EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Mikey Brown]

Well, yes. Playing Watson on the wing is a another alternative to having Roko there (and Watson at fullback).

In terms of what I think the backline lacks (or has so far) I thought Yarde would be the best option, but to me he's had enough chances now and simply makes too many mistakes through over-eagerness, poor reading of the game or just being in the wrong place.

I can't really recall what Roko's weaknesses are that most of the other options don't also have.

[Banquo]

Well, yes. Playing Watson on the wing is a another alternative to having Roko there (and Watson at fullback).

In terms of what I think the backline lacks (or has so far) I thought Yarde would be the best option, but to me he's had enough chances now and simply makes too many mistakes through over-eagerness, poor reading of the game or just being in the wrong place.

I can't really recall what Roko's weaknesses are that most of the other options don't also have.

or Daly at 15

I don't get the question over Roko either, except he may be a little lazy from time to time.

[Mikey Brown]

Why would playing Daly at 15 be a potential solution to not having enough quality wingers?

[Banquo]

Why would playing Daly at 15 be a potential solution to not having enough quality wingers?

where did I say that? besides, it would free up Watson

[Mikey Brown]

You're not going to out-obtuse me this time, matey. The list I gave was purely pondering the options to fill the gap at 14 if 11. Daly 14. Rokodoguni 15. Watson isn't a goer.

[Oakboy]

Roko and Wade don't convince Eddie but, for different reasons (presumably), all the others do to the extent of being given more chances. Maybe, Eddie is looking for something different having concluded that all the best chacteristics of those two are found, collectively, within the others. I'd not be surprised if May and Yarde drop down the pecking order and Solomona climbs up it, just to offer something different. I would guess that Eddie will back himself to get his defence right in return for his pure finishing skills.

[Banquo]

You're not going to out-obtuse me this time, matey. The list I gave was purely pondering the options to fill the gap at 14 if 11. Daly 14. Rokodoguni 15. Watson isn't a goer.

you were being terribly confusing.

[Banquo]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

[Spiffy]

He's least like a wing in terms of instincts and experience playing on the wing. He's plenty talented enough; he's just doing all of his learning there in a white shirt and relying on his natural talent to overcome the lack of a decade's worth of experience in the position. He has to think about things that should be instinctive.

I'd like to see him either commit to becoming a back 3 player; or to concentrate on challenging JJ for the starting shirt. But then, I'd also like to see Slade commit to one position, and to challenge for that one... and Nowell to find a position he's a more natural fit at (OC or FB) and get 25-30 matches there on the trot

Daly has done really well playing on the wing and will get even better. He's worth his place for his gas, footballing ability and monster boot, and his defence has certainly improved. I don't think the learning curve is that steep at all. In the past, several great midfielders have made a more or less seamless transition to the wing - Duckham, Gerald Davies and Ashley-Cooper come immediately to mind and I'm sure posters can think of many more. I think Daly will become a fixture on the England team with the real capacity to cover FB, wing and 13, and play well in all the slots.

Jonny May has got a lot of flack here for not being too bright, but I don't think he is as bad as all that, and his game could certainly be coached up. His advantage is pure out and out pace and there is always the possibility he could nick a try that no other wing could. I'd still have him ahead of Nowell, who had a good game for the Lions against the Chiefs'reserves, but will still show his limitations, both in attack and defence, against top opposition, despite his work rate.

[p/d]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

[Mellsblue]

I knew it when I saw him play for Bedford v Wuss in a play-off same. So there.

[Banquo]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

Kruis control

[Oakboy]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

I won't bite on that, suspecting that you know I couldn't stand Campese!

[Banquo]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

I won't bite on that, suspecting that you know I couldn't stand Campese!

...one of the most skilled players you'll ever see? strange

[Beasties]

+1 for Kruis' blossoming into becoming a more than useful lock at international level. He has looked good ever since emerging at Sarries. I'm sure I posted ages ago that Sarries would become a better team once Borthwick retired and Kruis took over fully at lock. I'll put my trumpet away now

[Oakboy]

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

I won't bite on that, suspecting that you know I couldn't stand Campese!

...one of the most skilled players you'll ever see? strange

Agreed but he out-'arroganted' we arrogant to the extent that I begrudged him oxygen. I did say I wouldn't bite!

[Which Tyler]

[1.]Daly has done really well playing on the wing and will get even better. He's worth his place for his gas, footballing ability and monster boot, and his defence has certainly improved. I don't think the learning curve is that steep at all. In the past, several great midfielders have made a more or less seamless transition to the wing - Duckham, Gerald Davies and Ashley-Cooper come immediately to mind and I'm sure posters can think of many more. I think Daly will become a fixture on the England team with the real capacity to cover FB, wing and 13, and play well in all the slots.

[2.]Jonny May has got a lot of flack here for not being too bright, but I don't think he is as bad as all that, and his game could certainly be coached up. His advantage is pure out and out pace and there is always the possibility he could nick a try that no other wing could. I'd still have him ahead of Nowell, who had a good game for the Lions against the Chiefs'reserves, but will still show his limitations, both in attack and defence, against top opposition, despite his work rate.

[1.] Yes, but it takes more than 7 games to make the transition even so. As far as I'm aware, 100% of his starts on the wing have come for England (oh, and the Lions). Yes he's played 15 and 13 plenty enough to transition pretty quickly; but even at his talent level it'll take a good 20+ matches to build up the positional experience required.

