RugbyRebels

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

This seems to be no longer considered a thing. The number of Test wings who get it wrong is staggering.

Was it ever a thing? Some do swap hands, some don't, it doesn't seem much changed

Which Tyler wrote:From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

as just demonstrated, reverted to centre mode and Taylor scores

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

as just demonstrated, reverted to centre mode and Taylor scores

briefly; he remembered that the wide-man was his to cover too late, and got caught in no-man's land.
I was trying to be subtle though on the match thread; having pulled out of commenting here.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

as just demonstrated, reverted to centre mode and Taylor scores

briefly; he remembered that the wide-man was his to cover too late, and got caught in no-man's land.
I was trying to be subtle though on the match thread; having pulled out of commenting here.

Farrell has been comical, but the Sexton/Farrell combo is a fecking hoot.

T'eo must be fuming

No mention by Barnes on how shit Farrell has been

Not a great day for our players to be honest ... Mako was OK but Kruis and Farrell were crap.

Watson was about the only one who showed up well. Sinckler was decent when he came on.

Scrumhead wrote:Not a great day for our players to be honest ... Mako was OK but Kruis and Farrell were crap.

Watson was about the only one who showed up well. Sinckler was decent when he came on.

Thought T'eo was very good. Brilliant block on SBW for the try and solid hits in defence. Only player able to bash it up and then losses out so the undroppable can stay on the park

Yeah. That's fair. Te'o was decent. Pretty much nullified SBW.

Seems a bit hyperbolic on Farrell and Kruis there. Farrell had his moments to go with the occasional break down in skills, despite a lot of pressure. Kruis seems to be a bloke everyone builds teams around.

Mako and Sinkler were good I'd say. Daly and Watson looked dangerous on attack. Te'o also pretty effective, for my money.

p/d wrote:Farrell has been comical, but the Sexton/Farrell combo is a fecking hoot.

T'eo must be fuming

That was a dreadful substitution. Like England just pick your 10 and then T'eo at 12.

I'd take issue with the idea that various of our players were 'crap' tbh. This AB team, frankly, is a considerable step up to anything our players have faced....probably ever. You can be decent, or even pretty good and still be made to look stupid by them. Elliot Daly a case in point, who I don't think I've ever seen outpaced on the outside on a rugby pitch before.

Anyway, I get the reservations about our players being on Lions tours, in terms of injury and fatigue, but this particular series I think it's brilliant that our players are out there. Up close and personal with the standards needed to match the best team in the world. If you don't come away a better player from this you're an idiot.

skidger wrote:

p/d wrote:Farrell has been comical, but the Sexton/Farrell combo is a fecking hoot.

T'eo must be fuming

That was a dreadful substitution. Like England just pick your 10 and then T'eo at 12.

Indeed. Also thought the timing of replacing George was a tad silly.....but we see it many times with a similar outcome

Timbo wrote:I'd take issue with the idea that various of our players were 'crap' tbh. This AB team, frankly, is a considerable step up to anything our players have faced....probably ever. You can be decent, or even pretty good and still be made to look stupid by them. Elliot Daly a case in point, who I don't think I've ever seen outpaced on the outside on a rugby pitch before.

Anyway, I get the reservations about our players being on Lions tours, in terms of injury and fatigue, but this particular series I think it's brilliant that our players are out there. Up close and personal with the standards needed to match the best team in the world. If you don't come away a better player from this you're an idiot.

To be fair we were mauled from 1 - 10 by an incredible set of players. The AB's really are a joy to watch

Timbo wrote:I'd take issue with the idea that various of our players were 'crap' tbh. This AB team, frankly, is a considerable step up to anything our players have faced....probably ever. You can be decent, or even pretty good and still be made to look stupid by them. Elliot Daly a case in point, who I don't think I've ever seen outpaced on the outside on a rugby pitch before.

Anyway, I get the reservations about our players being on Lions tours, in terms of injury and fatigue, but this particular series I think it's brilliant that our players are out there. Up close and personal with the standards needed to match the best team in the world. If you don't come away a better player from this you're an idiot.

Fair point. I should stress that I thought Kruis and Farrell were crap today specifically. I expect more from both of them and I guess I'm just disappointed that they didn't front-up in the way I expected them to.

