You left Dingwall and Woodward out too. or have I missed the point.TheNomad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 7:48 amIndeed. In fact, it doesn't really focus or give much colour on anyone else. Woodward looks good, though admittedly it's early days.
I had hoped for a little more from the article if I'm honest. Alongside the more (squad) established names of Lawrence, Dingwall and Beard, it gives brief mentions (some incredibly brief!) to:
Seb Atkinson
Ma'asi White
Waghorn
Butt
Ojomoh
James Williams (at 28, surely a less likely long term bet?)
It doesn't mention Will Joseph, Olly Hartley, Zack Wimbush (is he injured again?) or Jamie Benson (admittedly some of them are more outside bets IMO). I'm sure I've missed others. Either way, it's not really what I call a 'boom' - certainly not in the way we have in the back row anyway.
I also don't feel there's a lot of either (1) X-Factor - some with the skills and pace to make a difference or (2) genuine ballast to breach the gain line. Maybe the modern centre is more a bit of both?
Worth considering that Freeman's best long term home may indeed be at centre - and most of those above are arguably more comfortable at 13 vs. 12. So we really are back to the whole "who plays 12?" debate again. Mad really.
I still can't quite understand why Seb Atkinson hasn't even had a remote look in for the As. What am I missing?
Who else is coming through though that the age grade guys rate? Charlie Griffin was a good 13 who appears to be focusing on the wing now.
Full list something like:
12:
Seb Atkinson
Waghorn
Butt
Ojomoh
Hartley
Benson
13:
Lawrence
Beard
Ma'asi White
Wimbush
Joseph
Anyone else? I've obviously excluded the likes of Marchant and Anyanwu
New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Moderator: Puja
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Banquo
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
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FKAS
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
I think he's already at the top of his potential. He's clearly got some speed and power but he has only ever shown glimpses at Prem level. I'd be surprised if he he suddenly jumped up into international contention. Reminds me a bit of Will Rigg at Exeter, useful player but has limitations.
Unsure on Sam Spink. He could possibly kick on and look the business. Does seem to pick up knocks quite frequently. Looking forward to seeing what he can do alongside Hartley for Sarries though.
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TheNomad
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Puja
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Those four have had a grand total of 6 Prem/ERC starts between them this season through injury/selection, so I'm not surprised they're not mentioned in the runners and riders. Undoubtedly all promising players, but need to make it onto the pitch regularly before they can be talked up.TheNomad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 7:48 am It doesn't mention Will Joseph, Olly Hartley, Zack Wimbush (is he injured again?) or Jamie Benson (admittedly some of them are more outside bets IMO). I'm sure I've missed others. Either way, it's not really what I call a 'boom' - certainly not in the way we have in the back row anyway.
Agreed it's hardly a "boom" as of yet.
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twitchy
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... blic-sale/
For rugby union to broaden its footprint and flourish, it will require creative thinking and fierce enthusiasm. Steve Hanley, the former Sale Sharks wing who plundered 75 Premiership tries, possesses those qualities in abundance.
Three years ago, he and Joe Clark, an ex-Sharks colleague, established Trafford Schools; an invitational team in Manchester for boys who attend schools that do not have matches on a Saturday. Their sons, Jacob and Dylan, had failed entrance exams, denying them a chance to enrol somewhere they could immerse themselves in rugby union, training three times a week as well as playing weekend fixtures.
For Hanley, the setback stirred uneasy memories. “I’m sure there’s a bit of hidden PTSD driving all this,” he explains with a chuckle. “It will be ingrained in me from when I didn’t get picked for England Under-16s and England Under-18s.
“I went to school up in Cumbria, Cockermouth School. I played for the North of England Under-19s when I was 16 – three years young – at the old divisional tournament at Castlecroft. But I missed out on the England Under-19 trial every year until I signed for Sale Sharks.
“Two weeks after signing that contract, I was in the England Under-19 team. Then, in the same season, I played for the Under-21s, the A team, the sevens and the first team, all within six months. When I made my England debut at 19, I remember Clive Woodward commissioning a report, asking: ‘How have we missed this kid and how many more are there like him?’”
Hanley sought out Telegraph Sport after reading last month’s investigation into how rugby union may be affected by rising fees at independent schools. It is his view that “if you have fewer lads coming through the system, you’re going to have fewer coming out the top”. And he is also concerned about over-reliance on those establishments.
“I have no animosity whatsoever towards anyone who sends their kids to private school if they can,” Hanley adds. “The big issue I see is that the schools do such a good job that the Rugby Football Union have perhaps let those schools be the main way to bring kids through. And if you’re not in that system then you can get completely bypassed.”
