RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote: Its a weird story.

Today seems to be the day for it. This one isn’t as weird as an alleged mercenary coup in Venezuela by an American private security contractor but it’s still bizarre enough for the times.

Certainly doesn’t help government credibility at this time.

Like the Scottish CMO he's a prat and he had to resign from SAGE. I'm not entirely sure releasing the name of his partner via the media was warranted, but I suppose you could argue anyone breaking the rules around isolation is fair game. That said this is seemingly a month old as a story, so why he couldn't step back on the quiet and why the story was given to the media I don't know, is this the new strategy to deflect blame for other failings in government? Will Boris offer up his own infidelities for gossip?

It would be interesting to know how this got into the media. Sounds like his mistress wasn't exactly discrete about all this, or equally No 10 could have leaked it to start the scapegoating process.

Banquo wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Banquo wrote: So Balloux is talking bollocks?

Someone had to say it.

well yes, but its also a question.

It's not ballix, but it is quite overstated. It's not particularly comprehensive from a population standpoint and is really data mining a very finite number of samples. You'd get clearer virulance indicators starting with animal studies and cross referencing antigenic drift in large clusters around the world.

morepork wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: Someone had to say it.

well yes, but its also a question.

It's not ballix, but it is quite overstated. It's not particularly comprehensive from a population standpoint and is really data mining a very finite number of samples. You'd get clearer virulance indicators starting with animal studies and cross referencing antigenic drift in large clusters around the world.

so what possesses a prof from hardly an insignificant institution to go all Twittery? Rhetorical question tbh.

Yeah, it's not really appropriate behavior with that platform being highly susceptible to anecdotal bullshit.

Lockdown not exactly going well then. Then again, having been to Addenbrookes, I'm not surprised. Coffee shop open, people sitting at tables, not socially distanced, groups of people, possibly staff standing in corridors in big groups chatting with coffee.
Walking this afternoon with Mrs B, gangs of lads and lasses in the local rec with their bikes sitting round in groups.

Should we be surprised that infection continues to spread? It's going to be a long flattening of the curve at this rate.

No answers, just observations. This in an area with as yet lowish rates of infection, and considered to be compliant.

morepork wrote:Yeah, it's not really appropriate behavior with that platform being highly susceptible to anecdotal bullshit.

Damn straight. I think it would be better if people who one would normally deem to be worth listening to stayed off that pile of festering sh8t. Orange cockwomble can have it all to himself!

Banquo wrote:Lockdown not exactly going well then. Then again, having been to Addenbrookes, I'm not surprised. Coffee shop open, people sitting at tables, not socially distanced, groups of people, possibly staff standing in corridors in big groups chatting with coffee.
Walking this afternoon with Mrs B, gangs of lads and lasses in the local rec with their bikes sitting round in groups.

Should we be surprised that infection continues to spread? It's going to be a long flattening of the curve at this rate.

No answers, just observations. This in an area with as yet lowish rates of infection, and considered to be compliant.

Yup. I’m waiting for the surge when controls get relaxed on Tuesday and for them to be reintroduced at some point when it all goes wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -standards

Now I might just be projecting, but the 400,000 PPE gowns that were arriving Sunday, no, Monday, make that Wednesday, well a few of them on Wednesday some will be longer.... They are all being sent back as they are not of UK standard.

I haven’t heard that the ones being made in the UK by companies the government wouldn’t call back have been having problems in the countries that did buy them. I guess that’s because UK manufacturers tend to work to UK and EU standards.

But now is not the time for criticism right?

canta_brian wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -standards

Now I might just be projecting, but the 400,000 PPE gowns that were arriving Sunday, no, Monday, make that Wednesday, well a few of them on Wednesday some will be longer.... They are all being sent back as they are not of UK standard.

I haven’t heard that the ones being made in the UK by companies the government wouldn’t call back have been having problems in the countries that did buy them. I guess that’s because UK manufacturers tend to work to UK and EU standards.

But now is not the time for criticism right?

Incompetence abounds.

