2023 RWC Host Poll

[rowan]

Much has been made, also, of the South African government's involvement in enforcing the integration process, particularly via the quota systems, evidently much-despised by the established fan base, if comments on rugby chat forums are anything to go by. But these measures are proving successful and we are able to see the results for ourselves as the national and regional teams trot out with increasing numbers of black players. This is cause for celebration, not controversy. For much of its history rugby had remained primarily the domain of the privileged public schools class, New Zealand and France notwithstanding. But now in the professional age we are beginning to witness real change. The question is, does rugbydom want to reward South Africa for pushing through transformation, or punish it for the discontent it may have caused among the established player community? Does it want to provide encouragement for the game at such a delicate period in its development, and revive those wonderful scenes we witnessed at the end of the amateur era when Madiba raised the trophy, or drive in a wedge by pandering to the malcontents? South Africa has every advantage over Ireland as a potential Rugby World Cup host; in terms of player numbers, stadia, passion, tradition, climate, geography and so on; and thus a fourth straight rejection of the SARFU's bid could only be regarded as a snub.

[Mellsblue]

Yet another South African sporting farce. First the Commonwealth Games and now this.

South Africa's T20 Global League postponed until November 2018
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41576711

[rowan]

Cricket's not a sport; it's a boring passtime for rich white toffs. Anyway, nothing to do with rugby, and certainly not on a par with NZ being stripped of their part in hosting the 2003 RWC (only to be awarded the whole shebang 8 years later)

[Digby]

Yet another South African sporting farce. First the Commonwealth Games and now this.

South Africa's T20 Global League postponed until November 2018
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41576711

At least in sports the sort of governance one sees in SA can be labelled vaudeville, in more serious areas it is of course more serious.

[rowan]

Why, because it's under majority rule now? Is that what troubles you all so much?

NZ stripped of RWC co-hosting rights in 2003, gets the RWC all to itself in 2011. SA stages a magnificent FIFA World Cup, and also runs a successful international 7s rugby series, but apparently is 'unworthy' of hosting the RWC because the white toffs' boring passtime of cricket is in a bit of a mess, apparently...

[Digby]

I don't consider SA are a basket case as a consequence of majority rule so no, they're a basket case as they're just very badly run.

[rowan]

I don't believe that is the basis of your obsession. They run a perfectly successful annual 7s tournament. They hosted one of the most memorable RWCs ever. They are faced with difficulties distinct among major rugby playing nations and potential RWC hosts, of course, though in this respect they require World Rugby's support, not the cold shoulder.

[Digby]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest Ireland runs some perfectly successful annual tournaments too. Though for my preference the next WC and indeed the one after wouldn't go to Ireland or SA, I'd much prefer Italy and Argentina to be the next two but it doesn't look that likely, and as such aims are far from an obsession I'm far from being that fussed about it.

[rowan]

The subject is currently being discussed on an African rugby forum I visit sometimes and South Africa is the unanimous choice there.

[rowan]

Yeah, sounds like a fun place for a Rugby World Cup:

Derry City FC's League of Ireland Premier Division fixture against Cork City has been postponed for 24 hours due to a storm warning.

The game was due to kick off tomorrow night but will now take place at Turner's Cross on Tuesday evening.

An amber weather warning for wind has been issued for Northern Ireland with the the tail end of Hurricane Ophelia expected to hit tomorrow, Monday.

The Met Office has issued the warning which is in place on Monday from 3pm to 10pm.

Once the hurricane arrives following its journey across the Atlantic Ocean it is expected to bring winds of up to 70mph.

The whole of Ireland is expected to be affected by the storm with numerous precautions being taken in the South, which is expected to bear the brunt of the storm.

https://www.derrynow.com/soccer/derry-c ... ing/189678

[rowan]

Well, Ireland does have a few nice pubs apparently...

[rowan]

Rugby World Cup Board recommends South Africa as RWC 2023 host https://www.worldrugby.org/news/291551

New Zealand, one of seven countries with three votes - England, Scotland, Wales, Italy, Australia and Argentina the others - are now likely to support South Africa. It will be instructive if that is the general feeling amongst the unions with three votes.

tis a disappointing outcome for the IRFU, especially given Ireland came last in all but one of the hosting criteria. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3274808

[rowan]

I do feel for the Irish, but realistically I think the Celtic nations can only hope for co-host status in the modern era, and the IRFU would be best advised to aim for a share of 2027 with France as central host.

[Digby]

Ireland caught out by offering a lower tournament fee. Perhaps NZ weren't for once being dramatic in claiming 2011 was their last chance. What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me. Japan also proving a problem for Ireland in raising the risk of granting an event to a country without experience of hosting the event.

[Sandydragon]

Ireland caught out by offering a lower tournament fee. Perhaps NZ weren't for once being dramatic in claiming 2011 was their last chance. What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me. Japan also proving a problem for Ireland in raising the risk of granting an event to a country without experience of hosting the event.

Some joint bids are better than others, at least this in the mainland UK don't impose too much travelling on the supporters. The report did mention that all the bids were viable so its not a done deal yet. Whilst SA edged ahead in the criteria set, the final decision may take into account the desire to spread the love. I'm also wondering what the other home nations with their 3 votes apiece make of all this.