Last October, on the back of an independently chaired review that warned of how rugby union was in danger of becoming a “declining minority sport” with the perception of being dominated by “posh white boys”, Hanley contacted the RFU. His sentiment was succinct: “I believe I’ve got the answer to your prayers”. By then, Trafford Schools had developed into a feel-good success story.
The Greater Manchester borough of Trafford houses both Sale Sharks, vying for Premiership glory again, and Sale FC, seventh in National One. Bowdon and Altrincham Kersal are two more strong clubs in the region. Yet Hanley and Clark estimate that only two of 14 comprehensive schools in the area – St Ambrose and Altrincham Grammar School for Boys – play regularly on Saturdays.
“You have Sale Grammar, Urmston Grammar, Stretford Grammar, Ashton on Mersey School and Blessed Thomas Holford Catholic College,” Hanley says. “None of them play on a Saturday anymore. They might do rugby in PE every now and again but that’s it.”
With their boys entering Year 7, while still enlisted in the “fantastic” junior section of the Trafford MV club, catering for 400 to 500 kids, Hanley and Clark staged tournaments for non-rugby playing schools. They wondered how a combined side would fare against illustrious opposition. Then they made it happen with the help of local hero Greg Hawkins, who was awarded the British Empire Medal in 2015 for tireless volunteer work in rugby union.
Wearing their club shirts inside-out as makeshift uniforms, a Trafford Schools Year 7 line-up took on Altrincham Grammar. Since then, the initiative has “grown and grown”. They play in kit kindly donated by Sale Sharks, and the Sale Sharks Supporters Club has backed them to the tune of £2,500 per season, covering balls, bibs, cones and tracksuits. Perch Group is another generous sponsor. Parents have not yet needed to pay a penny.
Trafford MV and Sale FC have been immensely generous with their facilities, and training sessions are staged in Carrington on Wednesday nights to avoid clashes with local clubs. Matches against prestigious rivals are on Saturdays, which allows players to fulfil their football fix on Sundays, if so inclined.
“About 30 per cent of our lads play football on a Sunday,” says Hanley, whose son, Jacob, was on the books at Oldham Athletic. “But I reckon we’ve picked up 15 or 20 lads who’d never played rugby at all. They’ve come to these schools tournaments we put on, usually with those white socks pulled up over their rugby socks, and they’re rapid. Give them a couple of years’ coaching on their skills and they can be brilliant at rugby.”
Initially, fixtures were tricky to organise because of ties between traditional schools. Hanley and Clark offered up Trafford Schools as stand-ins in case of cancellations. They found they had several friends and acquaintances working in the sector and gradually built a fixture list.
Trafford Schools are now represented by 10 different schools in the borough and have Year 7, Year 8 and Year 9 teams. Jacob Hanley, Dylan Clark and Freddie Wigglesworth, a scrum-half like his father Richard – who was this week named as an assistant coach for the British and Irish Lions tour of Australia – represent the latter. Interestingly, Freddie attends St Bede’s College, a fee-paying school that does not have a rugby union programme. He qualifies for Trafford Schools because of his affiliation to Bowdon RFC in the borough.
Statement results this season have included a draw with Wirral Grammar and a narrow victory over Kirkham. Kirkham and Wirral are currently ranked fourth and fifth, respectively, among Under-14 school sides in England, according to the Schools Rugby website. “I’m pretty confident that our Year 9s would give most teams a game,” suggests Hanley, who has ambitious plans.
He has been gently lobbying for Trafford Schools to enter the national competitions like the Continental Tyres Cup and the Rosslyn Park Sevens, without a serious breakthrough so far. The 45-year-old also wants to set up another safety net, this one for players who drop out of the Sale Sharks set-up when the regional development player pathway is filtered down into a far smaller senior academy intake.
This is a renowned pinch-point for participation because players may not cope with the disappointment and step away from the game entirely. Hanley states that a new entity for 15- to 18-year-olds called Trafford Rugby Academy could lean on Sale FC as a vehicle to invigorate these youngsters and strengthen the community game at the same time.
Already, Trafford Schools supports players that are too young to attend AASE [Achieving Academic and Sporting Excellence] colleges. Hanley is realistic enough to concede that his connections have provided a leg-up – Alex Sanderson, the Sale Sharks director of rugby, is one of his best mates – but is game if the RFU is interested in rolling out similar initiatives around the country. “Could these be set up by a Joe Bloggs without a recognisable name?” he asks. “Maybe not, so they might need an ambassador.”
