RugbyRebels

TheDasher wrote:Yep diggers, we've definitely bottled it with Genge. I'd have 100% started him.

Love the idea of bringing Cokanasiga off the bench in the last 30 minutes to run riot, then if he does well I'd start him in the next game.

I suspect Shields has more to give and am willing to see him a few more times to let him prove it. Every time I've watched him for Wasps he's been diabolical, to be honest, but I thought he'd improved a tad in his last couple of England games.

Mikey Brown wrote:

TheDasher wrote:Yep diggers, we've definitely bottled it with Genge. I'd have 100% started him.

Love the idea of bringing Cokanasiga off the bench in the last 30 minutes to run riot, then if he does well I'd start him in the next game.

I suspect Shields has more to give and am willing to see him a few more times to let him prove it. Every time I've watched him for Wasps he's been diabolical, to be honest, but I thought he'd improved a tad in his last couple of England games.

I'd have thought you could apply the same logic to Genge and Cokanasiga to some extent.

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I think I've actually changed my mind. Since Hartley has been out of the side, we have lacked any real comedic relief among our ball carriers. Since we'd started winning again I'd been able to enjoy Hughes's incredible inability to learn how to carry/hold/protect the ball while skipping into contact, whereas watching Shields just bores me to tears. It's a tough one.

Ha. True. There is something entertaining about Hughes wandering upright into contact, looking surprised when stopped dead in his tracks and then trying to hand off his assailants like a overgrown child trying to wave away a wasp.

Beasties wrote:I'm actually far less interested in the Shields debate than the fact that we might just get Robson and BigJoe onto the pitch for some significant gametime. It's still Eddie though so it's far from given.

Stom wrote:

Timbo wrote:Shields is far from crap. You guys really need to bin this nonsense off.

OK, let's put it this way...

Since Shields arrived in England, his form has been utter balls, suggesting he may actually be crap. Let's wait and see, but there is no reason for him to be in the England squad on the form he has been showing, which has, at best, been OK. Not enough to get selected for England.

A flanker who has been performing well is, for example, Jack Clifford. Who not only provides the same lineout option as Shields, but offers form over a longer period of time, international captaincy experience (at the u20s, mind), and pace to burn. Plus the breakdown and link skills to play across the backrow.

Beasties wrote:I'm actually far less interested in the Shields debate than the fact that we might just get Robson and BigJoe onto the pitch for some significant gametime. It's still Eddie though so it's far from given.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I think I've actually changed my mind. Since Hartley has been out of the side, we have lacked any real comedic relief among our ball carriers. Since we'd started winning again I'd been able to enjoy Hughes's incredible inability to learn how to carry/hold/protect the ball while skipping into contact, whereas watching Shields just bores me to tears. It's a tough one.

Ha. True. There is something entertaining about Hughes wandering upright into contact, looking surprised when stopped dead in his tracks and then trying to hand off his assailants like a overgrown child trying to wave away a wasp.

I've actually just given away that I'm on my phone at work with laughing at that.



Puja

Stom wrote:

Timbo wrote:Shields is far from crap. You guys really need to bin this nonsense off.

OK, let's put it this way...

Since Shields arrived in England, his form has been utter balls, suggesting he may actually be crap. Let's wait and see, but there is no reason for him to be in the England squad on the form he has been showing, which has, at best, been OK. Not enough to get selected for England.

A flanker who has been performing well is, for example, Jack Clifford. Who not only provides the same lineout option as Shields, but offers form over a longer period of time, international captaincy experience (at the u20s, mind), and pace to burn. Plus the breakdown and link skills to play across the backrow.

Timbo wrote:

Stom wrote:

Timbo wrote:Shields is far from crap. You guys really need to bin this nonsense off.

OK, let's put it this way...

Since Shields arrived in England, his form has been utter balls, suggesting he may actually be crap. Let's wait and see, but there is no reason for him to be in the England squad on the form he has been showing, which has, at best, been OK. Not enough to get selected for England.