[Digby]

Ireland caught out by offering a lower tournament fee. Perhaps NZ weren't for once being dramatic in claiming 2011 was their last chance. What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me. Japan also proving a problem for Ireland in raising the risk of granting an event to a country without experience of hosting the event.

Some joint bids are better than others, at least this in the mainland UK don't impose too much travelling on the supporters. The report did mention that all the bids were viable so its not a done deal yet. Whilst SA edged ahead in the criteria set, the final decision may take into account the desire to spread the love. I'm also wondering what the other home nations with their 3 votes apiece make of all this.

I've no idea what the history is of backing the supposed lead candidate come the final vote.

[Sandydragon]

Ireland caught out by offering a lower tournament fee. Perhaps NZ weren't for once being dramatic in claiming 2011 was their last chance. What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me. Japan also proving a problem for Ireland in raising the risk of granting an event to a country without experience of hosting the event.

Some joint bids are better than others, at least this in the mainland UK don't impose too much travelling on the supporters. The report did mention that all the bids were viable so its not a done deal yet. Whilst SA edged ahead in the criteria set, the final decision may take into account the desire to spread the love. I'm also wondering what the other home nations with their 3 votes apiece make of all this.

I've no idea what the history is of backing the supposed lead candidate come the final vote.

This is supposedly a new process to make the whole thing transparent, so who knows? If a contender had been completely written off then I think it would be a hard case to make for them to host it. On the other hand, all bids were competitive and realistic and the margin of victory for the South Africans wasn't much. The final decision may go with the recommendation, but it equally may not. This hasn't done the Irish any favours though.

[Mellsblue]

Some joint bids are better than others, at least this in the mainland UK don't impose too much travelling on the supporters. The report did mention that all the bids were viable so its not a done deal yet. Whilst SA edged ahead in the criteria set, the final decision may take into account the desire to spread the love. I'm also wondering what the other home nations with their 3 votes apiece make of all this.

I've no idea what the history is of backing the supposed lead candidate come the final vote.

This is supposedly a new process to make the whole thing transparent, so who knows? If a contender had been completely written off then I think it would be a hard case to make for them to host it. On the other hand, all bids were competitive and realistic and the margin of victory for the South Africans wasn't much. The final decision may go with the recommendation, but it equally may not. This hasn't done the Irish any favours though.

According to the BBC, NZ had already stated they’d back the preferred bidder. Supposedly, most of the major players have intimated similar.

[Mellsblue]

What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me.

You don’t think this will end up as joint bid. Wales will host at least one knockout match even if the tournament does go to SA.

[Digby]

What I don't like about this is the risk we'll see joint bids, and joint bids just don't cut the mustard for me.

You don’t think this will end up as joint bid. Wales will host at least one knockout match even if the tournament does go to SA.

A good point well made

[rowan]

The Rugby World Cup Board has basically validated precisely the points I've been making about the respective bids. South Africa fared particularly strongly in terms of its rugby-purpose stadia, for instance; as I said it would. Nothing is confirmed yet, of course, but now I look at the extent of hostility I attracted on the FIRA forum for quite calmly expressing those views (and eventually being banned for arguing too much about this and one or two other matters - though I never insulted anybody). There was another forum I used briefly after that, and before discovering this one, which did more or less the same thing. But at the end of the day I was right and they were wrong; I was calm, respectful and open to the opinions of others, and it was they who were being bloody-minded, obstinate and unwilling to participate in constructive debate. This says a lot about rugby forum culture, I'm afraid.

[rowan]

Is there any indication they might expand to 24 teams in 2023? I wonder. This has been discussed informally by World Rugby, and I commented at the time that such a development would play into SA's hands, and disadvantage Ireland, in particular. France, I believe, will subsequently host 2027, and probably they only bid this time, so soon after their last turn, in order to strengthen their hand for the 11th edition. I'm still hopeful Italy could be a minor partner in co-hosting it. Traditionally the strength of French rugby is in the south, while in Italy it is distinctly in the north, so basically we're talking about two regions which border one another.

[rowan]

http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/wor ... igh-ground

[rowan]

The Kiwi view:

From a New Zealand point of view our board made a decision early on that if the process was seen to have worked well and been done fairly and professionally then it would be very hard not to vote the way of the recommendation,” Tew told the New Zealand Herald.

“While the scores are relatively close there was a clear margin. South Africa is the best candidate so we’ll be guided by the recommendation and vote accordingly.

“As a councilor I would like to think the recommendation will be a very strong lead for everyone sitting around that table. We all agreed a process and criteria and as far as I can tell it’s all been done very well, produced a result and we should all now vote for that but I’ll only be sitting there with New Zealand’s votes.”

Tew however, has urged the IRFU to bid again for 2027.

“They presented the way the tournament would work if it was allocated to Ireland very well. I’m not going to comment on what proposal would be better than the other. In 2003 New Zealand went through a very different process where we started off hosting a part of it and ended up hosting none. In 2005, when we went through the bid process, we were lucky enough to be successful,” he added.

“When you have three strong candidates, as we did for 2011, you’re going to have a disappointed group or two. One would hope they’d be keen to have a go in 2027. World Rugby is in a good position.”

http://sportlocker.ie/irelands-rugby-wo ... mmer-blow/

[Digby]

The Kiwi point of view is dependent on which one offers the most cash, though one does smile at them not returning their thanks to Ireland by voting for them in turn.