EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Which Tyler]

45-man elite player squad:

Oh joy, more work for me to do.


Actually, I think Lozowski may be the only one I hadn't already Stat.d; so it shouldn't take me too long - just not until I get home from work (I don't have the spreadsheet here).

Is Loz getting that spot sipmly to encourage him not to take the Italian Euro? or does that confirm that Cips' international career is actually over?

[fivepointer]

Cipriani unlucky. Can forget about England, as can Kvesic. Harrison slipped down the pecking order. Taylor now ahead of LCD? Do we really need 4 No 8's? Robson closer to getting a chance.

[Stom]

Just what I was thinking.

I suppose give Goode another go, even if we just end up saying "nope, still can't hack it". I don't like the balance though, if magically we do get two distributors and a ball-passing 9 it would be nice to have some more solid options outside. I think Nowell could do that but god knows when he last played there.

Throwing him in an international at 15 wouldn't be a good idea, imo.

Watson may end up being the best bet, but Nowell doesn't seem to like left wing... Actually, we have 3 right wingers and a FB who plays left wing.

[Digby]

Two looseheads, two tightheads and four hookers. Suggests they're not expecting much from Hartley.

[Stom]

Two looseheads, two tightheads and four hookers. Suggests they're not expecting much from Hartley.

Three, sorry. Was my mistake. LCD isn't in. The 37th slot we don't know as the RFU made a mistake naming Haskell twice.

[Digby]

Two looseheads, two tightheads and four hookers. Suggests they're not expecting much from Hartley.

Three, sorry. Was my mistake. LCD isn't in. The 37th slot we don't know as the RFU made a mistake naming Haskell twice.

Ah, cheers. Though you could have left me happy with the though Hartley wasn't likely to be available a while longer.

[Beasties]

Don't get Morgan being in there at all. Thought we'd moved on from there, he hasn't exactly pulled any trees up for a long time. Thomson would've been far more deserving of a call up.

[Peej]

Beaumont seems to be listed as a second row in a lot of media outlets

[TheNomad]

Beaumont seems to be listed as a second row in a lot of media outlets

Yeah, not be some margin eh?

At the moment he's an 8, and I don't see that changing for a while. I've seen him play lock for sale but he's better in the back row

As a lock he'd be no where near

[Stom]

Beaumont seems to be listed as a second row in a lot of media outlets

Yeah, not be some margin eh?

At the moment he's an 8, and I don't see that changing for a while. I've seen him play lock for sale but he's better in the back row

As a lock he'd be no where near

He can play 6, and decently. I think he'd be a good bet there.

But we lack openside cover. So one of the 8s will have to play there sooner or later...

[Which Tyler]

Bloody Eddie Jones, and selecting Lozowski ahead of Cipriani!

2015-16

EPS 2015-16.png

2016-17

EPS 2016-17.png

[Mellsblue]

Just seen a clip of Jones from the news conference.
• He name checks Youngs, Attwood, Brookes, Wood (worryingly), Simpson, Cipriani, Burrell (worryingly) as unlucky to miss out.
• Cips is either first choice or not in the squad.
• Grappling was weak in Oz and they'll be having judo practice in camp.

[Peej]

Beaumont seems to be listed as a second row in a lot of media outlets

Yeah, not be some margin eh?

At the moment he's an 8, and I don't see that changing for a while. I've seen him play lock for sale but he's better in the back row

As a lock he'd be no where near

Agreed, he's much better in the back row. Must be a typo describing him as a lock. I was just wondering if it was something that England had done, announcing players by position.

[Peat]

Which - just to be difficult - could you add Freddie Burns in next time you update this? No rush.

For all the chat about how Morgan doesn't do it for Glaws - which I'm not disputing per se - his stats do look pretty decent.

[Scrumhead]

Don't get Morgan being in there at all. Thought we'd moved on from there, he hasn't exactly pulled any trees up for a long time. Thomson would've been far more deserving of a call up.

I would have brought Thompson in ahead of Morgan on current form too. It's a touch unfair to dismiss Morgan that easily though.

Before what was a pretty major injury, he was clearly ahead of Billy. he rushed back for the RWC and probably set himself back by doing so.

His test record compares favourably to Billy's and at the moment he's competing with Beaumont and Hughes who, if we're honest, haven't shone so far this season and are both completely unproven at international level. He's a dark horse for sure, but he's a proven test calibre 8 who always seems to play better for England than he does in the AP. I imagine he'll also have had positive feedback from Lancaster too, so I think there's a good chance he's not done yet.

[Beasties]

I'm really not sure we need to be looking at Morgan at all now. Yes he was a viable option a couple of years ago when we basically had Easter and erm no one else of international quality. Easter himself was fortunate to have won so many caps by virtue of the fact that Eng has been a no 8 wasteland since the latter days of Lol. I'm not saying Morgan's a bad player just that in Billy, Hughes, Beaumont (whether as a young project or just a good current player) and indeed Thomson, we are well covered here now. Morgan's highlights reel might be impressive in part but it's not a long highlights reel in total. For me he's MIA for rather too many minutes in matches for my liking, considering the choices we have now.

[Puja]

I'm really not sure we need to be looking at Morgan at all now. Yes he was a viable option a couple of years ago when we basically had Easter and erm no one else of international quality. Easter himself was fortunate to have won so many caps by virtue of the fact that Eng has been a no 8 wasteland since the latter days of Lol. I'm not saying Morgan's a bad player just that in Billy, Hughes, Beaumont (whether as a young project or just a good current player) and indeed Thomson, we are well covered here now. Morgan's highlights reel might be impressive in part but it's not a long highlights reel in total. For me he's MIA for rather too many minutes in matches for my liking, considering the choices we have now.

