Ita - Eng Match Thread

[Banquo]

For the Ireland game will EJ have the bottle to start with the 2nd row and back row that finished the game (with Lawes and Beaumont on the bench)?

Dont know about bottle but Kruis and Launchbury starting makes sense, and plainly something needs to happen in the back row.

I've said before that I wouldnt play Itoje at 6 but i'm coming round to the view that he is so damn good I just want him in the side. He made half a dozen serious and effective interventions today and simply oozes quality.

Care must start at 9.

Agree regards Itoje. Though for all his effective interventions there was the missed tackle, penalty conceded and warming up just in a bib with, what can only be described as, budgie smuggler shorts

well yes, his first 5 minutes were a bit shyte, but thereafter was very good. I'd still want him at second row, frankly, but if it gets him a start I'll maybe settle for 6, though I do worry about his defence off a scrum.

[Banquo]

Christ that was tough to watch. Felt really sorry for Italy after Joseph's first. It seemed to take all the fight out of them.

Oh England.... So much of that was pitiful. Kruis good, BillyV had his moments. Thought Ford was virtually anonymous try apart and a few good kicks.

Gah!

Just how bloody deep does Ford sit!!!! Heck, one of Youngs passes died in the air then lamely bounced towards Ford ......

are you kidding?

[Banquo]

Descent 9 and, now this is slightly radical, a fecking 12 at 12!!!

Up the skill level from 6 to 8

thought BV looked ok frankly

[Oakboy]

Descent 9 and, now this is slightly radical, a fecking 12 at 12!!!

Up the skill level from 6 to 8

thought BV looked ok frankly

So did I, once Robshaw and Haskell had gone off. Billy will never be other than a big mobile lump, IMO, but he's an effective one in the right company.

[p/d]

are you kidding?

Again, I assume, you are reading that as a dig at Ford. When in fact I am passing comment on how we seem to be making Ford play in a style that negates everything that makes him special. Get him flat with quick ball and the backs will start to operate so much better. That and a descent 12.

[fivepointer]

Descent 9 and, now this is slightly radical, a fecking 12 at 12!!!

Up the skill level from 6 to 8

thought BV looked ok frankly

I thought he was our best forward along with Kruis. Dan Cole showed up well today which was good to see.

[Renniks]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

[Renniks]

Dan Cole showed up well today which was good to see.

Are the number of penalties he concedes too many for what he offers? I'd replace him with Brookes in a heartbeat

[Banquo]

are you kidding?

Again, I assume, you are reading that as a dig at Ford. When in fact I am passing comment on how we seem to be making Ford play in a style that negates everything that makes him special. Get him flat with quick ball and the backs will start to operate so much better. That and a descent 12.

well you did say wtf is he so deep, and then made the comment about the passing of Youngs, I'd have thought you could make the link between the two yourself.

and its DECENT, not descent.

[fivepointer]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

I rarely think Youngs looks competent in any situation.

[Banquo]

Descent 9 and, now this is slightly radical, a fecking 12 at 12!!!

Up the skill level from 6 to 8

thought BV looked ok frankly

So did I, once Robshaw and Haskell had gone off. Billy will never be other than a big mobile lump, IMO, but he's an effective one in the right company.

other than a big mobile lump who is good under the high ball, good at the breakdown, and has decent hands, he's not all that then

[Banquo]

thought BV looked ok frankly

So did I, once Robshaw and Haskell had gone off. Billy will never be other than a big mobile lump, IMO, but he's an effective one in the right company.

other than a big mobile lump who is good under the high ball, excellent at tidying crap ball at the base, good at the breakdown, and has decent hands, he's not all that then

[Oakboy]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

I rarely think Youngs looks competent in any situation.

Agreed. I don't think he should be in the 23. We have to risk starting a new SH from the bench at least.

[Len]

I've always thought Youngs runs hot and cold. I think Care has always been the better player.

[Banquo]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

I rarely think Youngs looks competent in any situation.

Agreed. I don't think he should be in the 23. We have to risk starting a new SH from the bench at least.

but who? Dan Robson, Cook?

