RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:47 am

Charlatan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:44 am Agree with the general puzzlement over some of the key selection calls, particularly considering it’s against Italy at home - tho I will say I’ve had a mild premonition since the start of the tournament we are going to contrive to lose this game…

Italy will beat England one day. Fans need to be ready for it. They've been robbed a few times and I think they are acutely aware that it is just England and nz's scalps they lack so I think they often try things v England. However, the fact that it is HQ calms me somewhat. If it were Rome this year I'd expect to see them targeting this game.

Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

So quite like us, if you left out the middle sentence.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 12:44 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:47 am

Italy will beat England one day. Fans need to be ready for it. They've been robbed a few times and I think they are acutely aware that it is just England and nz's scalps they lack so I think they often try things v England. However, the fact that it is HQ calms me somewhat. If it were Rome this year I'd expect to see them targeting this game.

Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

So quite like us, if you left out the middle sentence.

chunky old if, tho

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:47 am

Charlatan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:44 am Agree with the general puzzlement over some of the key selection calls, particularly considering it’s against Italy at home - tho I will say I’ve had a mild premonition since the start of the tournament we are going to contrive to lose this game…

Italy will beat England one day. Fans need to be ready for it. They've been robbed a few times and I think they are acutely aware that it is just England and nz's scalps they lack so I think they often try things v England. However, the fact that it is HQ calms me somewhat. If it were Rome this year I'd expect to see them targeting this game.

Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

Might defensive, safety-first, kicking-dominated tactics be offering Italy their best chance? They dislike being run ragged but like lots of possession.

To my mind we should never really be going for safety first tactics at home, let alone against a team we’ve never lost to.

That’s not intended to be disrespectful to Italy (who are much improved and have a huge point to prove after the last round), but this is simply not a game where we should be going out to contain the opposition.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:00 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:47 am

Italy will beat England one day. Fans need to be ready for it. They've been robbed a few times and I think they are acutely aware that it is just England and nz's scalps they lack so I think they often try things v England. However, the fact that it is HQ calms me somewhat. If it were Rome this year I'd expect to see them targeting this game.

Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

Might defensive, safety-first, kicking-dominated tactics be offering Italy their best chance? They dislike being run ragged but like lots of possession.

Tight defence but run at them

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:08 pm To my mind we should never really be going for safety first tactics at home, let alone against a team we’ve never lost to.

That’s not intended to be disrespectful to Italy (who are much improved and have a huge point to prove after the last round), but this is simply not a game where we should be going out to contain the opposition.

...tbh, trying to beat any of the top sides through just 'containment', is folly. Sure, a strong defence and excellent kick chase are basic pre-requisites, but you have to score tries to beat the best, generally. I know Stevie Boy is a horses for courses guy, with a core of get out of our half, but as per BOD's comments, that leads to a side with no clear identity and that's confusing for players tbh.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:00 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:47 am

Italy will beat England one day. Fans need to be ready for it. They've been robbed a few times and I think they are acutely aware that it is just England and nz's scalps they lack so I think they often try things v England. However, the fact that it is HQ calms me somewhat. If it were Rome this year I'd expect to see them targeting this game.

Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

Might defensive, safety-first, kicking-dominated tactics be offering Italy their best chance? They dislike being run ragged but like lots of possession.

Would agree with that. If we treat them as peers and go toe-to-toe with them, then they stand a chance of beating us. Our best chance is to treat them with disdain and impose ourselves on them.

That's not sarcasm, btw.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:16 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:00 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:55 am
Agreed, they are a handy team if you give them any space or momentum. Centres are quality, and in the side overall handling and seeing space are top notch. However, they can be ripped open too.

Might defensive, safety-first, kicking-dominated tactics be offering Italy their best chance? They dislike being run ragged but like lots of possession.

Would agree with that. If we treat them as peers and go toe-to-toe with them, then they stand a chance of beating us. Our best chance is to treat them with disdain and impose ourselves on them.

That's not sarcasm, btw.

Puja

frankly, that's the only way you are getting to the very top/beating the best teams consistently (sure they might have a bad day if we try to contain an play no 'positive' rugby). Imposing yourself doesn't necessarily mean beating them up, or playing a wide game, but forcing them into a way they don't want to play, say.