I think we're being a bit keen to ditch Morgan given that we currently have one international-quality no 8. Hughes certainly isn't looking like one at the moment and Beaumont's promising without having demanded selection. You're right that Morgan is going missing far too much at the moment, but if Billy was to go down injured tomorrow, I'd be happier with Morgan stepping in than either of the other two options right now. And maybe Eddie can whip some consistent work ethic into him.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Just seen a clip of Jones from the news conference.
• He name checks Youngs, Attwood, Brookes, Wood (worryingly), Simpson, Cipriani, Burrell (worryingly) as unlucky to miss out.
• Cips is either first choice or not in the squad.
• Grappling was weak in Oz and they'll be having judo practice in camp.

No surprise regarding Cips. If Ford starts 10, Farrell is 12 with Goode on the bench. If Farrell is 10, a more conventional 12 will start with Ford on the bench.

If Cips starts 10, hell freezes over.

[WaspInWales]

I'm really not sure we need to be looking at Morgan at all now. Yes he was a viable option a couple of years ago when we basically had Easter and erm no one else of international quality. Easter himself was fortunate to have won so many caps by virtue of the fact that Eng has been a no 8 wasteland since the latter days of Lol. I'm not saying Morgan's a bad player just that in Billy, Hughes, Beaumont (whether as a young project or just a good current player) and indeed Thomson, we are well covered here now. Morgan's highlights reel might be impressive in part but it's not a long highlights reel in total. For me he's MIA for rather too many minutes in matches for my liking, considering the choices we have now.

I think we're being a bit keen to ditch Morgan given that we currently have one international-quality no 8. Hughes certainly isn't looking like one at the moment and Beaumont's promising without having demanded selection. You're right that Morgan is going missing far too much at the moment, but if Billy was to go down injured tomorrow, I'd be happier with Morgan stepping in than either of the other two options right now. And maybe Eddie can whip some consistent work ethic into him.

Puja

This.

[jngf]

I'm really not sure we need to be looking at Morgan at all now. Yes he was a viable option a couple of years ago when we basically had Easter and erm no one else of international quality. Easter himself was fortunate to have won so many caps by virtue of the fact that Eng has been a no 8 wasteland since the latter days of Lol. I'm not saying Morgan's a bad player just that in Billy, Hughes, Beaumont (whether as a young project or just a good current player) and indeed Thomson, we are well covered here now. Morgan's highlights reel might be impressive in part but it's not a long highlights reel in total. For me he's MIA for rather too many minutes in matches for my liking, considering the choices we have now.

I think we're being a bit keen to ditch Morgan given that we currently have one international-quality no 8. Hughes certainly isn't looking like one at the moment and Beaumont's promising without having demanded selection. You're right that Morgan is going missing far too much at the moment, but if Billy was to go down injured tomorrow, I'd be happier with Morgan stepping in than either of the other two options right now. And maybe Eddie can whip some consistent work ethic into him.

Puja

Agreed Puja, Morgan is a nice balance between the athleticism of Clifford (and Beaumont?) and the shear bulk and power of Billy and Hughes. He's faster than Billy and runs wider arcs, plus he has a bit more subtlety and dimensions to his game. At the moment he seems to be in a wilderness period from test rugby, rather like Andy Robinson experienced between '89 and '95. I'm pretty confident he has the talent to make a test comeback and give Jones a nice selection headache - as you alluded to Hughes and Beaumont are untried (though admittedly both have great potential).

[twitchy]

http://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/a ... gjam-70474

[Scrumhead]

http://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/a ... gjam-70474

Interesting article, but doesn't really tell us anything we don't already know about the situation at hooker.

In the build up to 2019, I think we need to pick a core group of 5 hookers at the most. Only 2 are going to feature in any given match and we don't want to be in a situation where we we're sharing out a handful of caps across several players. For me that's the 4 in the current EPS, possibly with Youngs as an experienced back-up. It's not that the outside shots like Walker and McGuigan should be dismissed altogether, but that's where the Saxons should come in IMO and if I were Thacker or Neild (both name-checked in the article), I'd concentrate on playing in the back row.

George seems to have been earmarked as Hartley's successor. If that is the case, he needs to get an increasing amount of game time (IIRC, he only has one start to date?). On the occasions where he starts, Hartley could be used to close out the game, but as he's not really an impact player off the bench, I'd actually use it as an opportunity to include the 3rd choice hooker - either Cowan-Dickie or Taylor to build their experience.

Assuming Hartley is fit for the SA game, he starts, but I'd give George a start against Fiji in the AIs and against Italy in the 6N (as well as maybe Scotland). Ideally we don't want both going with the Lions as the Argentina tour would be an ideal opportunity for George to start a run of games. If not, it's not a disaster as both Cowan-Dickie and Taylor should benefit.

Even if the pecking-order doesn't change, we could conceivably go to Japan with Hartley on c100 caps, George on c30 and Cowan-Dickie and Taylor on c10-15 caps.

[twitchy]

England hookers are like buses etc.

[Mikey Brown]

That's a very good point on Morgan/Jones actually. He seems just the kind of player that could still be refined in to a good international. It's really not that long ago we were talking about how lazy and inconsistent Billy was.

[skidger]

Report today saying that Itoje will probably play 7 and Robshaw 6. They have done this already late in games haven't they after substitutions? Or maybe i am imagining it.