I agree that a good chunk of our players being on this tour/in the 23 is a real benefit. The All Blacks just showed us the standard that we're aspiring to get to and the more exposure we have to that the better.

From a temperament point of view, I love it the Sinckler comes of the bench and always makes an impact. How long before he starts pushing Dan Cole for the 3 shirt?

Scrumhead wrote:

Timbo wrote:I'd take issue with the idea that various of our players were 'crap' tbh. This AB team, frankly, is a considerable step up to anything our players have faced....probably ever. You can be decent, or even pretty good and still be made to look stupid by them. Elliot Daly a case in point, who I don't think I've ever seen outpaced on the outside on a rugby pitch before.

Anyway, I get the reservations about our players being on Lions tours, in terms of injury and fatigue, but this particular series I think it's brilliant that our players are out there. Up close and personal with the standards needed to match the best team in the world. If you don't come away a better player from this you're an idiot.

Fair point. I should stress that I thought Kruis and Farrell were crap today specifically. I expect more from both of them and I guess I'm just disappointed that they didn't front-up in the way I expected them to.

I agree that a good chunk of our players being on this tour/in the 23 is a real benefit. The All Blacks just showed us the standard that we're aspiring to get to and the more exposure we have to that the better.

From a temperament point of view, I love it the Sinckler comes of the bench and always makes an impact. How long before he starts pushing Dan Cole for the 3 shirt?

Farrell was Farrell today. For all the hype from idiots like SCW and the iceman nonsense he often has some very ordinary games and give me Ford over him at 10 any day. I count myself as a Kruis fan but it was not great from him today. These are the tough choices Gatland now has to make as whether you back a very good player like Kruis to show how good he is or bring in someone else. There will be one open spot with AWJ being dropped but i would really like to see Lawes starting for the 2nd test.

p/d wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Not a great day for our players to be honest ... Mako was OK but Kruis and Farrell were crap.

Watson was about the only one who showed up well. Sinckler was decent when he came on.

Thought T'eo was very good. Brilliant block on SBW for the try and solid hits in defence. Only player able to bash it up and then losses out so the undroppable can stay on the park

Teo does need to look outside him, but he went well.

Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje went ok; Kruis had a poor day with the ball but ran the lineout brilliantly (then Owens came on ). Daly was a mixed bag- as which predicted, he wandered a bit in defence.....but his wing outside break (:)) was great for the try. I thought Watson looked good and dangerous, shame he tried a miracle pass. Farrell....was Farrell, its his normal game, just not a good look when you lose.

Not sure where the Lions can go- too much to fix at the breakdown imo; eliminate the soft turnovers, keep up the lineout and don't overdo the kicks (NZ had great possession stat simply because we kept on giving it back)....and maybe can hold them. And the ABs simply have more players of the highest class.

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Not a great day for our players to be honest ... Mako was OK but Kruis and Farrell were crap.

Watson was about the only one who showed up well. Sinckler was decent when he came on.

Thought T'eo was very good. Brilliant block on SBW for the try and solid hits in defence. Only player able to bash it up and then losses out so the undroppable can stay on the park

Teo does need to look outside him, but he went well.

Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje went ok; Kruis had a poor day with the ball but ran the lineout brilliantly (then Owens came on ). Daly was a mixed bag- as which predicted, he wandered a bit in defence.....but his wing outside break (:)) was great for the try. I thought Watson looked good and dangerous, shame he tried a miracle pass. Farrell....was Farrell, its his normal game, just not a good look when you lose.

Not sure where the Lions can go- too much to fix at the breakdown imo; eliminate the soft turnovers, keep up the lineout and don't overdo the kicks (NZ had great possession stat simply because we kept on giving it back)....and maybe can hold them. And the ABs simply have more players of the highest class.

Fair comments all. Not Kruis's best day with the ball but tackle count will be high.

I actually thought Farrell dreadful today.. (The best Barnes could muster was suggesting a restart was good when in truth it was too long and gave the ABs an easy out). His defence was poor and some of his passes were schoolboy dire.

Backrow generally looked out of its depth (could have done with Billy carries), captain uninspiring and replacement even less so.

Strangely enough our centre pairing looks more than adequate and thought Williams showed he is a FB ......cannot wait to see Watson there for England.