A flanker who has been performing well is, for example, Jack Clifford. Who not only provides the same lineout option as Shields, but offers form over a longer period of time, international captaincy experience (at the u20s, mind), and pace to burn. Plus the breakdown and link skills to play across the backrow.

The Wasps stuff aside, which is difficult to judge given their poor form, I think he’s been somewhere between pretty decent-good in an england jersey. He had a rough half in the first test of the Autumn against SAfrica, but then played well against NZ and Oz.

I think he’s a good flanker that looks comfortably international standard. I also think he’s being judged by slightly different standards to his backrow competition- Clifford, for eg, has struggled to an extent when given chances.

Mikey Brown wrote:Henry Slade and Manu Tuilagi combined - five passes in two games.

Mikey Brown wrote:Henry Slade and Manu Tuilagi combined - five passes in two games.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Henry Slade and Manu Tuilagi combined - five passes in two games.

Does that include the one Chris Ashton binned against France?

Not too bothered by that stat actually - both have been used so far as runners or as dummy options to be bypassed for the back three. I'd like to hope there'll be more focus on playing the ball through Slade this week, given Wales will be watching for other things.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Henry Slade and Manu Tuilagi combined - five passes in two games.

Does that include the one Chris Ashton binned against France?

Not too bothered by that stat actually - both have been used so far as runners or as dummy options to be bypassed for the back three. I'd like to hope there'll be more focus on playing the ball through Slade this week, given Wales will be watching for other things.

Puja

Plus we’ve pretty much kicked it all Championship.

Stom wrote:

Timbo wrote:

Stom wrote:
OK, let's put it this way...

Since Shields arrived in England, his form has been utter balls, suggesting he may actually be crap. Let's wait and see, but there is no reason for him to be in the England squad on the form he has been showing, which has, at best, been OK. Not enough to get selected for England.

A flanker who has been performing well is, for example, Jack Clifford. Who not only provides the same lineout option as Shields, but offers form over a longer period of time, international captaincy experience (at the u20s, mind), and pace to burn. Plus the breakdown and link skills to play across the backrow.

The Wasps stuff aside, which is difficult to judge given their poor form, I think he’s been somewhere between pretty decent-good in an england jersey. He had a rough half in the first test of the Autumn against SAfrica, but then played well against NZ and Oz.

I think he’s a good flanker that looks comfortably international standard. I also think he’s being judged by slightly different standards to his backrow competition- Clifford, for eg, has struggled to an extent when given chances.

We're going to have to disagree then, as he looked poor to meh for England at best.

Does anyone have the ruck marks for those games? As I remember them being grim reading for Mr. Shields. And his other stats don't say much. He was never close to top tacklers, he doesn't carry much...At least he doesn't concede many pens, but that's it, it seems.

It's just that, on form, he's nowhere near the England team.

Oakboy wrote:

Stom wrote:

Timbo wrote:
The Wasps stuff aside, which is difficult to judge given their poor form, I think he’s been somewhere between pretty decent-good in an england jersey. He had a rough half in the first test of the Autumn against SAfrica, but then played well against NZ and Oz.

I think he’s a good flanker that looks comfortably international standard. I also think he’s being judged by slightly different standards to his backrow competition- Clifford, for eg, has struggled to an extent when given chances.

We're going to have to disagree then, as he looked poor to meh for England at best.

Does anyone have the ruck marks for those games? As I remember them being grim reading for Mr. Shields. And his other stats don't say much. He was never close to top tacklers, he doesn't carry much...At least he doesn't concede many pens, but that's it, it seems.

It's just that, on form, he's nowhere near the England team.

I'd not be at all surprised if Shields never makes the squad after Jones is replaced. Apart from Leicester, I'd reckon just about every club has a better option. It's pure SH bullshit to rate him as adequate. I've read that he's good on the training pitch so maybe the one part of him that is up to reputation is his mouth. It infuriates me that he gets in ahead of Armand. Robshaw is reportedly back on form. I'd even rather have Wood. Rhodes, Mercer, Clifford, t'other Curry . . . there's a fair list.