I don't know if it's clear if they're going back and if we're getting any reimbursement

Digby wrote:I don't know if it's clear if they're going back and if we're getting any reimbursement

Yes to both according to the article in the Guardian and DHSC quotes, but that's to be expected.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:I don't know if it's clear if they're going back and if we're getting any reimbursement

Yes to both according to the article in the Guardian and DHSC quotes, but that's to be expected.

I heard no about 15 minutes ago, or at least not sure. Whether that's to do with the contract in question, future supplies from Turkey or even the same specific supplier, the logistics of returning rather than destruction of product already here. It'll be up for discussion, and this time they might care to wait until it's a done thing before painting themselves as hostages to fortune

It’s interesting that, despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage. This is all despite unprecedented international demand, a market in which countries such as France and the US requisitioned supplies within their borders from private companies and the govt sending a bucket load of PPE to China when COVID first hit there. It hasn’t been perfect, how could it be in such circumstances, but the govt and NHS have done a pretty good job on PPE, distribution issues notwithstanding. Of course, that doesn’t make for a good headline, a good click through rate or good viewing figures.
Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

At the point where there have been shortages I can't see the point in saying there haven't been shortages, indeed there still are shortages. Whether trying to label those shortages as localised, ignoring we shifted positions on how long some items could be worn and even how often, that those same items have been in even shorter supply in local care for whether for care workers, cleaners, that care homes are badly exposed. And then we've had deaths outside the care system, bus drivers and the like where PPE wasn't in place

We have dropped the ball, even if we've dropped the ball under intense pressure in a howling gale with torrential rain. Okay we've also worked very hard to reorganise our collation and distribution, to source new suppliers, we've had communities rallying around, some of the suppliers have gone to fantastic efforts to increase their production, there've been some amazing donations made. Still, saying there haven't been shortages sounds like little more than an offer to fellate Matt Hancock

Put another way, Chris Robshaw always worked hard, but the lack of game reading and technical expertise doesn't go away just because you're trying hard

I’m confused. Who has said there haven’t been shortages?

"despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage."

you in this instance, unless you're hanging your hat on the caveat of a 'small number of localised problems'

Digby wrote:"despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage."

you in this instance, unless you're hanging your hat on the caveat of a 'small number of localised problems'

Is it impossible to expect that there won't be some localised small scale problems with an effort like this set up so quickly? We seem to expect perfection from people working under pressure, which is bonkers. The military often brings clarity to problems like this, but anyone who has served will tell you that supply issues happen even when processes are robust.

Digby wrote:"despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage."

you in this instance, unless you're hanging your hat on the caveat of a 'small number of localised problems'

Well, I wrote the caveat for a reason; so, yes, I’ll hang my hat on it. Best to take a sentence/paragraph/post as a whole when interpreting it rather than cherry pick.
If I really want to double down, then localised shortages have been primarily/solely (who on here knows!?!?) down to hospitals hoarding and poor NHS distribution.
Pointing out that there is plenty to criticise on but this may not be the angle to go at seems a strange way of trying to fellate someone.

Mellsblue wrote:Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

If you're so forgiving as to think PPE isn't an area to criticise the government, it's difficult to see what you'd hold them to account for.

Mellsblue wrote:It’s interesting that, despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage. This is all despite unprecedented international demand, a market in which countries such as France and the US requisitioned supplies within their borders from private companies and the govt sending a bucket load of PPE to China when COVID first hit there. It hasn’t been perfect, how could it be in such circumstances, but the govt and NHS have done a pretty good job on PPE, distribution issues notwithstanding. Of course, that doesn’t make for a good headline, a good click through rate or good viewing figures.
Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

As opposed to announcing a delivery of 400,000 gowns on the same day an order was placed. Of which only a fraction were initially delivered and which turned out to be not fit for purpose. And making the announcement despite being told by the DHSC not to. That wasn’t at all headline grabbing click bait sort of stuff. At least the guardian article is based in fact.

Mells, your cheerleading for this government has become crass. The BMA has suggested 50% of doctors have had to source their own PPE. That is not a few localised problems.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

If you're so forgiving as to think PPE isn't an area to criticise the government, it's difficult to see what you'd hold them to account for.