Out of Jacob’s exam disappointment, an exciting venture is gathering impetus. “I wouldn’t be involved in this if Jacob was somewhere like St Ambrose,” says Hanley. “It’s given us a kick up the a---, I suppose.” In turn, Hanley is booting his sport up the backside in the most constructive way.
For rugby union to broaden its footprint and flourish, it will require creative thinking and fierce enthusiasm. Steve Hanley, the former Sale Sharks wing who plundered 75 Premiership tries, possesses those qualities in abundance.
Three years ago, he and Joe Clark, an ex-Sharks colleague, established Trafford Schools; an invitational team in Manchester for boys who attend schools that do not have matches on a Saturday. Their sons, Jacob and Dylan, had failed entrance exams, denying them a chance to enrol somewhere they could immerse themselves in rugby union, training three times a week as well as playing weekend fixtures.
For Hanley, the setback stirred uneasy memories. “I’m sure there’s a bit of hidden PTSD driving all this,” he explains with a chuckle. “It will be ingrained in me from when I didn’t get picked for England Under-16s and England Under-18s.
“I went to school up in Cumbria, Cockermouth School. I played for the North of England Under-19s when I was 16 – three years young – at the old divisional tournament at Castlecroft. But I missed out on the England Under-19 trial every year until I signed for Sale Sharks.
“Two weeks after signing that contract, I was in the England Under-19 team. Then, in the same season, I played for the Under-21s, the A team, the sevens and the first team, all within six months. When I made my England debut at 19, I remember Clive Woodward commissioning a report, asking: ‘How have we missed this kid and how many more are there like him?’”
Hanley sought out Telegraph Sport after reading last month’s investigation into how rugby union may be affected by rising fees at independent schools. It is his view that “if you have fewer lads coming through the system, you’re going to have fewer coming out the top”. And he is also concerned about over-reliance on those establishments.
“I have no animosity whatsoever towards anyone who sends their kids to private school if they can,” Hanley adds. “The big issue I see is that the schools do such a good job that the Rugby Football Union have perhaps let those schools be the main way to bring kids through. And if you’re not in that system then you can get completely bypassed.”
Last October, on the back of an independently chaired review that warned of how rugby union was in danger of becoming a “declining minority sport” with the perception of being dominated by “posh white boys”, Hanley contacted the RFU. His sentiment was succinct: “I believe I’ve got the answer to your prayers”. By then, Trafford Schools had developed into a feel-good success story.
The Greater Manchester borough of Trafford houses both Sale Sharks, vying for Premiership glory again, and Sale FC, seventh in National One. Bowdon and Altrincham Kersal are two more strong clubs in the region. Yet Hanley and Clark estimate that only two of 14 comprehensive schools in the area – St Ambrose and Altrincham Grammar School for Boys – play regularly on Saturdays.
“You have Sale Grammar, Urmston Grammar, Stretford Grammar, Ashton on Mersey School and Blessed Thomas Holford Catholic College,” Hanley says. “None of them play on a Saturday anymore. They might do rugby in PE every now and again but that’s it.”
With their boys entering Year 7, while still enlisted in the “fantastic” junior section of the Trafford MV club, catering for 400 to 500 kids, Hanley and Clark staged tournaments for non-rugby playing schools. They wondered how a combined side would fare against illustrious opposition. Then they made it happen with the help of local hero Greg Hawkins, who was awarded the British Empire Medal in 2015 for tireless volunteer work in rugby union.
Wearing their club shirts inside-out as makeshift uniforms, a Trafford Schools Year 7 line-up took on Altrincham Grammar. Since then, the initiative has “grown and grown”. They play in kit kindly donated by Sale Sharks, and the Sale Sharks Supporters Club has backed them to the tune of £2,500 per season, covering balls, bibs, cones and tracksuits. Perch Group is another generous sponsor. Parents have not yet needed to pay a penny.
Trafford MV and Sale FC have been immensely generous with their facilities, and training sessions are staged in Carrington on Wednesday nights to avoid clashes with local clubs. Matches against prestigious rivals are on Saturdays, which allows players to fulfil their football fix on Sundays, if so inclined.
“About 30 per cent of our lads play football on a Sunday,” says Hanley, whose son, Jacob, was on the books at Oldham Athletic. “But I reckon we’ve picked up 15 or 20 lads who’d never played rugby at all. They’ve come to these schools tournaments we put on, usually with those white socks pulled up over their rugby socks, and they’re rapid. Give them a couple of years’ coaching on their skills and they can be brilliant at rugby.”
Initially, fixtures were tricky to organise because of ties between traditional schools. Hanley and Clark offered up Trafford Schools as stand-ins in case of cancellations. They found they had several friends and acquaintances working in the sector and gradually built a fixture list.
