RugbyRebels

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:Hmm...can't agree about Te'o and JD on this tour. Both have carried plenty of threat in every game they've played. Don't agree about 'pedestrian plodders' or 'lack of pace' either, as they are both very athletic with a decent turn of pace. For my money I'd say the centres were one of the few (only) areas the Lions got the better of the AB's, at least until Te'o went off.

...running threat yes, passing/decision making just poor tbh.

Yes, but Joseph is the only bloke on tour who could offer any sort of potential upgrade in that regard. BUT we shouldn't pretend that Joseph is a clear 100% upgrade, as JD offers other things that Joseph doesn't.

JD is a decent enough all round 13. He hs been pretty good on this tour about finding the gaps and getting through them with nice footwork. But he just doesn't seem to have the gas to finish off those breaks or the vision to deliver the try-scoring pass. In retrospect, Gatland might have considered giving him a run at 12 (where he has played before) with the pacy Joseph outside at 13. For me, one of the biggest disappointments on this tour so far is the lack of midfield (10,12,13) play-making ability and flair. This was only to be expected in a squad selected to play one dimensional Gatball.

Spiffy wrote:

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote: ...running threat yes, passing/decision making just poor tbh.

Yes, but Joseph is the only bloke on tour who could offer any sort of potential upgrade in that regard. BUT we shouldn't pretend that Joseph is a clear 100% upgrade, as JD offers other things that Joseph doesn't.

JD is a decent enough all round 13. He hs been pretty good on this tour about finding the gaps and getting through them with nice footwork. But he just doesn't seem to have the gas to finish off those breaks or the vision to deliver the try-scoring pass. In retrospect, Gatland might have considered giving him a run at 12 (where he has played before) with the pacy Joseph outside at 13. For me, one of the biggest disappointments on this tour so far is the lack of midfield (10,12,13) play-making ability and flair. This was only to be expected in a squad selected to play one dimensional Gatball.

I particularly like how Gatland actually went to the effort of picking some guys like Sexton, Joseph and Hogg who seem to at least have some appreciation of attacking space. But wouldn't you know it, they've looked utterly shite playing Gatball.

I guess he was right all along.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Timbo wrote:
Yes, but Joseph is the only bloke on tour who could offer any sort of potential upgrade in that regard. BUT we shouldn't pretend that Joseph is a clear 100% upgrade, as JD offers other things that Joseph doesn't.

JD is a decent enough all round 13. He hs been pretty good on this tour about finding the gaps and getting through them with nice footwork. But he just doesn't seem to have the gas to finish off those breaks or the vision to deliver the try-scoring pass. In retrospect, Gatland might have considered giving him a run at 12 (where he has played before) with the pacy Joseph outside at 13. For me, one of the biggest disappointments on this tour so far is the lack of midfield (10,12,13) play-making ability and flair. This was only to be expected in a squad selected to play one dimensional Gatball.

I particularly like how Gatland actually went to the effort of picking some guys like Sexton, Joseph and Hogg who seem to at least have some appreciation of attacking space. But wouldn't you know it, they've looked utterly shite playing Gatball.

I guess he was right all along.

well Hogg was just starting to show up when crocked, and I don't think Sexton and JJ have been shyte tbh...they both went well in their previous starts. But you are right that the latter two weren't in his mind to start before they went- indeed, I don't think JJ was selected until the last minute.

I have to say, though, this Lions series has shown England some good things.

George as B&Is best hooker, Te'o as the 12, Nowell at FB...

I wonder if Eddie will take notice, or even Rob Baxter for that matter.

Stom wrote:I have to say, though, this Lions series has shown England some good things.

George as B&Is best hooker, Te'o as the 12, Nowell at FB...

I wonder if Eddie will take notice, or even Rob Baxter for that matter.

Highlight the moment in Nowell's 20 mins at fullback at which you thought you had enough evidence to incontrovertibly state Nowell should play at fullback.

Well- it was midweek opposition, but Lawes/Henderson look about the best pairing at lock so far. The Lawes substitution likely means he's in the 23 for Saturday, but Henderson was as least as impressive (apart from his one moment of madness when he was binned.) Nowell might make it too over the out-of-sorts Halfpenny, though it could be a tossup with North.
Best is not flash, but still is probably the best hard-nosed hooker at the breakdown.
A draw seemed a fair enough result, but the Highlanders almost nicked it and the Lions were unable to close down the game with a sizeable lead.

Mellsblue wrote:

Stom wrote:I have to say, though, this Lions series has shown England some good things.

George as B&Is best hooker, Te'o as the 12, Nowell at FB...

I wonder if Eddie will take notice, or even Rob Baxter for that matter.

Highlight the moment in Nowell's 20 mins at fullback at which you thought you had enough evidence to incontrovertibly state Nowell should play at fullback.

Nothing in particular, but I've been calling for him at FB for about 2 years...

Stom wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Stom wrote:I have to say, though, this Lions series has shown England some good things.

George as B&Is best hooker, Te'o as the 12, Nowell at FB...

I wonder if Eddie will take notice, or even Rob Baxter for that matter.

Highlight the moment in Nowell's 20 mins at fullback at which you thought you had enough evidence to incontrovertibly state Nowell should play at fullback.

Nothing in particular, but I've been calling for him at FB for about 2 years...

