don't get the disdain for May - he's our second top try-scorer ever, he's elusive, he's still very quick, he's improved continually over his career and is probably one of our most secure players under a high ball, and one of our best positionally. He's also only 33, so neither "35 year old" nor utterly decrepit.

I also note you've suggested binning Cole and Sinckler without any suggestions of the young players to bring in.

Puja

May's past it and there are other options, notably Murley who seems to have been badly done to along with Freeman.

Given our lack of options at TH, having Cole in the squad is perfectly sensible.

See, this confuses me. He was doing a good job for England as recently as November, then had a long term injury, that kept him out most of the season, and while he's been gone, his rep on here appears to have morphed in Nowell 2.0 - any selection of him is greeted with "Oh for fuck's sake!"

Puja

May's good, but is he so much better than Murley (or the other hopefuls) that he should be picked over them despite a poor season? They are the future, give them a chance

[Puja]

May's past it and there are other options, notably Murley who seems to have been badly done to along with Freeman.

Given our lack of options at TH, having Cole in the squad is perfectly sensible.

See, this confuses me. He was doing a good job for England as recently as November, then had a long term injury, that kept him out most of the season, and while he's been gone, his rep on here appears to have morphed in Nowell 2.0 - any selection of him is greeted with "Oh for fuck's sake!"

Puja

May's good, but is he so much better than Murley (or the other hopefuls) that he should be picked over them despite a poor season? They are the future, give them a chance

What poor season!? He was injured for most of it and then scored 3 tries in his last three games!

Granted, I am a big Murley fan and would like to have seen him involved (in the 6N, by preference), but I don't think parachuting him in will solve any problems or provide any particular benefit. The RWC is not the time to be dumping players in because "they are the future" - it's the time to be picking the present and trying to do as well as we can so that we don't go out in the group again and end up styming the game in this country and crippling several careers from being part of a colossal failure.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I don't get the disdain for May - he's our second top try-scorer ever, he's elusive, he's still very quick, he's improved continually over his career and is probably one of our most secure players under a high ball, and one of our best positionally. He's also only 33, so neither "35 year old" nor utterly decrepit.

I also note you've suggested binning Cole and Sinckler without any suggestions of the young players to bring in.

Puja

Come on Puja one friendly before the world cup is definitely the time to ditch as many experienced players as possible and select as many youngsters with potential as possible. Unless they are solid players like Steward in which case drop them for the next mercurial youngster as well. Young and attacking potential are the only criteria we need.

I'd also suggest at only 30 and having looked more than decent off the bench Vs Ireland booting Sinckler now would be ridiculous. No age at all for a tighthead and with a couple of Lions tours under his belt plus 60 odd caps he's the type of experienced player we need in the squad. I'm hoping his injury isn't serious.

This WC is a write off, do you really think a team stuffed with the same old players is going to get any different result to bringing in the next generation. SB had 3 months and 9 games (assuming e make the quarter final) to bed in a new team and he's wated it by picking the same team, with the same tactics as Jones. Maybe there's not a direct replacement for Sinckler for example -= so leave him there but as the exception rather than the rule

I think you are right about the players in that they have proven time and again that they can't do it. However, none of us know, based on this forum's info anyway, whether SB was given instructions for short-term/ long-term. For example, he may have been told to get the best results he could at the RWC, delaying a rebuild till afterwards. He may have had no restrictions and decided the strategy for himself. Either way we are stuck with a group of repeated failures for the RWC.

There was a half-way house in that he could have picked none of Billy V, Tuilagi, Youngs or Care. He could also have been more ruthless with injured players.

All the reports that I have read say that he has until the 28th to finalise his squad of 33. No restrictions on his capacity to adjust apply that I have seen.

I think SB has been disappointing so far but he has to be granted some slack at least until this afternoon's game is over and the squad deadline is past.

Somebody already mentioned 'I would not start from here' and that is so true. I said at the start of the 6N that T Willis was better than Dombrandt, for example, but I can understand SB's stance. I would not have had any of the four above anywhere near the 33 and I would have had a deadline for fitness at the start of the warm-ups. To that extent, SB has made a rod for his own back it appears but a thumping win this afternoon and 2 or 3 sensible changes to the 33 could give some grounds for optimism.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Joe Heyes has been called into the wider squad as potential cover for Sinkler

[Oakboy]

SB, in interview, has just said that it is extraordinary how many attacking coaches England have had in recent years. Significant?

[Mikey Brown]

In what sense? Making excuses about what a shambles our attack is? I’ve stopped listening to Borthwick already.

[Danno]

Bloody over-the-hill Jonny May going and scoring like he's still got it.

[Mr Mwenda]

Still rather toothless in attack with a lot of ball and territory.

Of course the moment Fiji have the ball in attack England concede a penalty.

[Mr Mwenda]

Most handling errors ever?

[Oakboy]

England are lucky to be leading. What else is there to say?

[16th man]

I'm increasingly tempted to start singling Earl out as the poster boy for English Rugby's Gym Monkey tendencies

[Mr Mwenda]

England are lucky to be leading. What else is there to say?

You spoke too soon.

Utterly terrible start to the second half.

[16th man]

May both manages to get completely skinned, and fall over in the way of Lawrence to take away any chance he had. Not sparkling.

[16th man]

Jesus wept. How many 1 out runners, before a shit grubber attempt?

[Mellsblue]

Jesus wept. How many 1 out runners, before a shit grubber attempt?

Ford needed to demand that a lot earlier before it all inevitably slowed down, assuming he’s allowed to…

[Danno]

England are lucky to be leading. What else is there to say?

Very lucky. I would have given the first Fiji try simply because nothing else good has happened in Twickenham in 6 months

Mitchell and Ford look good.
Tuilagi and Lawrence, fed by Ford, had a couple of great plays
Chessum is everywhere
Steward is having a shocker
Cole is Cole and should be given his slippers and a pipe
Theo Dan is going to be some player in a year or two
We can't even take advantage of 15v14
Everyone else seems a bit anonymous, not seeing much from the backrow
Our (lack of) physicality is stark

[Danno]

Christ, it's come to something when they're resorting to Wonderwall to create some atmosphere

[Mr Mwenda]

Jesus wept. How many 1 out runners, before a shit grubber attempt?

As soon as the ruck speed slowed England had no plan. Considering how often that occurs you'd think they would have some idea of what to do.