Trafford Schools are now represented by 10 different schools in the borough and have Year 7, Year 8 and Year 9 teams. Jacob Hanley, Dylan Clark and Freddie Wigglesworth, a scrum-half like his father Richard – who was this week named as an assistant coach for the British and Irish Lions tour of Australia – represent the latter. Interestingly, Freddie attends St Bede’s College, a fee-paying school that does not have a rugby union programme. He qualifies for Trafford Schools because of his affiliation to Bowdon RFC in the borough.
Statement results this season have included a draw with Wirral Grammar and a narrow victory over Kirkham. Kirkham and Wirral are currently ranked fourth and fifth, respectively, among Under-14 school sides in England, according to the Schools Rugby website. “I’m pretty confident that our Year 9s would give most teams a game,” suggests Hanley, who has ambitious plans.
He has been gently lobbying for Trafford Schools to enter the national competitions like the Continental Tyres Cup and the Rosslyn Park Sevens, without a serious breakthrough so far. The 45-year-old also wants to set up another safety net, this one for players who drop out of the Sale Sharks set-up when the regional development player pathway is filtered down into a far smaller senior academy intake.
This is a renowned pinch-point for participation because players may not cope with the disappointment and step away from the game entirely. Hanley states that a new entity for 15- to 18-year-olds called Trafford Rugby Academy could lean on Sale FC as a vehicle to invigorate these youngsters and strengthen the community game at the same time.
Already, Trafford Schools supports players that are too young to attend AASE [Achieving Academic and Sporting Excellence] colleges. Hanley is realistic enough to concede that his connections have provided a leg-up – Alex Sanderson, the Sale Sharks director of rugby, is one of his best mates – but is game if the RFU is interested in rolling out similar initiatives around the country. “Could these be set up by a Joe Bloggs without a recognisable name?” he asks. “Maybe not, so they might need an ambassador.”
Out of Jacob’s exam disappointment, an exciting venture is gathering impetus. “I wouldn’t be involved in this if Jacob was somewhere like St Ambrose,” says Hanley. “It’s given us a kick up the a---, I suppose.” In turn, Hanley is booting his sport up the backside in the most constructive way.
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Puja
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
What a great initiative! Well done to Hanley (who I always felt was hard done by to only get 1 cap in his playing days - felt like SCW took against him after his involvement in the GS loss to Wales in 1999). Sounds like the kind of thing that should be sponsored by the RFU to be copied around the country.
Puja
Backist Monk
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Mr Mwenda
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Agreed, sounds like a great idea.
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Mikey Brown
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Today on Seb Atkinson watch:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gn30xlep3oGloucester centre Seb Atkinson will "be up there" on England head coach Steve Borthwick's radar, believes his club director of rugby George Skivington.
The 22-year-old scored a first-half hat-trick in a player of the match display in Saturday's 53-28 win over Bristol, with Borthwick in the Kingsholm crowd watching.
Atkinson has made 54 appearances for the club and scored eight tries since moving to the Cherry and Whites from Worcester in 2022.
Asked who he believed Borthwick was watching during the match, Skivington said Atkinson "would be up there".
"There's a couple of our young lads coming through now - Jack Clement would be in that bracket as well," Skivington told BBC Radio Gloucestershire.
"Certainly me and Steve have talked over Seb Atkinson so I think it was a great night for him to do what he did." Rampant nine-try Gloucester dismantle Bristol
Atkinson signed a new contract with the club in February and has played every minute at inside centre in 11 out of 13 Premiership matches so far.
Skivington said Atkinson was one of the "top three" names who would be picked out by his team-mates as key to the club's strong performances this season.
Victory against the Bears moved Gloucester back into the top four, level on points with third-placed Leicester.
"He's got brilliant power and it's deceptive I think, he's got a great skillset. He's a brilliant individual," Skivington said.
"He's in the leadership group at his age already which says a lot, he takes this very seriously. He's not here to mess around and get paid and go home, he's here to win.
"Internally he'd be one of the top three names mentioned as to why things are going well at the club, if you asked the boys."
Atkinson added it would "be nice" to be on the England radar but that club honours are his main focus.
"I'm just focussing on what we're doing at Gloucester and pushing on to the end of the season and if that comes, it comes," Atkinson said.
"I'm trying to find a balance of my game. I know that my passing game's really strong but trying to find some carrying, breaking tackles, fighting the extra few metres to get us on the front foot is something I've been working on really hard this year and I was glad I could show that."
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p/d
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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Quite the humble fella.