Re: Blairites staging a coup...
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:45 pm
"Ecb baking us..." Ha! That's a great typo, I'm leaving it in
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
I think there's wriggle room to use sterling on a (very) interim basis providing everyone was confident the move to the Euro was assured. It'd be a non starter in the event of an unclear or drawn out processDonny osmond wrote: With our economics being what they are, we'd need a lender of last resort, so sterlingisation wouldn't be an option. Either as you say, join the euro and have the ecb baking us, or do what JPMorgan predict and launch a Scottish currency...
http://www.scotsman.com/news/jp-morgan- ... -1-4164909
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
Donny osmond wrote:
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
Yeah... I couldn't really wrap my head around seeing passionate Indy supporters becoming passionate union supporters. There are explanations out there, but they go down some dark paths that I don't really want to (re)visit.Digby wrote:Donny osmond wrote:
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's one of the oddities. Many Brexiters being in favour of keeping the UK union, many Scottish nationalists wanting independence but also to keep the European union. Both agreeing there needs to be more indpendence and a retention of union, and both disagreeing so vehemently about it at the same time.
They disenfranchise themselves because THEY CAN'T BE FUCKING ARSED TO VOTE. I'm still fucking furious that the youth of this country can't be assed to turn up and vote in a referendum that affects them much more than anyone else. If you want to have a voice THEN VOTE. If you don't want to be ignored THEN VOTE. If you don't vote then why the fuck would anyone listen to a word you say.jared_7 wrote:The youth are disenfranchised because they feel their lives are screwed, in many ways by generations who like to call them "yoofs" and "delusional about how democracy works" and how they need to just "get a job" and "work hard, like my generation did".gthedog wrote:My take is Labour still don't get it and they are going to be smashed at the next election with UKIP making massive further gains in Labour heartlands
The party will be people like Hammy who were right on in their day and a bunch of shouty lefty yoofs who are also right on but don't understand what democracy is
I met such a yoof the other month in the boozer. He was delusional in the machinations of how the world and democracy work but ultimately he was boring. Boring in his capacity to understand and boring in his wish to be governed by crazies
They may not go about it the right way, but they have a right to be aggrieved at housing prices over 10x the average income, student debt and costs of education at levels never seen before, food banks bursting at the seems and on top of that, oh yeah the environment's screwed. All at a time when they get told we are richer than we have ever been.
The problem is they don't feel they have a voice. Jeremy Corbyn was that voice, but all they now see is him being ousted by a bunch of MPs who want more of the status quo they feel is hurting them.
This is not me offering an answer, I don't know what it is. But just as the oldies have copped an unfair amount of criticism over Brexit, the "Yoof" cop a lot of unfair flak for simply wanting change.
quiteEugene Wrayburn wrote:They disenfranchise themselves because THEY CAN'T BE FUCKING ARSED TO VOTE. I'm still fucking furious that the youth of this country can't be assed to turn up and vote in a referendum that affects them much more than anyone else. If you want to have a voice THEN VOTE. If you don't want to be ignored THEN VOTE. If you don't vote then why the fuck would anyone listen to a word you say.jared_7 wrote:The youth are disenfranchised because they feel their lives are screwed, in many ways by generations who like to call them "yoofs" and "delusional about how democracy works" and how they need to just "get a job" and "work hard, like my generation did".gthedog wrote:My take is Labour still don't get it and they are going to be smashed at the next election with UKIP making massive further gains in Labour heartlands
The party will be people like Hammy who were right on in their day and a bunch of shouty lefty yoofs who are also right on but don't understand what democracy is
I met such a yoof the other month in the boozer. He was delusional in the machinations of how the world and democracy work but ultimately he was boring. Boring in his capacity to understand and boring in his wish to be governed by crazies
They may not go about it the right way, but they have a right to be aggrieved at housing prices over 10x the average income, student debt and costs of education at levels never seen before, food banks bursting at the seems and on top of that, oh yeah the environment's screwed. All at a time when they get told we are richer than we have ever been.