[Oakboy]

So did I, once Robshaw and Haskell had gone off. Billy will never be other than a big mobile lump, IMO, but he's an effective one in the right company.

other than a big mobile lump who is good under the high ball, excellent at tidying crap ball at the base, good at the breakdown, and has decent hands, he's not all that then

That's what I said, isn't it?

[p/d]

are you kidding?

Again, I assume, you are reading that as a dig at Ford. When in fact I am passing comment on how we seem to be making Ford play in a style that negates everything that makes him special. Get him flat with quick ball and the backs will start to operate so much better. That and a descent 12.

well you did say wtf is he so deep, and then made the comment about the passing of Youngs, I'd have thought you could make the link between the two yourself.

and its DECENT, not descent.

So why is he standing so deep? I have tried but I cannot find a descent link

[Oakboy]

I rarely think Youngs looks competent in any situation.

Agreed. I don't think he should be in the 23. We have to risk starting a new SH from the bench at least.

but who? Dan Robson, Cook?

I'd put Robson on the bench with Care starting.

[Banquo]

Again, I assume, you are reading that as a dig at Ford. When in fact I am passing comment on how we seem to be making Ford play in a style that negates everything that makes him special. Get him flat with quick ball and the backs will start to operate so much better. That and a descent 12.

well you did say wtf is he so deep, and then made the comment about the passing of Youngs, I'd have thought you could make the link between the two yourself.

and its DECENT, not descent.

So why is he standing so deep? I have tried but I cannot find a descent link

because if he stood flat on the end of a two paces then a looper, he'd get murdered; plus eddie wants him to kick. The bouncing bombs today were hardly big passes to make anyway. He also likes to run a little with the ball to hold the defence, rather then being a pivot, and that's very hard when your nine does a bit of sideslip first.

[Renniks]

Robson's looking in decent form for Wasps today…

Oh, and Hughes - quite ridiculous

[Mikey Brown]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

I think you answered your own question there. We were in a great position when Watson stripped the ball from that Robshaw tackle on the left hand side. We had about 10 England attackers on the right and 10 Italian defenders to the left (where the play had just come from) guess which way he went?

Breakdown was a mess. Everybody wants to show they can pilfer the ball at every ruck, we just don't have the nous or the organisation/support for it. It just leaves us one man down where somebody has been blasted to the floor every time.

[Banquo]

other than a big mobile lump who is good under the high ball, excellent at tidying crap ball at the base, good at the breakdown, and has decent hands, he's not all that then

That's what I said, isn't it?

you stopped at big mobile lump (which at least has the benefit of being big and mobile) - there's a lot more to his game which you seem to miss

[Banquo]

Anyone think Youngs would have looked as competent as Care if he'd have had the last 20 minutes' breakdown to work with?

even when he had quick or solid ball, he seemed to make poor choices or poorly execute them

I think you answered your own question there. We were in a great position when Watson stripped the ball from that Robshaw tackle on the left hand side. We had about 10 England attackers on the right and 10 Italian defenders to the left (where the play had just come from) guess which way he went?

Breakdown was a mess. Everybody wants to show they can pilfer the ball at every ruck, we just don't have the nous or the organisation/support for it. It just leaves us one man down where somebody has been blasted to the floor every time.

It was worse than that at the breakdown- decision making and technique were of course shocking, but the workrate to support width or a half break was terrible, with players standing off and watching team mates surrounded by italians.

[Mikey Brown]

True on Ford too. If we want to just kick and defend play Farrell at 10 and have Ford off the bench, much as I think that goes against who holds all the talent.

We just don't seem to be able to align our selection and our tactics. Today would have been such a fantastic chance to look at Devoto; a 12 who can potentially be both the second distributor Farrell needs and the threat at the gain-line that Ford needs.

[Mikey Brown]

It was worse than that at the breakdown- decision making and technique were of course shocking, but the workrate to support width or a half break was terrible, with players standing off and watching team mates surrounded by italians.

It was just one issue. I'm sure we could all list 20 more. I'd love to know what Jones' plan is in this area.