Despite being only interested in precise truths, I’m sure you’ll be able to extrapolate.

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

If you're so forgiving as to think PPE isn't an area to criticise the government, it's difficult to see what you'd hold them to account for.

Despite being only interested in precise truths, I’m sure you’ll be able to extrapolate.

Of course your precise truths are based on a complete dataset. It’s not like you have ignored reports like the BMA one I mentioned above.

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:It’s interesting that, despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage. This is all despite unprecedented international demand, a market in which countries such as France and the US requisitioned supplies within their borders from private companies and the govt sending a bucket load of PPE to China when COVID first hit there. It hasn’t been perfect, how could it be in such circumstances, but the govt and NHS have done a pretty good job on PPE, distribution issues notwithstanding. Of course, that doesn’t make for a good headline, a good click through rate or good viewing figures.
Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

As opposed to announcing a delivery of 400,000 gowns on the same day an order was placed. Of which only a fraction were initially delivered and which turned out to be not fit for purpose. And making the announcement despite being told by the DHSC not to. That wasn’t at all headline grabbing click bait sort of stuff. At least the guardian article is based in fact.

Mells, your cheerleading for this government has become crass. The BMA has suggested 50% of doctors have had to source their own PPE. That is not a few localised problems.

I’m on record on this very thread being critical of the govt messaging at times. I can see things from both sides despite having an obvious bias towards the Conservatives, though this govt is the reason my Con membership was not renewed. In fact, in my first post this morning I put “Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt”. That doesn’t speak of crass cheerleading but, given you think The Times are plotting to replace Boris with Gove, I’ll take your accusation with a pinch of salt.
The BMA gave their own figures, other sources gave others. Truth be told, from what I’ve read, the major issue is hospitals hoarding kit and a NHS run distribution system that wasn’t fit for purpose.

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: If you're so forgiving as to think PPE isn't an area to criticise the government, it's difficult to see what you'd hold them to account for.

Despite being only interested in precise truths, I’m sure you’ll be able to extrapolate.

Of course your precise truths are based on a complete dataset. It’s not like you have ignored reports like the BMA one I mentioned above.

Give me a chance to respond. I have other things to do. Not least trying to secure you a shipment of tinfoil. There seems to be unprecedented demand, at present.

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:It’s interesting that, despite erroneous reports and a small number of localised problems, the NHS has not suffered a PPE shortage. This is all despite unprecedented international demand, a market in which countries such as France and the US requisitioned supplies within their borders from private companies and the govt sending a bucket load of PPE to China when COVID first hit there. It hasn’t been perfect, how could it be in such circumstances, but the govt and NHS have done a pretty good job on PPE, distribution issues notwithstanding. Of course, that doesn’t make for a good headline, a good click through rate or good viewing figures.
Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt, NHS and PHE for but I’m not convinced this is one of them.

As opposed to announcing a delivery of 400,000 gowns on the same day an order was placed. Of which only a fraction were initially delivered and which turned out to be not fit for purpose. And making the announcement despite being told by the DHSC not to. That wasn’t at all headline grabbing click bait sort of stuff. At least the guardian article is based in fact.

Mells, your cheerleading for this government has become crass. The BMA has suggested 50% of doctors have had to source their own PPE. That is not a few localised problems.

I’m on record on this very thread being critical of the govt messaging at times. I can see things from both sides despite having an obvious bias towards the Conservatives, though this govt is the reason my Con membership was not renewed. In fact, in my first post this morning I put “Plenty of issues on which to criticise govt”. That doesn’t speak of crass cheerleading but, given you think The Times are plotting to replace Boris with Gove, I’ll take your accusation with a pinch of salt.
The BMA gave their own figures, other sources gave others. Truth be told, from what I’ve read, the major issue is hospitals hoarding kit and a NHS run distribution system that wasn’t fit for purpose.

Chortle

“Truth be told...”. Because anything you agree with is an absolute truth, everything else is conspiracy and requires the wearing of a tin foil hat.