The problem is they don't feel they have a voice. Jeremy Corbyn was that voice, but all they now see is him being ousted by a bunch of MPs who want more of the status quo they feel is hurting them.
This is not me offering an answer, I don't know what it is. But just as the oldies have copped an unfair amount of criticism over Brexit, the "Yoof" cop a lot of unfair flak for simply wanting change.
It's a fair and reasonable pointEugene Wrayburn wrote:They disenfranchise themselves because THEY CAN'T BE FUCKING ARSED TO VOTE. I'm still fucking furious that the youth of this country can't be assed to turn up and vote in a referendum that affects them much more than anyone else. If you want to have a voice THEN VOTE. If you don't want to be ignored THEN VOTE. If you don't vote then why the fuck would anyone listen to a word you say.jared_7 wrote:The youth are disenfranchised because they feel their lives are screwed, in many ways by generations who like to call them "yoofs" and "delusional about how democracy works" and how they need to just "get a job" and "work hard, like my generation did".gthedog wrote:My take is Labour still don't get it and they are going to be smashed at the next election with UKIP making massive further gains in Labour heartlands
The party will be people like Hammy who were right on in their day and a bunch of shouty lefty yoofs who are also right on but don't understand what democracy is
I met such a yoof the other month in the boozer. He was delusional in the machinations of how the world and democracy work but ultimately he was boring. Boring in his capacity to understand and boring in his wish to be governed by crazies
They may not go about it the right way, but they have a right to be aggrieved at housing prices over 10x the average income, student debt and costs of education at levels never seen before, food banks bursting at the seems and on top of that, oh yeah the environment's screwed. All at a time when they get told we are richer than we have ever been.
The problem is they don't feel they have a voice. Jeremy Corbyn was that voice, but all they now see is him being ousted by a bunch of MPs who want more of the status quo they feel is hurting them.
This is not me offering an answer, I don't know what it is. But just as the oldies have copped an unfair amount of criticism over Brexit, the "Yoof" cop a lot of unfair flak for simply wanting change.
Yep. My mother had felt quite guilty at the thought that her generation had overruled the wishes of the younger generation. When I showed her the turnout based on age bands that guilt diminished a fair bit.Eugene Wrayburn wrote:They disenfranchise themselves because THEY CAN'T BE FUCKING ARSED TO VOTE. I'm still fucking furious that the youth of this country can't be assed to turn up and vote in a referendum that affects them much more than anyone else. If you want to have a voice THEN VOTE. If you don't want to be ignored THEN VOTE. If you don't vote then why the fuck would anyone listen to a word you say.jared_7 wrote:The youth are disenfranchised because they feel their lives are screwed, in many ways by generations who like to call them "yoofs" and "delusional about how democracy works" and how they need to just "get a job" and "work hard, like my generation did".gthedog wrote:My take is Labour still don't get it and they are going to be smashed at the next election with UKIP making massive further gains in Labour heartlands
The party will be people like Hammy who were right on in their day and a bunch of shouty lefty yoofs who are also right on but don't understand what democracy is
I met such a yoof the other month in the boozer. He was delusional in the machinations of how the world and democracy work but ultimately he was boring. Boring in his capacity to understand and boring in his wish to be governed by crazies
They may not go about it the right way, but they have a right to be aggrieved at housing prices over 10x the average income, student debt and costs of education at levels never seen before, food banks bursting at the seems and on top of that, oh yeah the environment's screwed. All at a time when they get told we are richer than we have ever been.
The problem is they don't feel they have a voice. Jeremy Corbyn was that voice, but all they now see is him being ousted by a bunch of MPs who want more of the status quo they feel is hurting them.
This is not me offering an answer, I don't know what it is. But just as the oldies have copped an unfair amount of criticism over Brexit, the "Yoof" cop a lot of unfair flak for simply wanting change.