I don't know where the Lions can go given the twin aims of Gatball and the Farrell inspired rush defence. Maybe shunt SOB to 8 and bring in Warbs or Tips, or even both. They'd maybe consider Stander to try and win some collisions. And Lawes would add an edge to the defence plays they're likely to continue making.

Digby wrote:I don't know where the Lions can go given the twin aims of Gatball and the Farrell inspired rush defence. Maybe shunt SOB to 8 and bring in Warbs or Tips, or even both. They'd maybe consider Stander to try and win some collisions. And Lawes would add an edge to the defence plays they're likely to continue making.

Faletau was strangely anonymous, really rate him. Would have been interesting to see Billy out there.

Breakdown is a big issue, and can't see that changing overly. Stopping the offload at the tackle line. Keeping up the pressure at the lineout and stop with the easy turnovers. Not much then

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote: Thought T'eo was very good. Brilliant block on SBW for the try and solid hits in defence. Only player able to bash it up and then losses out so the undroppable can stay on the park

Teo does need to look outside him, but he went well.

Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje went ok; Kruis had a poor day with the ball but ran the lineout brilliantly (then Owens came on ). Daly was a mixed bag- as which predicted, he wandered a bit in defence.....but his wing outside break (:)) was great for the try. I thought Watson looked good and dangerous, shame he tried a miracle pass. Farrell....was Farrell, its his normal game, just not a good look when you lose.

Not sure where the Lions can go- too much to fix at the breakdown imo; eliminate the soft turnovers, keep up the lineout and don't overdo the kicks (NZ had great possession stat simply because we kept on giving it back)....and maybe can hold them. And the ABs simply have more players of the highest class.

Fair comments all. Not Kruis's best day with the ball but tackle count will be high.

I actually thought Farrell dreadful today.. (The best Barnes could muster was suggesting a restart was good when in truth it was too long and gave the ABs an easy out). His defence was poor and some of his passes were schoolboy dire.

Backrow generally looked out of its depth (could have done with Billy carries), captain uninspiring and replacement even less so.

Strangely enough our centre pairing looks more than adequate and thought Williams showed he is a FB ......cannot wait to see Watson there for England.

I think that game was BAU for Faz tbh.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:I don't know where the Lions can go given the twin aims of Gatball and the Farrell inspired rush defence. Maybe shunt SOB to 8 and bring in Warbs or Tips, or even both. They'd maybe consider Stander to try and win some collisions. And Lawes would add an edge to the defence plays they're likely to continue making.

Faletau was strangely anonymous, really rate him. Would have been interesting to see Billy out there.

Breakdown is a big issue, and can't see that changing overly. Stopping the offload at the tackle line. Keeping up the pressure at the lineout and stop with the easy turnovers. Not much then

I'm still inclined to think absent of Billy they might have picked Moriarty. It's just much harder to run looking for offloads when the carrier gets knocked back - actually AWJ is the one we might have looked to in that pack to win some collisions and he never really got stuck into them, so maybe Lawes comes in for Jones. And I agree they'll have to look at Faletau, even if like you I'm a big fan of his

Overall Lions had their moments but the NZ attacking game asks so many questions that one never felt the Lions could hold them out. SOB's try was great, though. Odd to reflect that where we thought we would really be bettered - centre and back 3 - we looked OK, yet our much vaunted pack really didnt step up at all.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:I don't know where the Lions can go given the twin aims of Gatball and the Farrell inspired rush defence. Maybe shunt SOB to 8 and bring in Warbs or Tips, or even both. They'd maybe consider Stander to try and win some collisions. And Lawes would add an edge to the defence plays they're likely to continue making.

Faletau was strangely anonymous, really rate him. Would have been interesting to see Billy out there.

Breakdown is a big issue, and can't see that changing overly. Stopping the offload at the tackle line. Keeping up the pressure at the lineout and stop with the easy turnovers. Not much then

The Lions comprehensively lost the breakdown battle, but Peyper let the AB's go straight off their feet in almost every ruck.

That said, I couldn't believe how poor we were at supporting the ball carrier. I lost count of the amount of times players went on their own and got turned-over or pinged for holding on. It was truly schoolboy stuff in that regard.

I thought Faletau was decent though ...