I’m (unfortunately not) surprised at the conservatism in selecting back 5 of the pack, particularly backrow. We all know what T Curry, T Willis and Earl bring to the party and another chance goes begging to develop a strength in depth back row like 6 Hill 8 CCS and 7 B Curry. We could have left he former trio fresh for Wales and given some more of the squad more starting test experience. The argument is made that we could come 2nd in the championship by fielding the 1stXV backrow - well so what?, we can’t win the championship now and we can’t win the Triple Crown so why not use the opportunity to embellish the overall squad’s experience with some structured rotation?

Willis needs to start this game.

Agree resting T Curry, but again I think of him as a player who gets better by playing.

Though do want to see us use the bench so we can get the others on the park

This is about winning now not chasing a title.

The backs are a far bigger problem

Wtf does he know. No mention of resting Curry and Earl

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

If we do indeed have a “Manu” why isn’t he being picked by Swansea Busstop?

jngf wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:38 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

If we do indeed have a “Manu” why isn’t he being picked by Swansea Busstop?

He was saying its Lawrence iirc

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:17 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:38 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

If we do indeed have a “Manu” why isn’t he being picked by Swansea Busstop?

He was saying its Lawrence iirc

So who was Jedi?

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:18 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:17 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:38 pm

If we do indeed have a “Manu” why isn’t he being picked by Swansea Busstop?

He was saying its Lawrence iirc

So who was Jedi?

dingers

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:25 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 10:12 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 10:07 am

Do you not think that our tactics of JUST kicking it up in the air make it easy for teams to do that?

Fear of losing Dors. Hopefully Dingwall possesses no kicking game whatsoever

He's got a good line in chips and grubbers unfortunately...

They could prove to be useful alternatives to the constant ploy of kicking the ball high into the air and chasing it.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 5:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:25 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 10:12 am

Fear of losing Dors. Hopefully Dingwall possesses no kicking game whatsoever

He's got a good line in chips and grubbers unfortunately...

They could prove to be useful alternatives to the constant ploy of kicking the ball high into the air and chasing it.

Hey, I'll have you know we've grubbered plenty of ball away as well.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

That is the most coherent I've ever heard Greenwood be when offering punditry! TikTok is clearly his most suited medium.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 6:07 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

That is the most coherent I've ever heard Greenwood be when offering punditry! TikTok is clearly his most suited medium.

Puja

And he nose it

Ten of the starting XV have over 20 caps and Freeman has 18. It’s not exactly a young / newbie team. 8 of them have 30 caps plus. And of those between Mitchell is 27 and Chessum 24 (age not caps).

And we’ve dropped Slade who has 69 caps.

This whole ‘new England’ / ‘young side’ kind of irks me.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:02 pm Ten of the starting XV have over 20 caps and Freeman has 18. It’s not exactly a young / newbie team. 8 of them have 30 caps plus. And of those between Mitchell is 27 and Chessum 24.

And we’ve dropped Slade who has 69 caps.

This whole ‘new England’ / ‘young side’ kind of irks me.

The age/cap profile of the squad seems a reasonable balance. Something like a third at one RWC, a third at two and a third at three is about right, arguably, at any time.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 7:01 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 6:07 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 3:16 pm

That is the most coherent I've ever heard Greenwood be when offering punditry! TikTok is clearly his most suited medium.

Puja

And he nose it

He didn't look like conking out at all ..
' The Golden Boy's got 23 on his back..' -
Not heard that for a few years.
' Eight tries - minimum!' .. : 5 or 6 mebiz.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:02 pm Ten of the starting XV have over 20 caps and Freeman has 18. It’s not exactly a young / newbie team. 8 of them have 30 caps plus. And of those between Mitchell is 27 and Chessum 24.

And we’ve dropped Slade who has 69 caps.

This whole ‘new England’ / ‘young side’ kind of irks me.

This.

Also in 4 games we have made unforced changes at hooker, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 (3rd person now been given a go).

Not sure what to read into that but a betting man would wager changes v Wales

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 9:40 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:02 pm Ten of the starting XV have over 20 caps and Freeman has 18. It’s not exactly a young / newbie team. 8 of them have 30 caps plus. And of those between Mitchell is 27 and Chessum 24.

And we’ve dropped Slade who has 69 caps.

This whole ‘new England’ / ‘young side’ kind of irks me.

This.

Also in 4 games we have made unforced changes at hooker, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 (3rd person now been given a go).

Not sure what to read into that but a betting man would wager changes v Wales

If we are confused, what about the players?