We may need a Scotland indy fred. Although there are only about 6 cats in here, so might be an idea to just hash it out here.Donny osmond wrote:Yeah... I couldn't really wrap my head around seeing passionate Indy supporters becoming passionate union supporters. There are explanations out there, but they go down some dark paths that I don't really want to (re)visit.Digby wrote:Donny osmond wrote:
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's one of the oddities. Many Brexiters being in favour of keeping the UK union, many Scottish nationalists wanting independence but also to keep the European union. Both agreeing there needs to be more indpendence and a retention of union, and both disagreeing so vehemently about it at the same time.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
It's really really not. It's only "well fucked" if you ignore revenue that HMRC don't currently class as being Scottish but rather as national assets. Primarily Oil and Whisky, but also natural energy sources which are growing. Scotland would benefit from immigration, but most economies do.Donny osmond wrote:Scotland's economy is well fucked, deficit to debt ratio far worse than Greece's ever was. To get the EU to agree to take us in would eclipse all the tasks of Hercules.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
Don't do yourself down, I totally get your argument, its a powerful one and its floating around my head too. There's no denying the EU and UK are obviously different beasts, but that doesn't mean the reasons for being involved in those unions are necessarily different.Edinburgh in Exile wrote:We may need a Scotland indy fred. Although there are only about 6 cats in here, so might be an idea to just hash it out here.Donny osmond wrote:Yeah... I couldn't really wrap my head around seeing passionate Indy supporters becoming passionate union supporters. There are explanations out there, but they go down some dark paths that I don't really want to (re)visit.Digby wrote:
It's one of the oddities. Many Brexiters being in favour of keeping the UK union, many Scottish nationalists wanting independence but also to keep the European union. Both agreeing there needs to be more indpendence and a retention of union, and both disagreeing so vehemently about it at the same time.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
On your point above Donny. I'm one of them. Although, Id argue I'd always been a supporter of the EU, instead of becoming one. I see The United Kingdom and the European Union as two entirely different beasts.
There is a huge amount of grey area in my politics, I don't see it as a binary choice, it isn't "Dislike this Union, dislike all unions".
I am the direct opposition to the Brexiter who wants Scotland to remain in the UK. These are, after all, the cats that voted out of the European Union because (amongst many other reasons) they didn't like the idea of an bunch of people they didn't vote for or elect having a say in their countries affairs. I'd argue that when 74% of my town, and 62% of my country voting to remain, I have the same grievance in a more tangible way.
As flippantly as I can put it, I think it's a crying shame that Britain is on the brink of pulling out of Europe because the ruling party... that holds a staggering total of one Scottish seat in Westminster wanted to settle an internal shitfight, and subsequently made an arse of it.
Ah fuck it, I'm all over the place with this argument, and I'm not going near the economics of it, thats for far smarter minds than my simple one. I'm also willing to accept that Scotland simply may not be able afford independence, or the EU might just tell us to get fucked.
It really really is, at least according to the GERS figures that the Scottish govt (not HMRC) produces, and that the SNP used as the foundation of their White Paper.BigAl wrote:It's really really not. It's only "well fucked" if you ignore revenue that HMRC don't currently class as being Scottish but rather as national assets. Primarily Oil and Whisky, but also natural energy sources which are growing. Scotland would benefit from immigration, but most economies do.Donny osmond wrote:Scotland's economy is well fucked, deficit to debt ratio far worse than Greece's ever was. To get the EU to agree to take us in would eclipse all the tasks of Hercules.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
The Spanish PM is himself suffering a bit of a problem right now with a separatist movement and his own voters so I'd tend to discount anything he says.