[2.] In seriousness on May; then having known him as a kid, I wouldn't necessarily say that he's thick (not the brightest bulb, but not actually thick); he just has an attention span of about half a Trump. I actually agree that I'd have him ahead of Nowell; but I'm one of Nowell's harsher critics on here, and one of May's more frequent defenders - I also put more of a premium on pace for a winger than most; I really do believe that each position has an absolute basic requirement (even though international coaches often disagree with me); and a winger without pace just fails the basics - like a SH without a decent pass (BYoungs), or a FH without decent vision (OFArrell) or a THP who can't really acrummage (HThomas) etc

[Oakboy]

[1.]Daly has done really well playing on the wing and will get even better. He's worth his place for his gas, footballing ability and monster boot, and his defence has certainly improved. I don't think the learning curve is that steep at all. In the past, several great midfielders have made a more or less seamless transition to the wing - Duckham, Gerald Davies and Ashley-Cooper come immediately to mind and I'm sure posters can think of many more. I think Daly will become a fixture on the England team with the real capacity to cover FB, wing and 13, and play well in all the slots.

[2.]Jonny May has got a lot of flack here for not being too bright, but I don't think he is as bad as all that, and his game could certainly be coached up. His advantage is pure out and out pace and there is always the possibility he could nick a try that no other wing could. I'd still have him ahead of Nowell, who had a good game for the Lions against the Chiefs'reserves, but will still show his limitations, both in attack and defence, against top opposition, despite his work rate.

[1.] Yes, but it takes more than 7 games to make the transition even so. As far as I'm aware, 100% of his starts on the wing have come for England (oh, and the Lions). Yes he's played 15 and 13 plenty enough to transition pretty quickly; but even at his talent level it'll take a good 20+ matches to build up the positional experience required.

[2.] In seriousness on May; then having known him as a kid, I wouldn't necessarily say that he's thick (not the brightest bulb, but not actually thick); he just has an attention span of about half a Trump. I actually agree that I'd have him ahead of Nowell; but I'm one of Nowell's harsher critics on here, and one of May's more frequent defenders - I also put more of a premium on pace for a winger than most; I really do believe that each position has an absolute basic requirement (even though international coaches often disagree with me); and a winger without pace just fails the basics - like a SH without a decent pass (BYoungs), or a FH without decent vision (OFArrell) or a THP who can't really acrummage (HThomas) etc

Do you mean that Daly never played on the wing for Wasps? I thought he had, several times, a season or two back.

[Banquo]

[1.]Daly has done really well playing on the wing and will get even better. He's worth his place for his gas, footballing ability and monster boot, and his defence has certainly improved. I don't think the learning curve is that steep at all. In the past, several great midfielders have made a more or less seamless transition to the wing - Duckham, Gerald Davies and Ashley-Cooper come immediately to mind and I'm sure posters can think of many more. I think Daly will become a fixture on the England team with the real capacity to cover FB, wing and 13, and play well in all the slots.

[2.]Jonny May has got a lot of flack here for not being too bright, but I don't think he is as bad as all that, and his game could certainly be coached up. His advantage is pure out and out pace and there is always the possibility he could nick a try that no other wing could. I'd still have him ahead of Nowell, who had a good game for the Lions against the Chiefs'reserves, but will still show his limitations, both in attack and defence, against top opposition, despite his work rate.

[1.] Yes, but it takes more than 7 games to make the transition even so. As far as I'm aware, 100% of his starts on the wing have come for England (oh, and the Lions). Yes he's played 15 and 13 plenty enough to transition pretty quickly; but even at his talent level it'll take a good 20+ matches to build up the positional experience required.

[2.] In seriousness on May; then having known him as a kid, I wouldn't necessarily say that he's thick (not the brightest bulb, but not actually thick); he just has an attention span of about half a Trump. I actually agree that I'd have him ahead of Nowell; but I'm one of Nowell's harsher critics on here, and one of May's more frequent defenders - I also put more of a premium on pace for a winger than most; I really do believe that each position has an absolute basic requirement (even though international coaches often disagree with me); and a winger without pace just fails the basics - like a SH without a decent pass (BYoungs), or a FH without decent vision (OFArrell) or a THP who can't really acrummage (HThomas) etc

Do you mean that Daly never played on the wing for Wasps? I thought he had, several times, a season or two back.

I was told that as well- he did play 15 for half a season iirc

[Mikey Brown]

I think he's shuffled out there one or twice, can't recall him ever actually wearing 11/14 though.

He played 15 for quite a while didn't he? I remember him tearing England a new one playing 15 for the Barbarians. Annoyingly at that time I really wanted him to move back to centre.

[Raggs]

He's run out at wing a few times, but very early on I believe. Covered there in injuries too. Spent a season flitting between 13 and fullback, then a season with a good proportion at time at fullback I think. Really liked him at fullback, he ran great attacking lines, cutting back in off the 13/wing.

[Which Tyler]

I know he played FB plenty, and probably covered across to wing when the bench came on, but I thought he'd never started there. Happy to be corrected on that though, but even if he's started 20, the evidence of my eyes suggests he's still not instinctive there. Actually, if he's played there a bit and not used to it yet, then he probably needs to play even longer to do so than my initial feeling.

[Banquo]

I know he played FB plenty, and probably covered across to wing when the bench came on, but I thought he'd never started there. Happy to be corrected on that though, but even if he's started 20, the evidence of my eyes suggests he's still not instinctive there. Actually, if he's played there a bit and not used to it yet, then he probably needs to play even longer to do so than my initial feeling.

Not being a smart ar5e, but what is it you are seeing that tells you that?

[Which Tyler]

From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

[Eugene Wrayburn]

From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

This seems to be no longer considered a thing. The number of Test wings who get it wrong is staggering.