You're not alone on that. I just can't see any evidence from his time with the lions that has shown Baxter or Jones he should play at fullback.

I have this same feeling about Nowell at 15. I just think it would work. Hard to say how my of that is that I simply don't think he'll ever have what it takes on the wing.

Mikey Brown wrote:I have this same feeling about Nowell at 15. I just think it would work. Hard to say how my of that is that I simply don't think he'll ever have what it takes on the wing.

what's his kicking game like, anyone got any insight?

He can kick but rarely does.

He was fine yesterday and could turn into a very handy FB.

Thought the 2 props had strong games. 2 big 80 minute efforts from Marler & Cole in a row.

I'm in the minority here, but I still think Nowell is one of our 2 best wingers, with Watson. Yes he doesn't have the raw pace of Watson, May etc, but he is an intelligent footballer with great skills. Bit Teddy Sheringham, first 2 yards are in the head!

Bloggs wrote:I'm in the minority here, but I still think Nowell is one of our 2 best wingers, with Watson. Yes he doesn't have the raw pace of Watson, May etc, but he is an intelligent footballer with great skills. Bit Teddy Sheringham, first 2 yards are in the head!

That's quite a large minority; I doubt that there's many here who don't consider him to be one of our best wingers, along with Watson, Daly and May. Probably a significant majority would consider Nowell amongst top 3 (May seems to be the least favoured of those 4 - despite being the only out-and-out winger).

Which Tyler wrote:

Bloggs wrote:I'm in the minority here, but I still think Nowell is one of our 2 best wingers, with Watson. Yes he doesn't have the raw pace of Watson, May etc, but he is an intelligent footballer with great skills. Bit Teddy Sheringham, first 2 yards are in the head!

That's quite a large minority; I doubt that there's many here who don't consider him to be one of our best wingers, along with Watson, Daly and May. Probably a significant majority would consider Nowell amongst top 3 (May seems to be the least favoured of those 4 - despite being the only out-and-out winger).

yep....the questions around Nowell don't really relate to whether or not he is worth his place in the current England wing hierarchy...

Baxter has said a few times that he thinks moving Nowell to fullback will negate his biggest strength; the ability pop up anywhere in the attacking line and get his hands on the ball.

Timbo wrote:Baxter has said a few times that he thinks moving Nowell to fullback will negate his biggest strength; the ability pop up anywhere in the attacking line and get his hands on the ball.

I agree with that statement actually. I think the theory goes that he could still play that roaming role while at full back but I'm not convinced.

I think wing is probably his best position. He'll always be limited by pace, we know this, so he'll only ever be a good player rather than anything more, but for now that's better than most of his competition for that slot

I want to see May, Nowell and Watson as a 3. I think that would work really well. Nowell can be on wing, but can pivot round when needed to cover Watson, and do a good job stepping in at 15.

We've not seen it, but I think it may well be our best combination.

Timbo wrote:Baxter has said a few times that he thinks moving Nowell to fullback will negate his biggest strength; the ability pop up anywhere in the attacking line and get his hands on the ball.

that's a very good point; not that he is in Campese's league, but it was one reason using Campo at 15 didn't last (that, and he made some terrible mistakes )

I am quite surprised how quickly his defensive errors get forgotten though. That's what I struggle with, with him.

Where does he need to improve defensively do you think? He doesn't lack bravery or power, put in a decent shot on Savea running straight at him yesterday.

In most ways. Cover tackling is largely good though.

Timbo wrote:Where does he need to improve defensively do you think? He doesn't lack bravery or power, put in a decent shot on Savea running straight at him yesterday.

I'd say he has problems with positioning and speed. He is a good defender at close quarters but if his opposite number gets the ball and some space Jack will have problems. He was clearly burned a couple of times on this tour. The positioning part can be worked on, but maybe not the speed, though a few players have added a bit of pace with some specialist sprint coaching (Cipriani; Mike Brown.)

Timbo wrote:Where does he need to improve defensively do you think? He doesn't lack bravery or power, put in a decent shot on Savea running straight at him yesterday.

His positional play is often poor; he knows he isn't rapid so sometimes sells himself, as we've seen on this tour. He gets beaten one on one relatively often, and on the outside.

Stom wrote:I want to see May, Nowell and Watson as a 3. I think that would work really well. Nowell can be on wing, but can pivot round when needed to cover Watson, and do a good job stepping in at 15.

We've not seen it, but I think it may well be our best combination.

No Daly? I think Watson and Daly are the best two by some distance. They are in front of Nowell by roughly the same amount as he is ahead of May, IMO.

He also seems to be erratic as a tackler. He makes tackles you expect him to be bumped off but then misses tackles that look straight forward.

Oakboy wrote:

Stom wrote:I want to see May, Nowell and Watson as a 3. I think that would work really well. Nowell can be on wing, but can pivot round when needed to cover Watson, and do a good job stepping in at 15.

We've not seen it, but I think it may well be our best combination.

No Daly? I think Watson and Daly are the best two by some distance. They are in front of Nowell by roughly the same amount as he is ahead of May, IMO.

Daly is a 13 all day long, IMO.

Watson is a top quality FB currently learning his trade on the wing, whilst Nowell is a back rower who happens to be an excellent ball tracking winger.