Unless they use Sterling for a while like Panama (I think) uses the dollar.Banquo wrote:just tippex UK out and insert Scotland seems to be Nicola's plan. There would need to be an actual Bank of Scotland I assume.Sandydragon wrote:Spain are opposed to it as well. So Scotland would have to become independent, then apply. Which would take time one assumes (probably not as much as for some given previous integration) and they would need to adopt the Euro, whilst running some temporary solution after leave the UK.Donny osmond wrote:And now Hollande is being quoted on twitter as saying there'll be no separate discussions with Scotland.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
I wonder how tempted the Scottish unlicensed will be once everyone calms down?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After days of reading whinging on Facebook over how the old people screwed them over, I find out the, u surprising, fact that younger voters didn't show up. Are they stupid enough to think a like on Facebook counts instead? Pathetic.Eugene Wrayburn wrote:They disenfranchise themselves because THEY CAN'T BE FUCKING ARSED TO VOTE. I'm still fucking furious that the youth of this country can't be assed to turn up and vote in a referendum that affects them much more than anyone else. If you want to have a voice THEN VOTE. If you don't want to be ignored THEN VOTE. If you don't vote then why the fuck would anyone listen to a word you say.jared_7 wrote:The youth are disenfranchised because they feel their lives are screwed, in many ways by generations who like to call them "yoofs" and "delusional about how democracy works" and how they need to just "get a job" and "work hard, like my generation did".gthedog wrote:My take is Labour still don't get it and they are going to be smashed at the next election with UKIP making massive further gains in Labour heartlands
The party will be people like Hammy who were right on in their day and a bunch of shouty lefty yoofs who are also right on but don't understand what democracy is
I met such a yoof the other month in the boozer. He was delusional in the machinations of how the world and democracy work but ultimately he was boring. Boring in his capacity to understand and boring in his wish to be governed by crazies
They may not go about it the right way, but they have a right to be aggrieved at housing prices over 10x the average income, student debt and costs of education at levels never seen before, food banks bursting at the seems and on top of that, oh yeah the environment's screwed. All at a time when they get told we are richer than we have ever been.
The problem is they don't feel they have a voice. Jeremy Corbyn was that voice, but all they now see is him being ousted by a bunch of MPs who want more of the status quo they feel is hurting them.
This is not me offering an answer, I don't know what it is. But just as the oldies have copped an unfair amount of criticism over Brexit, the "Yoof" cop a lot of unfair flak for simply wanting change.
Donny osmond wrote:Scotland's economy is well fucked, deficit to debt ratio far worse than Greece's ever was. To get the EU to agree to take us in would eclipse all the tasks of Hercules.
Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk
and South Cambridgeshire #justsayingLizard wrote:Scotland, London and NI just need to figure out a way to eject the rest of England and Wales from the UK, and then carry on as an EU member together. Simple.
I just don't see how Nicola can avoid 'having' to go for independence and then take turn in the queue to get into Europe...anyone know anything different? Quite a conundrum, as pretty sure the former is a shoo-in as of today? ...but the latter could take a fair while- what could she offer as a bribe?Stones of granite wrote:I was quite interested in this paragraph from a Guardian article this morning.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ittle-hope
Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of gaining support for her bid to keep Scotland in the European Union despite the UK’s vote to leave have been dealt a blow after the Spanish prime minister warned: “If the United Kingdom leaves … Scotland leaves.”
It seems that the Spanish Prime Minister is willing to pay to pay of the price his fishermen being excluded from British fishing waters - most of which lie inside what would be Scottish fishing waters - in order to wave a matter of principle at his Catalonian opponents.
This lady seems to think it would be easy enough for Scotland to take on the UKs position in the EU and have England be the one that 'leaves' ...Banquo wrote:I just don't see how Nicola can avoid 'having' to go for independence and then take turn in the queue to get into Europe...anyone know anything different? Quite a conundrum, as pretty sure the former is a shoo-in as of today? ...but the latter could take a fair while- what could she offer as a bribe?Stones of granite wrote:I was quite interested in this paragraph from a Guardian article this morning.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ittle-hope
Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of gaining support for her bid to keep Scotland in the European Union despite the UK’s vote to leave have been dealt a blow after the Spanish prime minister warned: “If the United Kingdom leaves … Scotland leaves.”
It seems that the Spanish Prime Minister is willing to pay to pay of the price his fishermen being excluded from British fishing waters - most of which lie inside what would be Scottish fishing waters - in order to wave a matter of principle at his Catalonian opponents.
Does anyone have an issue with this quote? Is it incorrect?Modern antisemitism may not always be about overt violence and persecution, though there is too much of that even to this day. We must also be vigilant against subtler and invidious manifestations of this nasty ancient hatred and avoid slipping into its traps by accident or intent, our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.
Cheers, Fella. Sums it all up rather well.UGagain wrote: http://medialens.org/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=248